Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[SkewedView]

Police can say whatever they want when questioning someone in connection with a brutal murder. The witness is supposed to tell the truth - something Knox was incapable of doing after 2 hours of questioning.

As programmers say: Garbage in, garbage out. Lying by LE during questioning endangers the innocent without appreciably increasing the rate of success with the guilty, and also encourages a culture in many LE depts. that is lax with the truth in other venues (reports, testimony), thus why there are a small but growing number of states and nations that have banned this practice.

 

[darnudes]

Yes, but turnabout is fair play. We heard over and over that Massei ruled her a convicted criminal. So now Hellman has ruled her an acquitted one.:innocent:

Except that Knox is still a convicted criminal, remember the pesky lying charges - so not innocent of them.

 

[darnudes]

BBM. With all due respect, those of us that didn't respect the verdict of the first trial should probably be careful not to criticize others for having the same stance on the appeals verdict, IMO.

See, this is what I really respect about you, your ability to see both sides and to at least call it fairly - thank you

 

[sherlockh]

Both murdered and got away with it? Why did the appellate court not see it that way? Judge Hellman said the evidence is not there. What is your confidence based on? Intuition? The Anthony case is vastly different from this case.

Right. There are a gazillion posts in this thread thrashing the conclusions of judges like Matteini, Micheli, and Massei. Posters were told that relating to authority makes a weak argument. And now this? Understandable but extremely weak. Like I said, to me there is not much difference between the CA and this case. Very similar.

 

[SkewedView]

Except that Knox is still a convicted criminal, remember the pesky lying charges - so not innocent of them.

Keep in mind that no other western nation accepts the criminalization of slander, for good reason. In the courts of the US and the members of the EU in compliance with the EU Human Rights Charter, she would be found liable in a civil matter, not a convicted criminal.

 

[sherlockh]

Keep in mind that no other western nation accepts the criminalization of slander, for good reason. In the courts of the US and the members of the EU in compliance with the EU Human Rights Charter, she would be found liable in a civil matter, not a convicted criminal.

In another country she would have been found guilty of obstruction of justice. JMO.

 

[Katana]

I read Lumumba's statements regarding Amanda and it does appear he was having issues with her. It was his account of her after the murder but, I think he is being honest and I would assume he shared his thoughts to others before any of this came about.

I was interested to hear Dr Glass' analysis of AK on WS radio tonight and I was not very impressed. Basically, she said AK's demeanor has been consistant with that of a typical college student abroad. To me AK is anything but, typical and I am surprised that is how even the Dr explained her behavior. People who believe she is innocent will either make excuses for her or just don't see her behavioral quirks I suppose.

I don't think this is the forum to discuss this in so I apologize but, this is the only forum I belong to. I am always interested in the human behavior aspect of these cases. I really believe Amanda's uniqueness within her demeanor, actions and statements is why she ended up convicted in the first place. I'm not saying it was right, but I can see why both views of guilt vs innocence exists.

 

[Murdock]

In another country she would have been found guilty of obstruction of justice. JMO.

Didn't she ask for an attorney at one point and was denied one, (or is that an untrue rumor - I don't know this case as well as most of you)?

If the PL story happened after the turned down attorney request, I don't think she would have been found guilty for obstruction, at least not in the US. It would have been thrown out, and not allowed to be presented to a jury.

 

[otto]

Wow - close to the most insenstive comment I've ever seen on Websleuths, a victims advocate site.

That shocked me too. Over 40 injuries, but only murdered once.

 

[angeleleven]

Geraldo at Large (after commercial) is about to compare AK to Casey Anthony in regards to both pretty girls winning.

 

[otto]

Because he had an alibi.

How did she know about his alibi? He told her that there were no customers and that she didn't need to come to work.

 

[otto]

Did Lumumba fire AK from her waitress job before the murder occurred for making sexual advances to customers? I just heard this and wasn't sure if it was true? I thought she was supposed to work the night of the murder and got a text to not come in.

She was reprimanded by Patrick for flirting or socializing rather than working. The day she met Sollecito, he went to the bar and she was flirting with him at work. Then she went home with him. She may have been demoted to handing out fliers rather than serving customers.

 

[Madeleine74]

There is 1 murder victim and 2 wrongfully accused, charged, convicted, and now (finally) overturned victims. 1 murderer in jail. Regardless of what you personally believe that is the legal standing.

Total victims of ILE, a corrupt prosecutor, and Rudy Guede = 3 + all the family members.

And that's a fact, Jack.

 

[Steft50]

There is 1 murder victim and 2 wrongfully accused, charged, convicted, and now (finally) overturned victims. 1 murderer in jail. Regardless of what you personally believe that is the legal standing.

Total victims of ILE, a corrupt prosecutor, and Rudy Guede = 3 + all the family members.

And that's a fact, Jack.

BBM
Perhaps that should read "a convicted criminal corrupt prosecutor" since that is a more accurate view and something some tend to disregard, ignore or forget.

 

[otto]

Didn't she ask for an attorney at one point and was denied one, (or is that an untrue rumor - I don't know this case as well as most of you)?

If the PL story happened after the turned down attorney request, I don't think she would have been found guilty for obstruction, at least not in the US. It would have been thrown out, and not allowed to be presented to a jury.

Witnesses aren't entitled to lawyers. Knox was a witness when she accused Patrick of rape and murder.

 

[Murdock]

Witnesses aren't entitled to lawyers. Knox was a witness when she accused Patrick of rape and murder.

So when does one go from being a witness to being a suspect? I suppose it's a fine line. I remember there was controversy about some of the police interviews in the Anthony case. It just seems like like it would real convenient for a cop to get a "witness" to say something incriminating and then claim "well, they were only a witness, they didn't need a lawyer."

So did she ask for a lawyer before the PL story, or after, or not at all?

 

[otto]

There is 1 murder victim and 2 wrongfully accused, charged, convicted, and now (finally) overturned victims. 1 murderer in jail. Regardless of what you personally believe that is the legal standing.

Total victims of ILE, a corrupt prosecutor, and Rudy Guede = 3 + all the family members.

And that's a fact, Jack.

here were two prosecutors in charge of the case. Why is one held responsible for all of their decisions?

 

[otto]

So when does one go from being a witness to being a suspect? I suppose it's a fine line. I remember there was controversy about some of the police interviews in the Anthony case. It just seems like like it would real convenient for a cop to get a "witness" to say something incriminating and then claim "well, they were only a witness, they didn't need a lawyer."

So did she ask for a lawyer before the PL story, or after, or not at all?

Like I said, she made the statements about Patrick as a witness and witnesses do not have lawyers while giving a statement to police.

Knox became a suspect after accusing Patrick. Questioning began at 11:30 PM and by 1:30 AM she had accusd Patrick. The questioning stopped. She was then asked to review and sign her statement at 1:45 AM (written in English). She was taken to a holding cell. She later demanded to be heard, so Mignini, the prosecutor on call, had to come to the police station in the middle of the night. She repeated her allegations against Patrick and was then asked to sign that statement at 5:30 AM. She was then returned to the holding cell. The following day, she asked for pen and paper and confirmed her statements against Patrick.

 

[Murdock]

Like I said, she made the statements about Patrick as a witness and witnesses do not have lawyers while giving a statement to police.

Knox became a suspect after accusing Patrick. Questioning began at 11:30 PM and by 1:30 AM she had accusd Patrick. The questioning stopped. She was then asked to review and sign her statement at 1:45 AM (written in English). She was taken to a holding cell. She later demanded to be heard, so Mignini, the prosecutor on call, had to come to the police station in the middle of the night. She repeated her allegations against Patrick and was then asked to sign that statement at 5:30 AM. She was then returned to the holding cell. The following day, she asked for pen and paper and confirmed her statements against Patrick.

If I were called into a police station at 11:30 at night I would want a lawyer with me. But that still doesn't answer my question - did she ask for a lawyer before the incriminating PL story, or not? TIA

 

[otto]

If I were called into a police station at 11:30 at night I would want a lawyer with me. But that still doesn't answer my question - did she ask for a lawyer before the incriminating PL story, or not? TIA

She wasn't called to the station at 11:30. Sollecito was asked to come in at 10 and answer a few questions. They arrived around 10:30. She tagged along. That's when she did the cartwheels and splits ... and was told to cut it out by the officers. Sollecito was proven to be a liar and admitted to police that during previous statements he had told police a "load of rubbish". He stated that he could not confirm that Knox was with him on the night of the murder. Since Knox was already at the police headquarters, they asked her to answer some questions as well. Within two hours, with a translator during the last hour, she accused Patrick. She didn't speak enough Italian to understand anything that was said in the first hour.

This case has been ongoing for four years. It's interesting that people have opinions about the verdict but aren't really familiar with the case.