Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #1

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #801
Heres a compilation of much of AJ testimony from Thursday. I have added a few things that jumped out at me. Can someone tell me if I have overlooked anything or misterpreted something please?

In regard to the Thursday ? pictures taken by AJ . Both doors are open. Front seats
still intact. Rear view mirror still in its proper place. VIN still in place. Not a drop of blood visible not even on the tarpaulin that is spread out under the truck (where theoretically blood might have been dripping.)

(By the way there's also no sign, in the background, of chopped vehicles anywhere, either, which also looks very clean. )

If the truck looked all pristine and squeaky clean like that on the previous day ( according to AJ) and still looked like that on Thursday, then when, where, why and by whom did the truck become stripped and trashed as per the police photos which, one presumes, were taken on Sunday?

Apparently only DM's fingerprints were found on it when police found it, so whoever cleaned it was very careful except they missed wiping DM's fingerprints it would seem.

On the Weds/Thursday where's any indication of huge amounts of blood leaking down through the floor from a person who has been mortally wounded and apparently died there some 30 or so hours earlier. There should be some indications of up to 5 liters or more of blood somewhere if he bled out in the vehicle ( and dripped through the chassis) - not just a tiny dab on the dashboard. In the opening statements the prosecutor said there was "blood all over the interior." If so it was all masterfully tidied up by Wednesday when A.Jennings first noticed it and it remained absolutely pristine by Thursday for the photos.

So presumably we are meant to understand that all this reconstruction and cleanup of the truck took place on Tuesday at the hands of the two accused.

So A.Jennings's testimony indicates that:

Everybody told to stay home from work on Tuesday so he first noticed the Ram truck on Wednesday, May 8 and felt uncomfortable about it because of its resemblance to the missing Bosma truck. Something about the chrome configuration caught his eye. He testified that the truck's
interior was stripped, except for the rear seat, and it sat on a green tarp. No license plates.

By Thursday , May 9th, his continuing discomfort led him to let himself into the hangar early - where he was alone to take pictures (only he and his SIL were at the building that day) and where he surreptitiously took pictures of the truck and its VIN number, then called and reported the truck's VIN number, asking if it was the Bosma vehicle. They called back to say it was. He wouldn't give
them the truck location. It's a bit unclear when he sent them the pictures presented in evidence, but presumably he did that on Thursday, too.

That Thursday night he quarreled with his SIL SS, long time MillardAir employee and SS got angry with him and went home.

All the neighbors but one have said they heard the big trailer backing into the Mom's driveway on Thursday night and that's where it was on Friday morning. This matches Jenning's testimony that on
Friday morning when he gets to work, the truck and the trailer are gone.

Further on Friday A. Jennings testified that he was sent to the hardware store and when he returned an hour later the the police had been and gone. According to Jennings testimony, DM and SS came out onto the floor. His SIL gave him a "funny look" and soon after AJ was fired by DM. Later in the day DM was arrested by the police.

By the time police found the Bosma truck inside the trailer on Sunday, May 12, it had somehow became all trashed and covered with blood and gunshot residue as per the pictures submitted in evidence. When did that happen? DM was in jail so who ripped apart the vehicle? At the very least,
wouldn't one or another of those alert neighbors seen or heard something?

1. In the photo that AJ took, I don't think it is clear that there are front seats present. The photo is very dark, the doors are open, and the things you are seeing as 'seats' or 'headrests' could very well be something in the background, not inside the truck, or even reflections of something else in the hangar. After all, AJ stated that when he first saw the truck, the carpet (or did he say floor?) and seats were removed. So if he then took a photograph a day later and the seats were suddenly intact, that would be ridiculous.

2. Where in the opening remarks does it say "opening statements the prosecutor said there was "blood all over the interior."" I read and heard in the opening statement, "Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder (front or rear?)."

3. Where is it stated that there should have been "huge amounts of blood leaking down through the floor from a person who has been mortally wounded and apparently died there some 30 or so hours earlier. There should be some indications of up to 5 liters or more of blood somewhere if he bled out in the vehicle ( and dripped through the chassis)"; what I read and heard in the opening statement was, "Tim Bosma’s blood was also found in various areas on the undercarriage of the truck." It did not specify quantities. All they need is a few drops, enough to test positive as a match to TB.

They don't require gallons of blood to be present to prove that this happened, nor at whose hands.

Just as a note, the judge did indicate during his opening remarks that circumstantial evidence and direct evidence can be relied upon equally, with neither being considered better than the other, with all of the evidence to be treated all together as a whole, using the jurors' common sense, once all of the evidence has been submitted.
 
  • #802
  • #803
Perhaps some of you 'truck guys' can help with this question I have.

In the exhibits shown (photographs) of the truck on the first day of the trial, (see below), I believe it clearly shows a chrome rim on the wheel wells (sorry if that is not what they're called), whereas on the truck photo taken by AJ in the hangar, and the truck shown on the trailer after police got it, seem to show no chrome there. Am I seeing things? Sun reflection vs no reflection?

Also, the truck on the trailer almost looks like it has no rear lights/plastic things for the lights.. it looks all rusty or is it dirty???

attachment.php

Exhibit 2, Image 3

attachment.php

Exhibit 2, Image 9

attachment.php
 

Attachments

  • Exhibit2 Image3 Truck pic.jpg
    Exhibit2 Image3 Truck pic.jpg
    129.9 KB · Views: 86
  • Exhibit2 Image9 Truck on Trailer at Kleinberg.jpg
    Exhibit2 Image9 Truck on Trailer at Kleinberg.jpg
    149.7 KB · Views: 89
  • TB trk on tarp in hangar.jpg
    TB trk on tarp in hangar.jpg
    203.3 KB · Views: 88
  • #804
We already discussed this and whether DM may have had a sleep over at MS's house. I guess we don't know where DM's phone was in the morning, but since they were comparing where the phones were, if it was in Oakville and could be proven, I would think they would have testified to that. All we know about DM's is that it was in Etobicoke late afternoon and went to Oakville that night. Was DM at the hangar throughout that day? Did anyone ask AJ if he was there and what time?

No one knows about the night before. That has not been covered. There has been one week of trial.
 
  • #805
Perhaps some of you 'truck guys' can help with this question I have.

In the exhibits shown (photographs) of the truck on the first day of the trial, (see below), I believe it clearly shows a chrome rim on the wheel wells (sorry if that is not what they're called), whereas on the truck photo taken by AJ in the hangar, and the truck shown on the trailer after police got it, seem to show no chrome there. Am I seeing things? Sun reflection vs no reflection?

Also, the truck on the trailer almost looks like it has no rear lights/plastic things for the lights.. it looks all rusty or is it dirty???

Tail lights , wheel opening moldings (chrome trim) have been removed prior to painting.

Often headlights , grill , bumpers , are removed too.
 
  • #806
Yes it looks like the chrome is painted black.
 
  • #807
Did you end up going to court on Thursday matou? Are you going tomorrow?

No I didn't go. Won't be going to this trial at all. Only reading twitter, reading and posting on here.
 
  • #808
Maybe DM was picking MS up for "work" in the morning and heading to the hanger. DM lived somewhere else too cause there's mention of a room mate so I'm guessing he lived in Etobicoke sometimes too


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Maybe the room mate is female and CN?
 
  • #809
Tail lights , wheel opening moldings (chrome trim) have been removed prior to painting.

Often headlights , grill , bumpers , are removed too.

Thank you so much Arnie!
 
  • #810
This week in court will run from Monday to Friday because Monday the 15th is a holiday (Family Day). So 5 full days of testimony, hopefully.

Apologies if this was already corrected.. Judge said on Day#1 that due to the 15th being a holiday here, Court will sit on the Friday of the same week, so next Friday, Feb.19th; this week will be as per the usual 4-day week for this trial.

Also, no Court at all during the week of March Break (Mar 14-18), so we will be able to get *some* work done at least in mid-March!
 
  • #811
Perhaps some of you 'truck guys' can help with this question I have.

In the exhibits shown (photographs) of the truck on the first day of the trial, (see below), I believe it clearly shows a chrome rim on the wheel wells (sorry if that is not what they're called), whereas on the truck photo taken by AJ in the hangar, and the truck shown on the trailer after police got it, seem to show no chrome there. Am I seeing things? Sun reflection vs no reflection?

Also, the truck on the trailer almost looks like it has no rear lights/plastic things for the lights.. it looks all rusty or is it dirty???



https://twitter.com/AnnB03/lists/tim-bosma-trial

attachment.php

Exhibit 2, Image 3

attachment.php

Exhibit 2, Image 9

attachment.php

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 4. Feb.
Jennings said there were no plates on the truck. @CHCHNews #Bosma
r
Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 4. Feb.
"Seats wet out of it...Sears, floor, everything was out of it...Bench seat," recalls Jennings. "No plate." #MillardSmich

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 4. Feb.
Interior was "out"of the truck. Only the back bench seat was still inside. No plates. #Bosma

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 4. Feb.
Jennings said the seats in front were taken out of the truck. The back seat was still in tact. @CHCHNews


Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 4. Feb.
Next day Jennings says he walked around and looked T truck without touching it. Says #Millard told his SIL it was bought in Kitchener.

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 4. Feb.
Shane told Jennings that truck was sold to Millard from someone in Cambridge @CHCHNews

Nicole Martin ‏@nmartinCHCH 4. Feb.
Jennings said he stayed away from the truck he said he was "uncomfortable" around it. The interior torn out @CHCHNews

Mark Carcasole ‏@MarkCarcGlobal 4. Feb.
About the truck, Jennings notes "the interior was out." Says he stayed away from the truck all day. Made him "uncomfortable." #MillardSmich

Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 4. Feb.
May 8, Jennings sees a Dodge pick-up in Millard hangar on a green tarp. Had chrome running boards like #Bosma truck in news.

Adam Carter ‏@AdamCarterCBC 4. Feb.
“My exact words to myself were, ‘Oh my God, could that be the truck?’” Jennings says #HamOnt #TimBosma

-.-.-.-

I see the truck dirty/dusty (on the trailer) and I can't see the chrome lining, but only tracks where they were before.
 
  • #812
You can see a smidge of the chrome running board in the picture on the tarp, obscured by the door being open. It looks like the wheel well chrome trim has been painted black or removed.
 
  • #813
You can see a smidge of the chrome running board in the picture on the tarp, obscured by the door being open. It looks like the wheel well chrome trim has been painted black or removed.

Yes...the chrome running board is definitely there. It is interesting that it appears the chrome on the wheel wells were painted black and there are two cans of spray paint...one closer to the front and one closer to the middle/rear of the truck.
 
  • #814
Perhaps some of you 'truck guys' can help with this question I have.

In the exhibits shown (photographs) of the truck on the first day of the trial, (see below), I believe it clearly shows a chrome rim on the wheel wells (sorry if that is not what they're called), whereas on the truck photo taken by AJ in the hangar, and the truck shown on the trailer after police got it, seem to show no chrome there. Am I seeing things? Sun reflection vs no reflection?

Also, the truck on the trailer almost looks like it has no rear lights/plastic things for the lights.. it looks all rusty or is it dirty???

attachment.php

Exhibit 2, Image 3

attachment.php

Exhibit 2, Image 9

attachment.php

Great observations.

The chrome accent around the wheel wells have been removed - you can see rust/rub marks where they used to be.

The tail lights have been removed.

Could be to sell for parts - as per one theory of what the truck was to be used for.

Could be for the purpose of painting it, as Arnie suggested - those things are done to prep a truck for painting.
 
  • #815
molly hayes ‏@mollyhayes 2 Std.Vor 2 Stunden
Back in court today for #Bosma trial. Igor Tumenanko back on the stand. He took 2 men (one, Mark Smich) for a truck test drive on May 5.


Susan Clairmont ‏@susanclairmont 2 Std.Vor 2 Stunden
Back to the Tim #Bosma murder trial. Igor Tumanenko, who took Mark #Smich & a tall guy for a test drive of his truck, still on the stand.

Yes, I know: it's not the thread for trial day 5.

Re the identification of DM and police uplining or not, seemingly it's missing in the mind of others except WSers too and the news people became cautious.
 
  • #816
Unless there are phone records prior to the 7:34(?) am that show where his phone was. Maybe we just aren't privy to them yet.

I'm surprised they did not provide phone records to the burner phone being on the test drive with IGOR the Sunday before..as the burner phone did call him.
 
  • #817
Is there a thread for this morning open?
So begins the new week folks!
 
  • #818
Day 5 is ready to go but not opened yet. After reading through the weekend's musings, I think we definitely need some new information from the trial. I think we've chewed over what we have as much as we are going to be able to. It's like doing a jigsaw puzzle with only a few pieces. We think it's a horse but maybe it is a dog? :D
 
  • #819
Ok...just saw this photo for the first time...the close up of where Tim's phone was found. So far I had only seen the one with the evidence tag showing the phone up against the fence. The close up (Picture 5 8E) shows that the phone was found INSIDE the fence line. That would take all of my theories about them stopping here out of play and opens up the strong possibiliy that the phone was thrown from a moving vehicle and that they didn't actually stop at Kemira. MOO

http://www.scribd.com/doc/297985453/Bosma-phone-evidence
 
  • #820
1. In the photo that AJ took, I don't think it is clear that there are front seats present. The photo is very dark, the doors are open, and the things you are seeing as 'seats' or 'headrests' could very well be something in the background, not inside the truck, or even reflections of something else in the hangar. After all, AJ stated that when he first saw the truck, the carpet (or did he say floor?) and seats were removed. So if he then took a photograph a day later and the seats were suddenly intact, that would be ridiculous.

Yes it's possible, but it looks like there is something there that look like seats to me. It's a shame AJ didnt show the interior, or maybe he did and those pics weren't shown via reporters on Thursday.

2. Where in the opening remarks does it say "opening statements the prosecutor said there was "blood all over the interior."" I read and heard in the opening statement, "Further forensic examination found the blood DNA of Tim Bosma on the inside of the truck in various areas, including the inside rear passenger door; rear passenger armrest; around the glove box; and front passenger cup holder (front or rear?)."

Yes by blood all over the interior I mean that it was in various places, including what was said to be on the undercarriage.

3. Where is it stated that there should have been "huge amounts of blood leaking down through the floor from a person who has been mortally wounded and apparently died there some 30 or so hours earlier. There should be some indications of up to 5 liters or more of blood somewhere if he bled out in the vehicle ( and dripped through the chassis)"; what I read and heard in the opening statement was, "Tim Bosma’s blood was also found in various areas on the undercarriage of the truck." It did not specify quantities. All they need is a few drops, enough to test positive as a match to TB.

That is what my post said. I am basically saying that if, as suggested, blood had seeped down to undercarriage it would suggest a large amount of blood. IMO I realize that only a few drops are need but when we are told that blood was in various places inside the truck and also on the undercarriage it implies there was more than a few drops. IMO.

They don't require gallons of blood to be present to prove that this happened, nor at whose hands.

I realize that, I am going by what we have been told, and I am finding some things that are a little hazy.

Just as a note, the judge did indicate during his opening remarks that circumstantial evidence and direct evidence can be relied upon equally, with neither being considered better than the other, with all of the evidence to be treated all together as a whole, using the jurors' common sense, once all of the evidence has been submitted.

Yes, so it would be a good idea, in my opinion, for jurors to look at everything that is presented and not miss anything.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
82
Guests online
2,699
Total visitors
2,781

Forum statistics

Threads
633,017
Messages
18,634,962
Members
243,378
Latest member
zwolf4
Back
Top