Bosma Murder Trial - Weekend Discussion #5

[ArianeEmory]

Honestly, my feeling has always been that if they really thought there was blood on that board, they would have covered it up before carrying it past the media. They've been extremely circumspect with other evidence.

And I'm speaking as someone who badly wanted that day's farm search to turn up clues to Laura's fate.

 

[Massasauga Rattler]

Personally............ I just can't imagine that the two would have power-washed the blood from the truck while INside the hangar. Maybe I am mistaken, but if it were me, I would be very fearful that the red staining would be terribly difficult to get out of a concrete floor. From pics I have seen of the hangar, it seems very clean, almost pristine.. although that would be difficult I suppose, if there were engines being taken apart and such in there?

Even if the concrete floors of the hangar were polished, there could be little nicks and grooves where blood would surely collect and be hard to remove/notice? Can you imagine AJ and SS coming in on the Wednesday and finding pink concrete floors, along with a truck looking like one that was plastered all over the news?

If they power-washed the interior of the truck, which I'm sure they must have, based on the blood evidence, where did they do it? It would have had to have a good strong water supply, I would imagine, for the pressure to be any good? And I suppose if they had a gas pressure washer, they would not have required electricity. Could they have done it at the farm? It would obviously be on well water, but would well water withstand that type of use?

The blood that was found in that little screwhole in the floor of the truck... they did not mention whether it was mixed with water/soap... would it still have been possible to get a good DNA sample from it if it had been watered down with a pressure washer?

Most concrete floors in areas like a hangar are clear coated with a polyurethane of similar type polymer. That keeps stains from grease, oil, and other liquids from penetrating the concrete. Blood would not penetrate through and would simply wash down the drain. As for any cracks or crevasses, there would be some much other stuff in there, like grease, oil, and dirt, that dried blood (which dries rusty brownish BTW) would not be noticed by the casual observer.

 

[matou]

IMO I don't think DM cared where the truck was hosed down. He was getting it painted black via a friend and it was his apparent plan to use it. JMO

 

[LibTech]

I came across this post by cansleuther while reading some older threads.

http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...rd-Preliminary-Trial-Begins-04-Jan-2016/page2

cansleuther
The preliminary hearing for the WM case is at the 2201 Finch Ave W courthouse, but today Millard's name appeared on the docket for the courthouse at 361 University Ave - along with another familiar name.

cansleuther
It can't be a lawsuit - it's listed under the Superior Court of Justice criminal court, not civil court. Only indictable offences are heard in criminal court.

I don't think we've figured this one out. Is DM involved in another criminal case? Has anyone ever posted a picture of MW?

 

[ADAWG]

I just can't help but keep thinking is how DM defense can play this. I mean are they going to say it wasn't his intention butt he's such a loyal friend he'd offer up the Eliminator, hangar, his farm, his trailer, park it in his moms driveway, use his gf as attempt to escrow and so on


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[deugirtni]

Honestly, my feeling has always been that if they really thought there was blood on that board, they would have covered it up before carrying it past the media. They've been extremely circumspect with other evidence.

And I'm speaking as someone who badly wanted that day's farm search to turn up clues to Laura's fate.

From what I remember, wasn't that stain on the underside of a board, ie seeped through from above via gravity.. it may not have been noticeable until it was actually pulled out, which may be why it was missed. Another head-shaking moment for DM, I'm sure. ;/

 

[Kamille]

Honestly, my feeling has always been that if they really thought there was blood on that board, they would have covered it up before carrying it past the media. They've been extremely circumspect with other evidence.

And I'm speaking as someone who badly wanted that day's farm search to turn up clues to Laura's fate.

Just jumping off your post...

I believe that board was seized by TPS who returned to the farm in September with new evidence regarding the disappearance of LB. So the board has nothing to do with this case IMO. Or are we just referring to it in regards to LB's case? :waitasec:

MOO

 

[deugirtni]

IMO I don't think DM cared where the truck was hosed down. He was getting it painted black via a friend and it was his apparent plan to use it. JMO

I'm sure he didn't give a rat's @ss where it got hosed... but I am wondering about aftermath evidence, after having used it. If inside, I was thinking pink concrete.. until a member above noted that the concrete floors are usually protected.. if outside, there could also be DNA left behind in the water, even after it may or may not have dried up, depending on how quickly police thought to examine the area that closely. If inside or outside, there could also be traces in the drain, wherever the drain is. Just another 'oops' moment, imo, no matter where it was done.

After hearing the blood expert's testimony, I am envisioning a massive amount of blood.. when previously, I had only been imagining a little. It freaks me out to think there was THAT much that even with removal of seats and carpet, there was THAT much that hosing out the interior caused so much evidence on the *out*side of the truck. If these guys didn't *mean* to commit murder, I can't imagine the images that are forever stamped in their brains. How do they even live with it, without saying a word to explain how and why it happened. MOO

 

[Kamille]

IMO I don't think DM cared where the truck was hosed down. He was getting it painted black via a friend and it was his apparent plan to use it. JMO

I know you meant to type red.

 

[Kamille]

I'm sure he didn't give a rat's @ss where it got hosed... but I am wondering about aftermath evidence, after having used it. If inside, I was thinking pink concrete.. until a member above noted that the concrete floors are usually protected.. if outside, there could also be DNA left behind in the water, even after it may or may not have dried up, depending on how quickly police thought to examine the area that closely. If inside or outside, there could also be traces in the drain, wherever the drain is. Just another 'oops' moment, imo, no matter where it was done.

After hearing the blood expert's testimony, I am envisioning a massive amount of blood.. when previously, I had only been imagining a little. It freaks me out to think there was THAT much that even with removal of seats and carpet, there was THAT much that hosing out the interior caused so much evidence on the *out*side of the truck. If these guys didn't *mean* to commit murder, I can't imagine the images that are forever stamped in their brains. How do they even live with it, without saying a word to explain how and why it happened. MOO

It was my understanding while reading and posting the tweets, that the blood source had to have come from outside the vehicle, below the splatter and therefore it was pooled on the ground outside the passenger door. I speculated at the time that it may have been from removing the seats and carpet via the passenger side of the vehicle when stripping out the interior. But I don't think it was from hosing down the interior of the vehicle, or at least that's not how it read to me in the tweets.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

I don't think they hosed out the truck IN the hangar. They probably did it right outside. If they didn't have any issue firing up the incinerator, they sure as heck wouldn't have any issue power washing the truck.

True. I wonder where on the outside of the building there may have been a hose hook up? Maybe not in the vicinity of where they parked the incinerator and therefore not within eyeshot of the neighbour's video surveillance?

MOO

 

[hopingforjustice]

True. I wonder where on the outside of the building there may have been a hose hook up? Maybe not in the vicinity of where they parked the incinerator and therefore not within eyeshot of the neighbour's video surveillance?

MOO

Wasn't there something one here not too long ago talking about investigation into the drains at the hanger?

 

[deugirtni]

I know this has been discussed before, but this word that was used by Paradkar to describe his then-client's feeling, has always bothered me. 'Remorseful'. I know I am saddened, angered, sympathetic, compassionate, disgusted, fearful, and a number of other things, but I sure am not 'remorseful', since I didn't do it.

adjective

/rɪˈmɔː(r)sf(&#601l/Contribute to our Open Dictionary

• feeling sad or guilty for having done something wrong
  
• Synonyms and related words
  Feeling sorry:
  
  apologetic, guilty, contrite...

• http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/remorseful
  
  

  remorse See definition in Oxford Advanced Learner's Dictionary
  Line breaks: re|morsePronunciation: /rɪˈmɔːs/
  
  Definition of remorse in English:
  
  noun
  
  [mass noun] Deep regret or guilt for a wrong committed: they were filled with remorse and shame

  http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/remorse
  
  

  Meaning of “remorse” in the English Dictionary "remorse" in American English
  
  See all translations
  remorsenoun http://dictionary.cambridge.org/help/codes.html
  
  us /rɪˈmɔrs/
  
  › a ​strong ​feeling of ​guilt and ​regret about something you have done: Judges took ​account of the prisoner’s remorse.
  
  remorseful adjective us /rɪˈmɔrs·fəl/
  › I’m still remorseful for having ​broken it.
  remorseless adjective us /rɪˈmɔrs·ləs/
  › a remorseless ​tyrant
  
  (Definition of remorse from the Cambridge Academic Content Dictionary © Cambridge University Press)

  
  http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/remorse
  

Definition of remorseful

re·morse·ful·ly play \-fə-lē\ adverb

re·morse·ful·ness noun

Examples of remorseful in a sentence

<was remorseful about all the trouble that he had caused in the family>

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remorseful

His lawyer says he feels "extremely remorseful and sad" for what has happened to Tim Bosma, the man he is accused of murdering.

[url]http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2876818-clairmont-millard-claiming-innocence-yet-staying-mum/


[/URL]

 

[Abitcountry]

True. I wonder where on the outside of the building there may have been a hose hook up? Maybe not in the vicinity of where they parked the incinerator and therefore not within eyeshot of the neighbour's video surveillance?

MOO

Driving by one can easily observe:
The east wall of the hangar is facing up the runway & is within view of employees at the airport . There appears to be a only few lower windows and a double glass door on that side as well....appears to be somewhat of a guest type entrance.
The south wall is made up of the hangar doors....and while it is at a right angle to the road,there does not appear to be a man door in the wall.
The west wall is right beside Fountain Street. In it there is a very tall garage type door, a man door and I think a lower window or two...they may have used this side and just dragged a hose from the inside to the outdoors.
The north end of the hangar is parallel to and visible from what is called Jetliner Dr....that is where you find the driveway entrance to the hangar. There is a man door in this wall and a good sized garage type door. They could have parked at this end but that would have put them close to the neighbouring business across the road on Jetliner Dr. where I suspect the surveillance cameras were located.

If they came in on Jetliner (north end)and simply drove to the farside(west wall) that borders on Fountain Street/road they could have avoided the cameras, had a man door for easy acces and a garage door in order to drive the truck inside to strip it. The incinerator could have been parked along this as well--there would have been plenty of room.
Furthermore it was the Monday night.....it was dark and there was likely very little traffic passing by on either Jetliner or Fountain to bother them.

 

[MsSherlock]

Driving by one can easily observe:
The east wall of the hangar is facing up the runway & is within view of employees at the airport . There appears to be a only few lower windows and a double glass door on that side as well....appears to be somewhat of a guest type entrance.
The south wall is made up of the hangar doors....and while it is at a right angle to the road,there does not appear to be a man door in the wall.
The west wall is right beside Fountain Street. In it there is a very tall garage type door, a man door and I think a lower window or two...they may have used this side and just dragged a hose from the inside to the outdoors.
The north end of the hangar is parallel to and visible from what is called Jetliner Dr....that is where you find the driveway entrance to the hangar. There is a man door in this wall and a good sized garage type door. They could have parked at this end but that would have put them close to the neighbouring business across the road on Jetliner Dr. where I suspect the surveillance cameras were located.

If they came in on Jetliner (north end)and simply drove to the farside(west wall) that borders on Fountain Street/road they could have avoided the cameras, had a man door for easy acces and a garage door in order to drive the truck inside to strip it. The incinerator could have been parked along this as well--there would have been plenty of room.
Furthermore it was the Monday night.....it was dark and there was likely very little traffic passing by on either Jetliner or Fountain to bother them.

My thoughts were that with 50000 square feet (i.e. 200ft x 250ft) of wide open space that the hangar provided plus a trench drain, washing the vehicle and spraying down the floor wouldn't have been an impossibility. The best long distance pressure nozzle I could find sprays a max of 60 feet. The epoxy floor coating on the hangar floor would make clean up very easy. As far as water hook ups, IMO, since it was a new build, it would have had all the bells and whistles especially on sides of the building facing the ramp and driveway. I'm guessing the exhaust from the incinerator and the length of time they needed was the reason they used it outside. They must have been worried about dying from carbon monoxide. MOO

BBM "Walking in a line several metres apart and using bladeless hockey sticks to part the grass, they also slowly scoured a drainage ditch near a runway at the Region of Waterloo International Airport. "

http://www.therecord.com/sports-story/3243162-police-scour-field-by-hangar-in-bosma-homicide/

 

[andreww]

No one has lost sight of the evil--that is self evident. But this whole ordeal has an odour about it...like something more rotten under the stairs. The bizarre nature of this crime is evidence of something more and at this point that is evidence enough for me. Surely you can concede on that single point--namely, that it is not a huge leap for people to suspect the involvement of drugs....MOO

I concede that these guys did drugs, in fact I guarantee they did. Did they have drug problems, or were drugs responsible for the crime or the sloppy coverup? Likely not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Abitcountry]

I concede that these guys did drugs, in fact I guarantee they did. Did they have drug problems, or were drugs responsible for the crime or the sloppy coverup? Likely not.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well, judging from pictures of MS where he appeared 'stewed' or 'depressed' and looking at 'his life of accomplishments so far' ....it is not a stretch to think he may have had a regular habit (probably, not what he would have considered a problem).
DM not so much....what just a recreational user !!!
It would not surprise me if they used drugs to fuel their escapades during the crime and the cleanup....they are cowards....look at the low life choices they have both consistently made.....certainly not fuelled by lofty goals & efforts.
Were drugs responsible for the crime and the coverup???...pardon my dark humour, but I am trying to imagine drugs walking up the driveway that evening....drugs driving off down the road.....drugs collecting the incinerator.....drugs wiping away evidence & fingerprints and drugs hosing down the truck etc etc. Drugs are not on trial here.
These two are utterly responsible for their own actions...they can' t even blame each other. Individually who they are and what they did is as a result of their own ill conceived choices and free will. "the devil made me do it" "the drugs made me do it" ....no one buys that in this day and age....There are no excuses, none!

 

[Abitcountry]

I know this has been discussed before, but this word that was used by Paradkar to describe his then-client's feeling, has always bothered me. 'Remorseful'. I know I am saddened, angered, sympathetic, compassionate, disgusted, fearful, and a number of other things, but I sure am not 'remorseful', since I didn't do it.

• http://www.macmillandictionary.com/dictionary/british/remorseful
  
  
  http://www.oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/remorse
  
  
  http://dictionary.cambridge.org/dictionary/english/remorse

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/remorseful




http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2876818-clairmont-millard-claiming-innocence-yet-staying-mum/

IMHO...The only thing that he regrets is the fact that he got caught and is still sitting behind bars rather than tripping around Lybia in new suit. Remorse for his actions--the word is not in his vocabulary.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Well, judging from pictures of MS where he appeared 'stewed' or 'depressed' and looking at 'his life of accomplishments so far' ....it is not a stretch to think he may have had a regular habit (probably, not what he would have considered a problem).
DM not so much....what just a recreational user !!!
It would not surprise me if they used drugs to fuel their escapades during the crime and the cleanup....they are cowards....look at the low life choices they have both consistently made.....certainly not fuelled by lofty goals & efforts.
Were drugs responsible for the crime and the coverup???...pardon my dark humour, but I am trying to imagine drugs walking up the driveway that evening....drugs driving off down the road.....drugs collecting the incinerator.....drugs wiping away evidence & fingerprints and drugs hosing down the truck etc etc. Drugs are not on trial here.
These two are utterly responsible for their own actions...they can' t even blame each other. Individually who they are and what they did is as a result of their own ill conceived choices and free will. "the devil made me do it" "the drugs made me do it" ....no one buys that in this day and age....There are no excuses, none!

I think you are giving drugs too much power. Sure drugs can lower your inhibitions, but it seems that DM was a quite uninhibited guy...racing, parachuting, multiple relationships with women at one time...

I think what we are seeing is simply DM's character in action.

As for MS, he has been quite inhibited in court, and even if he was a wake-and-bake type (no ashtray in the bedroom though) it would just make him demotivated. Pot is a peaceful drug: it is not like alcohol where goons take their bank card and health card to a bar looking for a fight.

I don't think this crime was committed under the influence of drugs. I think the influence was DM's character.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Sgt. Robert Jones, bloodstain pattern analyst with Waterloo Regional Police, will be back on the stand today

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/6373909-bosma-trial-shell-casing-mystery/