Meredith Kercher murdered-Amanda Knox Conviction Overturned #22

[SMK]

In relation to this that I posted earlier:

Meredith's frail-looking mother Arline, 65, said: "We are talking to our lawyers... " But then Stephanie interrupted: "We want to find out, if they are not guilty who is."

Arline was asked if she thought Knox was innocent and added: "I don't really know at the moment — I just had the verdict and no explanation. It has been a difficult few years let alone difficult few days."

http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ut-the-fight-goes-on-for-Meredith-family.html

I found this poster on JREF really summed it up extremely well, and it is worth excerpting from:

I really hope the motivational report from Hellman debunks the "evidence" suggesting multiple attackers being present at the cottage. I know that at least the luminol prints will be refuted because one of those prints was a probable match to Knox (with the exception of the second toe) and she has been absolved of the crime. This must mean Hellman and his jury disregarded the luminol findings as not being related to the crime. That just leaves the ambiguous bathmat print and the violent nature of the murder left.

If the jury determined that these two issues were also not indicative of multiple attackers, then that would put to rest the notion that "others" were involved. This would compel the Kerchers to drop their pursuit for the phantom assailants and finally try to move on with their lives.

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=7649418#post7649418

 

[Malkmus]

Snipped from a longer post on JREF, and to me, has always been the crux of the thing: I would love to hear how anyone who believes in their guilt here, can get around this fact, which to me is the main fact, all else being symptom, consequence, incident of this first:

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?p=7649284&posted=1#post7649284

addendum: I assume this is the part which media say will now be edited out of the Lifetime movie.

Some extremely interesting revelations from there today:

1. Hellman deducing that the letter Rudy wrote incriminating Amanda and Raf was not actually written by him as he was unable to read it himself or understand the big words.

2. The possibility that Hekuron Kokomani may have been present at the cottage with Rudy the night of the murder - which could explain some questions. he testified to being outside the cottage that night with Rudy, tried to give Rudy an alibi, and made up a story about being threatened by a knife-wielding Knox that night!

 

[SMK]

Some extremely interesting revelations from there today:

1. Hellman deducing that the letter Rudy wrote incriminating Amanda and Raf was not actually written by him as he was unable to read it himself or understand the big words.

2. The possibility that Hekuron Kokomani may have been present at the cottage with Rudy the night of the murder - which could explain some questions. he testified to being outside the cottage that night with Rudy, tried to give Rudy an alibi, and made up a story about being threatened by a knife-wielding Knox that night!

Ah hah, the plot thickens!

 

[otto]

You think she was not naive, yet all her actions indicate otherwise. Just because you're a college student doesn't make you insusceptible to influence, especially authorities.

Let me ask you this, if Amanda was not naive, why did she not demand a lawyer during this interrogation where she was turned into a suspect, and why did she keep talking once she was denied one?

Like many guilty people, she thought she could outsmart everyone.

 

[SMK]

Like many guilty people, she thought she could outsmart everyone.

If that is true, apparently, she did.:waitasec:

 

[emyr]

Some extremely interesting revelations from there today:

1. Hellman deducing that the letter Rudy wrote incriminating Amanda and Raf was not actually written by him as he was unable to read it himself or understand the big words.

2. The possibility that Hekuron Kokomani may have been present at the cottage with Rudy the night of the murder - which could explain some questions. he testified to being outside the cottage that night with Rudy, tried to give Rudy an alibi, and made up a story about being threatened by a knife-wielding Knox that night!

Actually, I am suspicious of Kokomani. Ironically enough.

 

[otto]

If that is true, apparently, she did.:waitasec:

A lot of good that did Joran van der Sloot or OJ Simpson! It seems that people that get away with murder develop some severely problematic ideas about what they can get away with. What will we see from Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox in the future?

 

[SkewedView]

Like many guilty people, she thought she could outsmart everyone.

Studies show that the guilty are far more likely to lawyer up than the innocent, as the innocent feel that they have nothing to fear from answering questions - they falsely believe that their innocence will show through, and that LE will play fair (LE doesn't, the stakes are too high to 'play nice' with potential suspects). Yes, there are plenty of idiots that commit crimes and then talk to the police without a lawyer and get into trouble, but there are also loads of idiots that didn't do anything wrong and find themselves in the same boat. So really, all we can say for sure here is that AK was an idiot for talking without legal representation. All else, to be honest, is rank speculation, and I don't see either side giving in on this one unless a tape of the session miraculously shows up.

 

[otto]

Studies show that the guilty are far more likely to lawyer up than the innocent, as the innocent feel that they have nothing to fear from answering questions - they falsely believe that their innocence will show through, and that LE will play fair (LE doesn't, the stakes are too high to 'play nice' with potential suspects). Yes, there are plenty of idiots that commit crimes and then talk to the police without a lawyer and get into trouble, but there are also loads of idiots that didn't do anything wrong and find themselves in the same boat. So really, all we can say for sure here is that AK was an idiot for talking without legal representation. All else, to be honest, is rank speculation, and I don't see either side giving in on this one unless a tape of the session miraculously shows up.

Studies show? What sort of studies? Are the guilty people that didn't lawyer up and who got away with murder included?

 

[SMK]

A lot of good that did Joran van der Sloot or OJ Simpson! It seems that people that get away with murder develop some severely problematic ideas about what they can get away with. What will we see from Casey Anthony and Amanda Knox in the future?

In your opinion, did Hellman not know what he was doing ?

 

[Malkmus]

Like many guilty people, she thought she could outsmart everyone.

Please explain how her believing the police's lie - that a lawyer would only make things worse - is an example of "outsmarting everyone".

 

[SkewedView]

Studies show? What sort of studies? Are the guilty people that didn't lawyer up and who got away with murder included?

I and others have posted links to these studies in response to your posts on numerous occasions, apparently in futility. As you recently stated, you don't click on links, so I don't see any point in doing so any longer. However, I'm sick enough to not feel like paraphrasing for you, especially given the tone of your response, so someone else will have to do so.

 

[SMK]

Studies show? What sort of studies? Are the guilty people that didn't lawyer up and who got away with murder included?

Sites such as this have said the innocent do need to retain an attorney, as they have more to lose at the hands of the police than do the guilty, obviously:

Police, Prosecutorial and Judicial Misconduct

"There is no crueler tyranny than that which is exercised under cover of law, and with the colors
of justice ."

- U.S. v. Jannotti, 673 F.2d 578, 614 (3d Cir. 1982)

http://truthinjustice.org/p-pmisconduct.htm

 

[Malkmus]

Actually, I am suspicious of Kokomani. Ironically enough.

I forgot to mention the most important factor - Kokomani also fled Perugia after the murder!

ETA: And looking back at JREF, someone has updated this and cited that Kokomani's cell phone records place him in range of the cottage the night of the murder and the night before! Okay, i'm really taking this theory seriously now...

 

[emyr]

I forgot to mention the most important factor - Kokomani also fled Perugia after the murder!

Wow, really? I hesitate to say that I am suspicious of him, because the only reason I am is because of rumor and innuendo (and we see where that road leads to). The rumor and innuendo is that his cell phone places him there, he knew about the broken down car and tow truck that was there that night, and he went to a bar afterwards and told his friends that he had been in the area that night and he was attacked. I think that his cell phone pinged in that area, and that it's proven he's used cocaine in the past.

And now this rumor that he fled. I think he approached the police with his story as well, and I think it was under the auspices that he was concerned he was going to be linked to the crime because of the story he told his friends in the bar that night.

I just thought. Man, if all that's true, maybe Rudy did have an accomplice and maybe it's this guy.

Anyway, that means that I am open to the idea that there was more than one person there that night. I think you could have a couple of people there, or it could have just been one person. If it was two people though, the evidence of the room indicates the other person didn't leave much evidence of themselves there.

 

[Malkmus]

Wow, really? I hesitate to say that I am suspicious of him, because the only reason I am is because of rumor and innuendo (and we see where that road leads to). The rumor and innuendo is that his cell phone places him there, he knew about the broken down car and tow truck that was there that night, and he went to a bar afterwards and told his friends that he had been in the area that night and he was attacked. I think that his cell phone pinged in that area, and that it's proven he's used cocaine in the past.

And now this rumor that he fled. I think he approached the police with his story as well, and I think it was under the auspices that he was concerned he was going to be linked to the crime because of the story he told his friends in the bar that night.

I just thought. Man, if all that's true, maybe Rudy did have an accomplice and maybe it's this guy.

Anyway, that means that I am open to the idea that there was more than one person there that night. I think you could have a couple of people there, or it could have just been one person. If it was two people though, the evidence of the room indicates the other person didn't leave much evidence of themselves there.

It's possible that if Kokomani was present that he was waiting in his car for Rudy to come out. In fact, I'd thought in the past that whoever disposed of the phones did so from a car, as the phones were dumped off the side of a road (into that yard) that leads out of town.

Here is the article: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ut-the-fight-goes-on-for-Meredith-family.html

Riddle of evidence from the Albanian
EXCLUSIVE from BOB GRAHAM in Perugia

THE spotlight is now set to turn on one of the most controversial witnesses in the trials of Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito.

Albanian Hekuran Kokomani, 37, claimed in court he had driven past the home where Brit Meredith Kercher was killed and saw Knox and Sollecito outside.

He claimed Knox started screaming and pulled out a large knife from a bag. He also alleged that Sollecito tried to punch him.


'Drug deal' ... Kokomani
Kokomani's story was ridiculed by the defence teams but prosecutor Giuliano Mignini maintained it was "credible and reliable evidence" that placed Knox and Sollecito at the scene of the crime.

But now we can reveal that the day before Meredith's body was found convicted small-time drug dealer Kokomani PARKED his car in the driveway of the two-storey home she shared in Perugia, Italy.

Several sources in the town claim to have information that suggests he met Rudy Guede, the man still in jail for the murder.

Giuseppe Castellini, editor of the local Giornale dell Umbria paper, told The Sun that Kokomani was at the scene to do a drug deal with Guede. Ivory Coast immigrant Guede, 26, was convicted in a separate fast-track trial and jailed for 30 years — cut to 16 years on appeal.

He then claimed Knox and Sollecito had been in the house and had directed the savage killing.

Guede previously claimed the pair were NOT in the building.


Jailed ... Guede
In the weeks that followed the murder, Kokomani fled to Albania claiming that while he was in Italy his life was in danger.

Last week he confirmed in a phone interview he had parked his black Golf in front of the house Meredith and Amanda shared — which had been empty.

The change in his story undermines the prosecution's belief that Knox and Sollecito were at the house at a time when they said they were at Sollecito's flat.

Raffaele's dad Dr Francesco Sollecito told The Sun: "We must find out the truth of Kokomani because the stories we heard in the court were lies."

FBI veteran Steve Moore said of Kokomani: "Investigators need to get to the truth of what he was doing there that evening and what was happening with the meeting with Guede."

 

[sherlockh]

I agree, nor does the Murder of Meredith Kercher thread stand out from other ones on Websleuths. Any time I said anything in defense of Casey Anthony, I met with extreme resistance. Bickering, so long as it does not get ugly, is sort of the point of these forums. Without debate, it would be fanatical, like some sites I can think of.

I bet nobody went cheering in that thread after CA was acquitted, nor would anyone put up smiley pics of CA and say what a 'sweet little mamma' she is. Also CA was convicted for lesser charges, just like AK.

 

[Madeleine74]

I remember reading that at least one of AK's roommates lawyered up after the murder. AK and RS didn't get out of town, lawyer-up, or refuse to talk to police. In retrospect they should have.

 

[emyr]

It's possible that if Kokomani was present that he was waiting in his car for Rudy to come out. In fact, I'd thought in the past that whoever disposed of the phones did so from a car, as the phones were dumped off the side of a road (into that yard) that leads out of town.

Here is the article: http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepag...ut-the-fight-goes-on-for-Meredith-family.html

Wow. Was that the black car parked out front?

Man, it's the sun though. How likely is it that any of this is true?

Except, I do remember that there were reports he fled because he said he thought Sollecito's family would be out to get him. Or something like that.

 

[Malkmus]

Wow. Was that the black car parked out front?

Man, it's the sun though. How likely is it that any of this is true?

Except, I do remember that there were reports he fled because he said he thought Sollecito's family would be out to get him. Or something like that.

The writer the same guy who did the interview with Mignini where he said Amanda could have orchestrated the murder from outside the room.

The cell phone records were mentioned back on Perugia Shock a while back.

I don't think Kokomani would say he fled town because he was guilty of conspiring the break-in with Rudy.