Meredith Kercher murdered in Perugia, Amanda Knox convicted #3

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SleuthyGal said:
My opinion on the FBI guy is this: he doesn't have a dog in this fight, so to speak. He's not related to AK or anyone else involved. His opinion isn't going to change anything, but hopefully it inspires people to keep asking questions and making sure they understand all the facts in the case. He raises some good points and questions.

I assume he values his reputation, at least to some extent. Therefore, I would also assume his citation of his opinion and why and how he came to it is based on an analysis of the case (as opposed to just reading some media reports, which is what the average layperson does).

He sees a crime scene and handling of a crime scene that doesn't allow him to have confidence in what the Italian prosecutors allege. What he's saying is that the scene + handling + some of the evidence raises reasonable doubt to AK's guilt. He goes further and says he believes AK is innocent of the crime. That's a bold statement for someone with a background in federal law enforcement/investigation....i.e. if I say it then I'm just a joe...errrr josephine schmo saying it. If an ex-FBI person says it, it carries much more weight.

Perhaps our (the U.S.) standards are higher...they might just be...and things the Italian jurors don't see as problems, U.S. experts would cringe over (like the handling of the crime scene, which we know does not follow strict protocol established by forensic standards).

In any event, the fact that a guy with an FBI background, who isn't related to anyone in this case sees issues that for him point to 'not guilty,' is certainly compelling. The FBI is known to be conservative and very pro-law enforcement/pro-prosecution.
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Well unless he has read the media reports AND court documents... he was NOT at the trial. HOW DO YOU THINK HE GOT ANY OTHER DOCUMENTS OF THE CASE??? Only possible through the AK supporters and surely he would not say she was guilty... even if over 12 judges thought the evidence showed she was involve AND a panel of judges and jurors found her guilty beyond a doubt. This type of 'expert' is just like D.Trump throwing in his opinions and saying to boycott Italian products... just a bunch of hot air IMO.
 
This type of 'expert' is just like D.Trump throwing in his opinions and saying to boycott Italian products... just a bunch of hot air IMO.
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Trump is not in the law enforcement/criminal investigation business, so anything he says is not based on scientific knowledge or a background in this area. So yes, Trump is full of hot air. He might also be correct about this case (even a broken clock is correct twice a day).

The FBI dude, in contrast, does have a background in exactly this subject, and his knowledge and reputation is more closely tied to (voicing his opinions on) this case. If what he says doesn't make sense then he looks like an idiot--not something he would likely want to do, given his background.

He listed the things he saw that gave him pause. If evidence handling (for instance) was improperly done, then that jeopardizes the results following that occurrence. It raises doubt. And it should raise doubt.

Evidence collection, handling, processing, testing, and storage are some of the most important factors in this case. Standards must be followed to ensure no cross-contamination.

The Italians may feel fine about how the evidence was collected and handled, and the jury may not be troubled by it, but that doesn't mean there weren't problems, as pointed out by numerous forensic experts who only care about the science. This FBI guy pointed it out as well.

It's problematic because it introduces uncertainty about the evidence and the validity of the evidence testing. Uncertainty = reasonable doubt.

Italy may not see the issue, but that doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist. It doesn't mean they got it 'right' in convicting AK and/or RS.
 
SleuthyGal said:
Trump is not in the law enforcement/criminal investigation business, so anything he says is not based on scientific knowledge or a background in this area. So yes, Trump is full of hot air. He might also be correct about this case (even a broken clock is correct twice a day).

The FBI dude, in contrast, does have a background in exactly this subject, and his knowledge and reputation is more closely tied to (voicing his opinions on) this case. If what he says doesn't make sense then he looks like an idiot--not something he would likely want to do, given his background.

He listed the things he saw that gave him pause. If evidence handling (for instance) was improperly done, then that jeopardizes the results following that occurrence. It raises doubt. And it should raise doubt.

Evidence collection, handling, processing, testing, and storage are some of the most important factors in this case. Standards must be followed to ensure no cross-contamination.

The Italians may feel fine about how the evidence was collected and handled, and the jury may not be troubled by it, but that doesn't mean there weren't problems, as pointed out by numerous forensic experts who only care about the science. This FBI guy pointed it out as well.

It's problematic because it introduces uncertainty about the evidence and the validity of the evidence testing. Uncertainty = reasonable doubt.

Italy may not see the issue, but that doesn't mean the issue doesn't exist. It doesn't mean they got it 'right' in convicting AK and/or RS.
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Wonder where he has gotten inside information not released by the 'media'. It wouldn't be the courts, must be from the Knox side then. Would it be possible for him to get inside information then go to the media and claim her guilty... IMO there is doubt they would have taken that chance.
This guy isn't in law enforcement either now. Kind of searching for a niche to get into it seems IMO. Wasn't he a pilot or something anyway... not exactly crime scene investigation and evidence collecting. Once being an agent doesn't make him an expert in certain fields.

Just because the evidence collection/handling is not exactly like in the US does not make it wrong. In fact the crime scene was sealed the entire time between collections... no matter the length between visits.

Well contamination has to be proven... which the defense was/will be unable to do. Maybe they will call Steve M in to testify for the defense during appeal, but I highly doubt it.

Don't you think the Italian authorities followed 'standard' procedures? Who's standards? Their's of course.

But it is the same everywhere it seems:
*don't have a defense, shout contamination! Can't prove that in any instance? Oh well we will still shout it.
*tell lies while interrogated or admit guilt, shout coercion or abuse!
*continue to tell lies (or forget because of pot smoking) and accuse an innocent man of the murder... oh well, it was those nasty police again even though I made the claim more than once.

It would all be mute if AK, RS or RG would tell the truth or be able to verify where/what they were doing that night. They will not/can not... their alibi was destroyed by evidence. Their only option was to lie, which both did. RS would not even testify... WHY???

Anything that gave the ex-agent pause could have been thrown out and there still was a pile of other evidence that got them convicted. It is the evidence as a whole, not one or two smoking guns that put them in prison.
 
dgfred said:
Just because the evidence collection/handling is not exactly like in the US does not make it wrong. In fact the crime scene was sealed the entire time between collections... no matter the length between visits.
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Actually, there are international professional standards with regards to evidence collection, handling and testing. I have seen photos and videos of the collection. In these I can see dirty gloves, people passing pieces of evidence back and forth, dropping evidence, etc. I don't think that that would be considered good procedure anywhere.


dgfred said:
It would all be mute if AK, RS or RG would tell the truth or be able to verify where/what they were doing that night. They will not/can not... their alibi was destroyed by evidence. Their only option was to lie, which both did. RS would not even testify... WHY???
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1. RG hd no alibi. He has admitted to being there. First, it was "some guy" that did the killing. After his conviction, he has changed his story to say that it was RS, and that AK was there. I don't find his accusations after the fact to be convincing.

2. AK and RS have always said that they were at his home the entire evening. They have evidence (witness and electronic) that places them there through at least 9-9:30. You may want to read through the appeal documents, especially RS, (linked here) to see the rest of their arguments.

3. If the time of death is before 10:00 pm, as the defense argues, rather than the 11- 11:30 pm the prosecution argues, Rs' and AK's alibils are far from moot.

4. RS is under no obligation to testify, can have many reasons why he didn't, and is not evidence of guilt.

dgfred said:
Anything that gave the ex-agent pause could have been thrown out and there still was a pile of other evidence that got them convicted. It is the evidence as a whole, not one or two smoking guns that put them in prison.
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I've seen this pile of evidence quoted, but I've never actually seen any "good" evidence against RS and AK. There IS a mountain of evidence -- all pointing to RG. There is are a few VERY flawed pieces against RS and AK, and a whole lot of supposition and innuendo. I believe in innocence until proven guilty, and I have seen noting close to enough evidence to convict RS and AK.
 
Monzoo said:
I've seen this pile of evidence quoted, but I've never actually seen any "good" evidence against RS and AK. There IS a mountain of evidence -- all pointing to RG. There is are a few VERY flawed pieces against RS and AK, and a whole lot of supposition and innuendo. I believe in innocence until proven guilty, and I have seen noting close to enough evidence to convict RS and AK.
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There is plenty of "good" evidence against AK and RS, including but not limited to, witness testimony, their own changing statements, their insufficient account of their whereabouts on the night in question and the slanderous accusation against an innocent man.

A court found them guilty and sentenced them to relatively long prison terms. They were innocent and then found guilty and no amount of dissection is going to change that. I wish them well in their appeals and feel hopeful their verdict will be upheld, as it should be. Amanda in not coming home anytime soon and she has lied too many times for her to have any credibility left. Her family has also done a great disservice to the Italian justice system and the Italian people as a whole, the xenophobic hysteria they whipped up against this country was disgusting.

Someone who is telling the truth does not change their story, just ask Joran Van Der Sloot.
 
Monzoo said:
Actually, there are international professional standards with regards to evidence collection, handling and testing. I have seen photos and videos of the collection. In these I can see dirty gloves, people passing pieces of evidence back and forth, dropping evidence, etc. I don't think that that would be considered good procedure anywhere.




1. RG hd no alibi. He has admitted to being there. First, it was "some guy" that did the killing. After his conviction, he has changed his story to say that it was RS, and that AK was there. I don't find his accusations after the fact to be convincing.

2. AK and RS have always said that they were at his home the entire evening. They have evidence (witness and electronic) that places them there through at least 9-9:30. You may want to read through the appeal documents, especially RS, (linked here) to see the rest of their arguments.

3. If the time of death is before 10:00 pm, as the defense argues, rather than the 11- 11:30 pm the prosecution argues, Rs' and AK's alibils are far from moot.

4. RS is under no obligation to testify, can have many reasons why he didn't, and is not evidence of guilt.



I've seen this pile of evidence quoted, but I've never actually seen any "good" evidence against RS and AK. There IS a mountain of evidence -- all pointing to RG. There is are a few VERY flawed pieces against RS and AK, and a whole lot of supposition and innuendo. I believe in innocence until proven guilty, and I have seen noting close to enough evidence to convict RS and AK.
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The Italian collection and testing has been shown (in court) to be sound and beyond reproach. The defense was unable to show/prove contamination or anything else.

*Nobody is taking RG's words as truth to what happened that night.

*Since the murder was well after that time period, what they did up to 9:30 is not such a question anyway.

*See above, the murder was well after 10:00 as the defense is/will be unable to show were it was around 10.

*Would YOU testify if you were on trial for murder and supposidly innocent???

*Would YOU consider any of this as good evidence?
1. Luminal bare footprints of RS and AK in the hallway.
2. Bare footprint in blood on the bathmat that MATCHES RS's foot. Not compatible with RG's foot, even if RG had some bare prints elsewhere in the cottage (which there were not).
3. AK's dna mixed with Meredith's blood in several locations in the cottage.
4. Numerous lies by all 3 that have been shown to be lies, and can not be contradicted with any provable alibi.
5. AK's accusation of an innocent man, after which she verified her previous 'story' and let the man sit in jail for 2 weeks.
6. The obvious staging and cleanup (not RG's shoeprints though) at the crime scene. Absolutely no reason for RG to do either.
7. NO alibi for either RS or AK. Not that they haven't tried to make one up!
8. RS stating that he may have 'pricked' Meredith on a previous occaision... which never happened, trying to explain away the dna on his kitchen knife.
9. Lies, lies and more lies attempted by both RS and AK to try to explain away that they forgot everything they did that night due to pot smoking.

Just these should do for now IMO.
 
I follow this case a little bit but did see this article today. Sorry if this has been posted already. Looked back and didn't see it.

Former Inmate Writes of Prison Life With Amanda Knox

(Sept. 15) -- Prison has quickly transformed Amanda Knox from a fresh-faced girl to a hardened convict.

That's according to Knox's former prison friend, a Brazilian woman named Florisbela Inocencio de Jesus, who has self-published a book about her time behind bars with the 23-year-old American student. Knox is serving 26 years in an Italian prison for the 2007 assault and murder of her British roommate, Meredith Kercher.

snipped

http://www.aolnews.com/crime/articl.../19634660?icid=main|main|dl1|sec4_lnk2|170790
 
Now seems she is one of the singers in the jail-house band :angel: .
 
Court Mulls Slander Charges for 'Less Serene' Amanda Knox

snipped
(Oct. 1) -- Amanda Knox, the American college student convicted of killing her British roommate in Italy in 2007, went back to court today for a hearing on whether she will stand trial for slandering the police who investigated her case.

Her brief foray from the Italian prison that's been her home for three years came as her lawyers say she is depressed and her father said she's turned down tranquilizers offered to her by prison doctors.

Knox, 23, who is serving 26 years in prison for the sensational murder of Meredith Kercher, said during the 2009 trial that police roughed her up when they questioned her following Kercher's death. Eight police officers charge that Knox slandered them with that statement. If the court agrees, Knox could face up to an additional six years in prison.


http://www.aolnews.com/world/articl.../19656997?icid=main|main|dl1|sec1_lnk3|174721
 
[video=youtube;A4q-usSJPqc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A4q-usSJPqc&feature=player_embedded[/video]
 
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/08/earlyshow/main7033971.shtml

http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=7034342n&tag=related;photovideo

wow.... she looks not so good....

Pizzey added the new trial, set to start Nov. 24, will have a new judge -- one with a reputation of not being afraid to go against the judicial grain -- a prospect that could be a glimmer of good news for Knox and her family.

Also, Knox's lawyers submitted a five-page document requesting, among other things, the review of forensic evidence, including DNA samples they claim were tainted and mishandled beyond usability and the calling of witnesses.

Knox's lawyers and defense team say they are confident they'll win the appeal.
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The view of Knox came as she returned to court today in a first step of the appeal of her conviction for murdering her English roommate Meredith Kercher on Nov. 1, 2007, and overturning a 26 year prison sentence.Prosecutors also appealed her sentencing today, asking that it be increased to life in prison.

After a brief court appearance, the appeal trial was delayed until Dec. 11.

~video also at this link~

http://abcnews.go.com/International/amanda-knox-appeals-murder-conviction/story?id=12225552
 
The hearing that was billed as "Amanda Knox's last chance" lasted a mere fifteen minutes.

The defense asked for a postponement until Dec. 11, so "the trial could begin in an atmosphere of tranquility and serenity," and the prosecution agreed.

Wearing a pale blue sweater against the damp autumn chill in Perugia, the 23-year-old Seattle student looked composed but serious as she returned to the same courtroom where she was sentenced to 26 years for murder last December.

She and her former boyfriend, Rafaelle Sollecito, who looked distant when he arrived in court, sat on the same bench where they spent their previous trial, rather than in the cages where convicted murderers are usually held.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/24/earlyshow/main7085694.shtml
 
Quite a difference, now RS is all smiles and AK looks rather glum.
 
For The Kids said:
An interview with the father of the victim...Meredith Kercher

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/a...father-passionate-attack-cult-Foxy-Knoxy.html

Its very sad IMO :( I hope one day that his family will get the peace they deserve to mourn there daughter :(
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Thanks for posting this -- it is inconceivable to me that the Knox family sent no condolences to the Kerchers, particularly given the personal attacks -- quite apart from the murder -- made on Meredith by Knox and her friends/allies. Awful.

s
 
scapa said:
Thanks for posting this -- it is inconceivable to me that the Knox family sent no condolences to the Kerchers, particularly given the personal attacks -- quite apart from the murder -- made on Meredith by Knox and her friends/allies. Awful.

s
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Very telling too IMO... they refuse any blame for anything, every time.
 
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