Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[pinkpuddytat]

I wonder if it's bad reporting or if there really was "microscopic" drops of blood on her life vest. If it were microscopic, it would not be seen with the naked eye, only under a microscope.

Ultraviolet light is often used to detect the the presence of blood traces too small to be visible to the naked eye. This technique is often used at crime scenes or suspected crime scenes to identify locations of blood. If blood traces are found, then a piece of carpet or upholstery or wall can be cut out and taken to a lab where they will try to isolate enough blood cells to do a DNA test. Blood will appear black under UV light, so even very faint traces become visible, especially to a trained/experienced investigator.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Tiffany on JVM now. JVM is still stating that there are suspects named..I thought the media already confirmed that wasn't true??

 

[epiphany]

JVM: Mex police name 2 suspects; they are bros.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Recap of Tiffany on JVM..

-Says her initial reaction to the suspects being named was "well maybe this is the chance that they will tell us where David is and David will be able to come home. But, we are now also kind of hearing that 'no, we don't have suspects'. Really and ultimately we just want David..."

"There are three boats. So how do they know which one actually shot at us. Or, shot at David."

JVM says suspects are being called by aliases "El 27 and El 31"

Tiffany says Mexican authorities have not shown her pictures of the suspects. Then she says "But then again I don't know if I could really identify anyone because I was more focused on the gun pointing at me then their faces".

(She has NO emotion what so ever).

Tiffany: ..."For them to question my story seems kind of silly, I guess. They don't really care about anybody, or if they shoot anybody". (When asked if she feels she's owed an apology from Mexican authorities).

Tiffany: (When asked if she is still willing to take a polygraph) "Well, the sheriff said he doesn't feel I need to because they know the cartel and what they do. It still is possibly an option, but I still don't feel I have to do that. But if that's what it's going to take".

Tiffany: "The cartel shot my husband. The borders need to be secured. I'm not afraid for my own safety. I didn't get shot that day. God is protecting me and he is still protecting me. I don't believe I'm in any danger". (Interesting....)

She continues to say she wants the White House to address this, and she wants the lines of communication to be open.

If they find the suspects, Tiffany says she will not want to go to Mexico and testify against them because it's a risk that would be taken.

 

[epiphany]

Tiff: ...also hearing, no they don't have suspects
JVM: police sayin they r members of drug cartel :el 27 and el 31
Tiff: dont know if i can id anyone or not
JVM: do u feel ur owed an apology?
Tiff: they know t cartel; know how they act, so hard to believe they wldn't believe me in t beginning
JVM: i have believed u from t beginning
Tiff: re poly-i said its an option, still is an option-possibly
JVM: ur t victim, why u bein grilled
Tiff: dont know until they're living down here (border)

 

[pinkpuddytat]

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/11/wife-victim-alleged-pirate-attack-unsure-suspects-idd-responsible/?test=latestnews



There is video of TH being interviewed at the link too. She is one cool customer. She says she can't identify the suspects. No emotion when she speaks. IMO

I'm puzzled by the fact that we haven't heard anything about professional attempts to help her remember and generate a sketch or two. It's not always successful, to be sure, but would obviously be worth trying *if* she really believes these people have her husband's body. If. Less time spent in front of TV cameras saying "I can't remember what they looked like", and more time spent with a professional forensic artist/psychologist, could be very productive. If.

Since there have been several other pirate attacks on this lake in recent history, I expect some of those robbery victims have been able to recall faces and help produce sketches. Wouldn't it be interesting to know whether the pirates TH says she saw look very similar to any of the pirates in the robbery attacks?

 

[epiphany]

Tiff: i just want t communication to b opened
- wish they would address t border issues
- need to focus on our border across t river vs across t ocean
JVM: wld u b willing to go to mexico to id them or testify against them
Tiff: send pics, dont know if thats smart choice right now

 

[epiphany]

JVM: re video of u and yr husband, completely verified that u were down there that day;did u mention that initially cause we didnt really hear bout it?
Tiff: i did remember we were pulled over, i couldnt remember what town it was

 

[darnudes]

Just heard on HLN that JVM will host Tiffany again tonight.

I've just watched it. No new information and JVM is perpetuating, what is now being denied by the Mexican Gov, the story about the 2 suspects.

Tiffany stated she would NOT go to Mexico to ID the suspects if requested.

 

[Missy70Texas]

I don't know if TH is responsible for her husbands disappearance or not but she sure does have alot of memory loss. It is so easy to blame the Cartel for this, take advantage of the disorder on the border. I don't know it could be that she is in shock or maybe she is just plain not telling the truth, I do know this though there is something about this whole incident that unnerves me especially her mantra about securing the border, WTH, if my husband was missing I would care less about securing the damn border I would be screaming to get my husband back. I would be yelling at them to open up the damn border and go over there and get my husband back!! Sorry but this is MOO, she may just be a true humanitarian.

 

[Tuffy]

Tiffany on JVM now. JVM is still stating that there are suspects named..I thought the media already confirmed that wasn't true??

The Mexican officials are conflicted. Bolded by me.

(CNN) -- Authorities in the Tamaulipas state attorney general's office gave conflicting information Monday over whether authorities are pursuing a pair of suspects in the case of a U.S. citizen who disappeared during a sightseeing trip on the U.S.-Mexican border in South Texas.

While Luis Homero Uvalle, a spokesman for the office, told CNN the suspects are two brothers who are "well known to this area" -- identifying them only as "El 27" and "El 31" -- Ruben Dario-Rios, the chief spokesman for the attorney general said, "We have nothing official about suspects in the disappearance of David Hartley. I do not know where that is coming from."

Dario-Rios said the lead investigator, Rolando Flores, has not indicated that there are suspects.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/11/texas.missing.american.seach/index.html?hpt=T2

 

[Tuffy]

I don't know if TH is responsible for her husbands disappearance or not but she sure does have alot of memory loss. It is so easy to blame the Cartel for this, take advantage of the disorder on the border. I don't know it could be that she is in shock or maybe she is just plain not telling the truth, I do know this though there is something about this whole incident that unnerves me especially her mantra about securing the border, WTH, if my husband was missing I would care less about securing the damn border I would be screaming to get my husband back. I would be yelling at them to open up the damn border and go over there and get my husband back!! Sorry but this is MOO, she may just be a true humanitarian.

Really good points, Missy. Why give a crap about border security now, TH? It bothers me that she shows no emotion. You mention screaming to get her husband back. You know, she shows no feelings of anger toward the gunmen AT ALL. She really doesn't even get too upset when she's asked about people doubting her story. If my husband were brutally murdered right in front of me, I would get furious at accusations toward me. Instead, she says she understands why some people suspect her. (or something to that effect)

I don't get it, but it bothers me.

 

[Sally10]

Re: her memory. She can't even remember if one of the guys on 3 boats were wearing something noticeable? I mean she said they "waved" at them on their way to the church ruins. "I saw one with a red shirt on" or "they all had on shorts" or "big tattoos on one's neck" would be a start. Geez.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

As several here have pointed out, she and her husband crossed the border illegally.

So now she's worried about border security? :waitasec:

 

[Tuffy]

As several here have pointed out, she and her husband crossed the border illegally.

So now she's worried about border security? :waitasec:

Maybe that's why she's so worried? They were able to cross so easily... :no:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I believe this woman and I hope they found her husband's body and returns him to his family for a proper burial.

However; I wouldnt be shocked if his body is never recovered.

IMO

 

[Ransom]

As several here have pointed out, she and her husband crossed the border illegally.

So now she's worried about border security? :waitasec:

How was the Hartley's crossing into Mexico at Falcon Lake illegal?

 

[CathyinTexas]

http://drlillianglassbodylanguageblog.wordpress.com/2010/10/09/does-tiffany-hartley’s-body-language-facial-and-vocal-tells-indicate-deception/

Dr. Lillian Glass gives her opinion on whether TH is being deceptive.

Honestly, I am still bothered by TH's story. I don't think we are getting the true account of what happened over there.

In my eyes, after these comments, she is not credible to me at all.

 

[CathyinTexas]

I'm still on the fence over what really happened to David. I hate that I even question whether Tiffany is telling the truth, or the "whole" truth.

The video clip with Matt Lauer that was posted up-thread from this morning: I still can't get over how composed, well rested she looks. But it really struck me as "odd" at the end, when David's mother started talking and trying to maintain her composure. It was so heartfelt and heart-broken. Yet Tiffany was still able to maintain her composure. Maybe she licked her lips or there was a little mouth movement, but not much. I know the whole "there's not a playbook for grief" but I expected to see her soften a little with the mother. Then the mother goes to grab Tiffany's hand/wrist near the very end. It's hard to tell under the news station headline banner at the bottom...but it appeared to me that the mother's hand remained on her wrist/maybe part of her hand...that Tiffany didn't change her grasp to hold the poor mother's hand in a loving manner. Just seemed cold/distant to me.

JMO.

Again, I will feel bad for being critical/suspicious of Tiffany if she is truly not involved in whatever happened to David. But at this point, I won't be surprised if she is. I don't like even thinking that. I hope he is found.

I haven't heard anyone talk about the normal stages of grief. Also, the grief process is longer and even more pronounced when a loved one is a victim of a violent crime. This poor young woman has not had a chance to really grieve since this started. From the moment she appealed to the witness for help she has been in the spotlight. I can't imagine being on one news show much less multiple daily. She has been vilified by the public at large, and she may now be entering the anger phase of grief. The anger could be compounded given all the criticism she is getting and the anger at those who did this to her husband, and the normal anger a person grieving feels in the process. I hope that we will all give her a break. Hopefully she will be fully vindicated.

 

[CathyinTexas]

Recap of Tiffany on JVM..

-Says her initial reaction to the suspects being named was "well maybe this is the chance that they will tell us where David is and David will be able to come home. But, we are now also kind of hearing that 'no, we don't have suspects'. Really and ultimately we just want David..."

"There are three boats. So how do they know which one actually shot at us. Or, shot at David."

JVM says suspects are being called by aliases "El 27 and El 31"

Tiffany says Mexican authorities have not shown her pictures of the suspects. Then she says "But then again I don't know if I could really identify anyone because I was more focused on the gun pointing at me then their faces".

(She has NO emotion what so ever).

Tiffany: ..."For them to question my story seems kind of silly, I guess. They don't really care about anybody, or if they shoot anybody". (When asked if she feels she's owed an apology from Mexican authorities).

Tiffany: (When asked if she is still willing to take a polygraph) "Well, the sheriff said he doesn't feel I need to because they know the cartel and what they do. It still is possibly an option, but I still don't feel I have to do that. But if that's what it's going to take".

Tiffany: "The cartel shot my husband. The borders need to be secured. I'm not afraid for my own safety. I didn't get shot that day. God is protecting me and he is still protecting me. I don't believe I'm in any danger". (Interesting....)

She continues to say she wants the White House to address this, and she wants the lines of communication to be open.

If they find the suspects, Tiffany says she will not want to go to Mexico and testify against them because it's a risk that would be taken.

The no emotion affect could be from just being numb. I think I would be if I had gone through what she has. Having to relive and repeat the horror that happened to her husband and herself, over and over in front of bright lights, many people and then the millions in the audience. I think she exhibits great strength and I don't doubt she was divinely protected from death, and that her strength comes from on high.