Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #1

[alwaysonmymind]

BBM

Exactly & I also think it is because of THIS EVENT or the threat of similar that TH was so hesitant when asked if she would return to Mexico should there be a trial..... um, no, I don't blame her... I wouldn't either!

So sad.

As if there would be a trial. I read on Wiki only about 1 case in 1000 ever makes it to trial. No wonder crime is just rampant down there.

Impunity

According to the CNDH, only one out of every ten crimes is reported in Mexico. Furthermore, only one out of 100 crimes actually goes to sentencing. The former is due to lack of trust from citizens to the authorities. This means that one out of every 1000 crimes is punished.[

[ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crime_in_Mexico[/ame]

 

[pinkpuddytat]

Now, why would this happen?

The severed head of a Mexican investigator involved in the Falcon Lake case was delivered to the Mexican army today, according to state Rep. Aaron Peña, D-Edinburg.

Peña reported via Twitter that he had confirmed the information with Zapata County Sheriff Sigifredo Gonzalez, whose office is heading the U.S. investigation into the Sept. 30 disappearance of David Michael Hartley.

____

http://www.themonitor.com/articles/mexican-43531-delivered-severed.html

Mexican police get murdered on a pretty regular basis. Whatever drug cartels are active in this immediate area do NOT like having their business operations disrupted by any sort of investigation that's combing the lake and perimeter. They'll stop it the fastest way they can, and apparently this was it. If we hear anything more about Mexican authorities searching/investigating in the area, it will be a lie.

I rather suspected that the sudden and improbable announcement by certain Mexican authorities that they had two specific suspects and knew their names, was part of a drug cartel-directed scheme to quickly shut down the investigation. It was probably two low-level cartel workers who'd pissed somebody off and were expendable. Arrange to have them publicly named as suspects, then arrange to have their bodies turn up, and hope that this routine will end the investigation. Didn't work, so Plan B was kill the lead investigator and deliver his head to a local army facility. I seriously doubt they'll need to proceed to any Plan C.

And if TH is lying about this whole thing, she's got that investigator's blood on her hands. It's not like she wasn't familiar with Mexico and how these things work down there.

 

[pinkpuddytat]

BBM
I am still on the fence and I do have the same reservation as you posted and
I hope I am wrong also because David Hartley is the victim here and I truly hope his body is recovered and sent back to the US.

We don't actually know that. No body has been found, and there were no witnesses other than TH, whose self-described "story" has some peculiar holes in it.

 

[missyjane77]

We don't actually know that. No body has been found, and there were no witnesses other than TH, whose self-described "story" has some peculiar holes in it.

You don't believe he was murdered?

 

[pinkpuddytat]

1. Yes.
2. It's actually nothing new. The ONLY update is that a passport (rather than another form of government-issued ID) is requried to travel BEYOND the border zone.

The purpose is to allow the free flow of tourism through the border areas (ie, so that you don't have to show a passport to transit between El Paso TX and Juarez MX, for instance). Or that you don't have to be fully searched and show a passport, when fishing on Falcon Lake.

To do otherwise, would cost much more than most US taxpayers (oddly, the "law and order" types) are willing to pay.

I'm willing to pay higher taxes to protect our borders FULLY (both NORTH and South, because all terrorists who've entered our country have come from the North).....

Is anyone else willing to pay those higher taxes?

My understanding is that Falcon Lake has concrete pylons protruding above the water to mark the border. Nobody needs to cross the border to fish on Falcon Lake.

I'm quite sure that in the not-too-long run, sealing the borders would save taxpayers a bundle of money. No need for higher taxes. Just need the political will to slash our welfare rolls and let economic necessity push all the able-bodied recipients out to the fields to pick crops, and out to the meat-processing factories, and out to the suburbs to manicure lawns.

 

[mysticrose]

A spokesman for the prosecutor's office in the Mexican state of Tamaulipas confirmed that Commander Rolando Flores, the head of state investigators in the border city of Ciudad Miguel Aleman, had been killed.

Flores was investigating the disappearance of Hartley, but the prosecutor's spokesman said the death was unrelated.

Still, Flores last weekend had delivered information about two alleged Mexican gang members to KRGV TV in Texas as part of its investigation into Hartley's disappearance.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39637423/ns/world_news-americas/#slice-2

What? He was just next on the beheading list?

Now, THIS, I'm skeptical of.

As you should be. HOW do they Know this is not related, I would bet my home it is entirley related and this is why David Hartley will never be found !

I said in one of my posts when this case broke that this would happen to people that started to get involved, it is another reason the Sheriff from TX does not want any part of being over there helping with the search.

Mexico can not control the drug cartel, and the goverment has help create the nightmare ...imho

 

[pinkpuddytat]

You don't believe he was murdered?

I have no idea whether he was murdered or not. Just pointing out that there's not a shred of concrete evidence that he was. For all we know, he could be lounging beside the swimming pool on some drug kingpin's lavish estate somewhere in Central or South America.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

If the drug cartel has the cojones to murder the lead investigator and deliver his body to the Mexican military, what possible reason would they have to hide David's body?

 

[mysticrose]

If the drug cartel has the cojones to murder the lead investigator and deliver his body to the Mexican military, what possible reason would they have to hide David's body?

I would be of the thought that if David's body is found, then it turns into a whole new ballgame, then the US can step in and demand more investigation etc.... in other words it would be a long time coming before the Federallies would ever go away, which would cause alot of issues for the Cartels protecting their drug running routes, but that is just my thoughts....

 

[hollyblue]

Thanks.I had not heard or read of the above before. learned something new today.

Does anyone know the answer to the following:

1) Does the town of Old Guerrero fall under this "border zone" where people can, like in this case, enter another country by watercraft without inspection and bypass Border Patrol Agents from both countries?

2) Is the above an "exception" then to the Laws enacted by the Department of Homeland Security and Department of State in the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative?

Just thought....David worked in Mexico and lived there for a few years w/Tiffany...so I would imagine they had whatever papers? were needed to do so. Maybe they were free to go and come as they pleased. I couldn't hear all of the conversations on the video, but it did sound like he told them who he worked for at one point. Did anyone else hear that at all?

JMO and :twocents:, but if you have people from Mexico that are now living in the States saying they won't even go home to visit their loved ones......it's a clear sign that anyone should be warying. Seems to be a mess if the cartel has more power than the gov't. ?

 

[hollyblue]

Originally posted by hollyblue


Numerous articles have identified the pirates as carrying machine guns, AK-47's etc, in previous encounters going back at least six months. Who was going dove hunting and where did that come in? The lady who says she heard the shots?

I responding to this post re: dove hunting

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5676655&postcount=593"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - David Hartley - Pirates shoot US man in Mexican waters[/ame]

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I would be of the thought that if David's body is found, then it turns into a whole new ballgame, then the US can step in and demand more investigation etc.... in other words it would be a long time coming before the Federallies would ever go away, which would cause alot of issues for the Cartels protecting their drug running routes, but that is just my thoughts....

I don't see it. The US can demand more investigation all it wants, but that doesn't mean the Federales would do anything in response. Especially if they are being beheaded.

 

[BaileyandBella]

Question

Do we know that it was actually David Hartley driving the truck that morning? Did he ever show his drivers license to the cop?

Did his family ever say when was the last time they had seen or talked to him?

 

[KaylynnCouture]

HLN covering this now.

 

[KaylynnCouture]

Ok, I'm confused. So, the head found in the suitcase is NOT David's correct? It's an investigator who was working on Davids case?

 

[Tuffy]

http://www.brownsvilleherald.com/articles/falcon-117639-heights-police.html

Mexican army Capt. Juan Hernan Espinoza seems to think that the Harleys should not have crossed there:

Espinoza, meanwhile, questioned why the Hartleys illegally crossed into Mexico on their personal watercrafts without checking in with Mexican customs.

“They shouldn’t have crossed through there,” Espinoza said in Spanish.

 

[Tuffy]

Ok, I'm confused. So, the head found in the suitcase is NOT David's correct? It's an investigator who was working on Davids case?

The lead investigator in a high-profile murder case involving pirates on a Mexican border lake has been killed, his decapitated body delivered to the Mexican military in a suitcase.

Rolando Armando Flores Villegas is the head of state investigators in the border city of Ciudad Miguel Aleman.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/10/12/mexican-army-receives-beh_n_760092.html

 

[Linda7NJ]

if the drug cartel has the cojones to murder the lead investigator and deliver his body to the mexican military, what possible reason would they have to hide david's body?

bingo!

 

[Ransom]

If the drug cartel has the cojones to murder the lead investigator and deliver his body to the Mexican military, what possible reason would they have to hide David's body?

David wasn't important. He had no value to them to make a statement. Just a dead tourist. No biggie. JMO

 

[Linda7NJ]

David wasn't important. He had no value to them to make a statement. Just a dead tourist. No biggie. JMO

So why hide his body? Makes no sense!