Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[Kimberlyd125]

Earlier in this thread someone brought info saying the fact someone has changes in their story after a traumatic event tends to show they are being truthful. It's the ones whose story never changes at all that tend to be more likely lying. Because if someone rehearses the story over and over again before the event, they are more likely to give the same account each time the tell about it.

We also have to remember how traumatic this would be for someone. And how things could start coming back to you or you could second guess what you saw.

Can you imagine the mindset of yourself after seeing your husband shot in the head? How clearly would you remember every detail?

IMO the changes in her account of that day are minor at best. I think it's perfectly normal given the traumatic events of that day.

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I don't remember her saying he was shot in the front of the head.
I remember her holding the front of her head while explaining his brains coming out. That would be accurate if shot in the back of the head. The brain matter would come out of the exit wound, not the entry wound.

 

[Tuffy]

I don't remember her saying he was shot in the front of the head.
I remember her holding the front of her head while explaining his brains coming out. That would be accurate if shot in the back of the head. The brain matter would come out of the exit wound, not the entry wound.

Kimberly, I believe she did say he was shot in the back of his head. One article stated that he was shot in the neck. I don't know it for sure, but I think that was an error on the reporter's part. I have only heard her say that he was shot in the back of the head.

 

[Tuffy]

can someone find even ONE quote from her begging for justice for david???

I will never understand how people cant see the inconsistencies in her "story" as it changes from show to show.....first he is shot in the front of the head..then the back of the head....then the neck...then they were "men" that did it but it changed to "someone". The list of inconsistencies is spectacular.


Or how about that sweet sentiment....how she is going to wear his wedding ring forever...or until she decides to not wear it anymore---doesnt that strike anyone odd since she said it after her husband was murdered just days before in front of her eyes?

Or how less then a week after he was murdered she was talking about packing up and deciding which memories to keep? As she felt it was time to get on with her life?? Who in the world could do that after being married to "the love of her life" for over 8 years and he is dead just days prior???

She is emotionless and cold.

She is Casey Anthony's doppleganger if you ask me....reality creaters to cover their crimes.

Maybe I am just a sucker but I can't imagine not having to be physically held up if this happened to my husband and myself. I would never be able to get dressed up and put on my makeup, do my hair and sit ram rod still and tell my "story" with not a tear and not demanding that the murderers be brought to justice immediately.

Sorry, but something smells rotten here and by her own facebook pages she discusses money problems, out of control spending and unemployment.....hmmmmmm wonder what the motive was??

jdj, Tiffany says she is not concerned about justice for David. She only wants his body back, and to move on. :snooty:

She reminds me of Casey Anthony too. Cold, cold, cold. :cold:

This story is a little bit similar to the recent case of the Survivor producer whose wife was killed while they were vacationing in Mexico. I believe he is still fighting extradition to Mexico for her murder.

 

[darnudes]

Mark McClish was on blog talk radio discussing the case. The show will be put up in the next hour or so.

Mark McClish is a 25 year veteran of law enforcement with the United States Marshal Service as an agent, a supervisor and a trainer. He is the author of "I Know You Are Lying" which is a great book on some of the techniques and applications of statement analysis.

http://www.igroops.com/members/lies...rshal-and-author-of-I-Know-You-Are-Lying.html

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peter-hyatt

 

[hollyblue]

I know Fran is no longer posting on this case, but for anyone else wondering about this point, here are Tiffany's exact words from today's article:

"At one point they were 12 feet away 'and had a gun pointed at my head,' she said."

Also from the article:

"She was questioned for 16 hours by Mexican authorities. 'Here they can't have access to me.'"

What a weird thing to say, IMO. Why wouldn't she want Mexican authorities to have access to her, why wouldn't she want to cooperate them in every way possible to get David back?
Read more: Widow wants U.S. to fight violence of Mexican drug cartels - The Denver Post

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_16418855#ixzz13JWt2PW0

Not sure if she is referring to the MX authorities or the cartel/gang/pirates, but if it's the latter, she's a naive fool.... Maybe she should start locally in her quest, join a group that has access to the local LE and do a little homework...she's get a good lesson in gangs and politics...and how the problem is just not linked to people who are addicted and need rehab.

Just a little google for gangs, drugs, Denver:
[ame="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS313US313&q=drugs%2c+gangs%2c+denver"]drugs, gangs, denver - Google Search[/ame]

 

[jjenny]

jdj, Tiffany says she is not concerned about justice for David. She only wants his body back, and to move on. :snooty:

She reminds me of Casey Anthony too. Cold, cold, cold. :cold:

This story is a little bit similar to the recent case of the Survivor producer whose wife was killed while they were vacationing in Mexico. I believe he is still fighting extradition to Mexico for her murder.

If her husband was killed in Mexico then US can't prosecute whoever killed him.

 

[Tuffy]

If her husband was killed in Mexico then US can't prosecute whoever killed him.

Exactly my point. Just like the Survivor producer, the US would have to agree to extradite her, if she did indeed kill him.

There is a case in Alabama (?), I believe, where the state is trying to prosecute a man for killing his wife while on vacation in Australia.

 

[darnudes]

Exactly my point. Just like the Survivor producer, the US would have to agree to extradite her, if she did indeed kill him.

There is a case in Alabama (?), I believe, where the state is trying to prosecute a man for killing his wife while on vacation in Australia.

It's Gabe Watson. He is serving time in a Queensland jail for the manslaughter of his wife Tina Watson - they were on their honeymoon. He will be released and deported in the next 3 weeks to face charges (we hope) in Alabama. The Grand Jury met a couple of days ago and the findings will be released to the public tomorrow. There is a thread about the case in this section of the forum.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=48910"]Tina Watson (nee Thomas) Drowned 2003 on Australian Reef - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

Hopefully Tina and her family can finally get some justice.

 

[hollyblue]

It's not that Tiffany is having trouble picking someone out of a line up, it's that she is unable to give ANY description, or even how many people were involved. No mention of clothing worn, hats, anything. She hasn't mentioned a description of any of the boats involved either. It's kind of strange that not one detail about the assailants or their vehicles stands out to her.

Tuffy, IIRC, I believe she said two of the boats were white and one was dark green or black.

So did they own a gun, had she ever taken shooting lessons, what would have provoked this, was he having an affair, was she?

She had "gun training" in 4H. Not sure what that entailed tho. He was a member of the NRA and TH's sister talked on her FB site of DH and a A15.

Considering authorities say they believe her, all these rumors and innuendo aren't going to do anyone any good.

No, we need facts....and just what facts DO we have to substantiate her "story"? There are other scenarios that could have taken place and it would be negligent at this point to ignore them and not throw out speculations. Her story is still "alleged", so until it can or cannot be proven, the case is still open for discussion. JMO

 

[hollyblue]

Kimberly, I believe she did say he was shot in the back of his head. One article stated that he was shot in the neck. I don't know it for sure, but I think that was an error on the reporter's part. I have only heard her say that he was shot in the back of the head.

The shot in the neck was an AP article and I think a misquote too.. JMO. But, I read on another forum, a poster stated an AK47 or A15 would not exit unless it was a very close shot. The shot would implode when it hit it's mark. Automatic weapon used to stop.... whatever...not marksmanship.

Mark McClish was on blog talk radio discussing the case. The show will be put up in the next hour or so.

Mark McClish is a 25 year veteran of law enforcement with the United States Marshal Service as an agent, a supervisor and a trainer. He is the author of "I Know You Are Lying" which is a great book on some of the techniques and applications of statement analysis.

http://www.igroops.com/members/lies...rshal-and-author-of-I-Know-You-Are-Lying.html

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/peter-hyatt

Thanks for that link. Here's one from Eyes For Lies. Ooops. Sorry, can't provide link here...you'll have to do google search.

Exactly my point. Just like the Survivor producer, the US would have to agree to extradite her, if she did indeed kill him.

There is a case in Alabama (?), I believe, where the state is trying to prosecute a man for killing his wife while on vacation in Australia.

If it was planned in any way on US soil ---US can prosecute. Since it was a US citizen, we can cooperate in investigation. My understanding....

JMO

 

[Kimberlyd125]

Kimberly, I believe she did say he was shot in the back of his head. One article stated that he was shot in the neck. I don't know it for sure, but I think that was an error on the reporter's part. I have only heard her say that he was shot in the back of the head.

Thanks Tuffy. I thought so.

 

[hollyblue]

Wife of Man Missing on Border Lake Wants Obama to Take On Mexican Cartels

"He should wake up and look what's going on in our backyards," she told the Denver Post.

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/10/24/wife-man-missing-border-lake-wants-obama-mexican-cartels/

Another video and story: http://cbs4denver.com/news/tiffany.hartley.david.2.1978094.html

We go from God told me to leave...to I made a decision.

She remembers the expressions on the bandits as they pointed a gun at her as she tried to pull David’s body from the water.

http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?id=29896

Time for the Nov elections.....................I can see this "story" is getting deflected from not just it's original source. :sick: This last article has it as gospel and fact of the alleged shooting.

 

[Tuffy]

http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?id=29896

Although she is three weeks and more than a thousand miles away from Falcon Lake, where bandits shot and killed David, a Loveland native, Tiffany can recall the smallest details as if she were still there.

She now remembers the smallest details?

She remembers how the three boats encircled her and David on their Jet Skis.

I thought they were approached from behind initially? She said they tried to race back to the US side, and that's when David was shot?

She remembers how David placed himself between her and the gunmen.

If the boats encircled them (they were not behind them) how did David place himself between her and the gunmen?

She remembers seeing David fly from his Jet Ski into the water after a bullet struck his head.

She remembers the expressions on the bandits as they pointed a gun at her as she tried to pull David’s body from the water.

Now she remembers the expressions on the faces of the bandits, yet still can't tell us anything about them, other than they were teenagers?

And she remembers the worst moment of her life, when she had to make the decision to flee without David’s body.

 

[Tuffy]

Bolded by me for emphasis:

Tiffany has not decided where she will live and what she will do beyond the immediate future of staying with her family, contacting lawmakers and hitting the talk show circuit.

http://www.reporterherald.com/news_story.asp?id=29896

 

[monkeypants]

anyone else find it incredibly hyprocritical that she is now the "voice of border control" when in fact this whole thing would never have happened had she not crossed the border knowingly ? How come I don't hear her once say that she did something that she shouldn't have? She acts like the "pirates" came after her in US territory...its so ridiculous and all she is trying to do is cloud the air and direct attention to a hot button item. Its a smoke screen and she will get caught. The more interviews she does and the more her "story" changes the longer the rope is getting to hang herself. It is a matter of time. Tiffany is not smarter than LE or the FBI.

How do you go from saying - my husband and i practiced what we would do if pirates came to get us that day as we were well aware of the issues on the lake and the problems that have been happening there- and then demand border control??? SHE is the reason there needs to be border control...she crossed into another country without proper entry.

and to the person that asked me how I would remember the details of that day if it happened to me? I GUARANTEE YOU THAT I WOULD NEVER FORGET THE FACES OF THOSE THAT KILLED MY HUSBAND. I would see them in my nightmares every single night and they would haunt me. I would be able to give you a description right down to the part in their hair. It would be forever etched into my mind as well as the boat description and EXACTLY where the shooting occured. I wouldn't be able to scrub it out of my brain if I wanted to.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

anyone else find it incredibly hyprocritical that she is now the "voice of border control" when in fact this whole thing would never have happened had she not crossed the border knowingly ?

YES! :furious:

And I totally agree with everything else you said.

ETA: And another thing. If I were so "traumatized" I couldn't remember what my husband's killer's looked like, I sure as heck would be too traumatized to be putting my mug on TV every chance I got.

I know, I know, everyone grieves differently. Some work through their grief by trying to stay in the media spotlight as much as possible, I guess.

 

[IWannaKnow]

All quotes from same article.



http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39828239/ns/world_news-americas

Witness: 13 slain at rehab center in border city

By MARIANA MARTINEZ
Associated Press

TIJUANA, Mexico — A client at a drug rehab center in the Mexican border city of Tijuana said Monday that a gang of armed men burst into the building and gunned down 13 recovering addicts there.

In Ciudad Juarez, prosecutors' spokesman Arturo Sandoval said three municipal police officers were found shot to death outside their patrol vehicle on Sunday.

And in the southern Pacific coast state of Guerrero on Sunday, state police found the bound, executed bodies of six men on a highway outside the resort city of Acapulco.

three people killed in the crossfire of a shootout between gunmen, police and soldiers in northern Coahuila state Sunday. The victims were a 14-year-old boy and two women aged 18 and 47, according to a statement by the state prosecutors' office.

In Ciudad Juarez, meanwhile, the death toll from a birthday party massacre late Friday rose to 14 when an 18-year-old man died of his wounds. Nineteen people were wounded in the attack on two private homes where about four dozen partygoers had gathered for a teenager's birthday.

 

[jjenny]

anyone else find it incredibly hyprocritical that she is now the "voice of border control" when in fact this whole thing would never have happened had she not crossed the border knowingly ? How come I don't hear her once say that she did something that she shouldn't have? She acts like the "pirates" came after her in US territory...its so ridiculous and all she is trying to do is cloud the air and direct attention to a hot button item. Its a smoke screen and she will get caught. The more interviews she does and the more her "story" changes the longer the rope is getting to hang herself. It is a matter of time. Tiffany is not smarter than LE or the FBI.

How do you go from saying - my husband and i practiced what we would do if pirates came to get us that day as we were well aware of the issues on the lake and the problems that have been happening there- and then demand border control??? SHE is the reason there needs to be border control...she crossed into another country without proper entry.

and to the person that asked me how I would remember the details of that day if it happened to me? I GUARANTEE YOU THAT I WOULD NEVER FORGET THE FACES OF THOSE THAT KILLED MY HUSBAND. I would see them in my nightmares every single night and they would haunt me. I would be able to give you a description right down to the part in their hair. It would be forever etched into my mind as well as the boat description and EXACTLY where the shooting occured. I wouldn't be able to scrub it out of my brain if I wanted to.

Well, I do find it hypocritical since that she is talking about border control since she and her husband went into Mexio, so what border control is she talking about? As regarding remembering details, how exactly do you know what you would or wouldn't remember? Have you ever been asked to ID anyone? It's easy to say that you would remember, but in fact eyewitness testimony is not always reliable and in fact people who were exonerated after being wrongly convicted many times were put in prison by mistaken eyewitness testimony. So when someone says "I know I will remember every detail" that doesn't impress me one bit. Add to that someone can be sure of their ID and be completely wrong.

 

[monkeypants]

in this instance they were close enough to "put a barrel of a gun in her face" and she was also able to study their faces long enough to know that they exchanged looks with each other "looking like they were saying what do we do with her" so are you telling me that she was able to stare at them all and decifer what they were saying to each other but then turn around and say she never saw them as she was only looking down the barrel of a gun and then much later changed that to be teenagers???? come on....I suppose you are going to tell me her talk show circuit and daily media performances are "ugly coping"