Mexico Mexico - David Hartley, 30, Lake Falcon, 30 Sept 2010 #2

[fran]

I can't find it in writing, but I heard on FOX news this morning, IIRC, Bill Hemmer reporting, that Tiffany returned to Colorado because she was in fear of her life.

I did read in an article last week where one official said he wished she'd stop talking to the media. IMHO, because the cartel was getting upset. I mean let's face it, that's why that one LE officer was murdered, to send a message.

Unfortunately, it looks as if David's body is never going to be located. My prayers to the family.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2010/10/20/gunbattles-stir-panic-mexican-border-cities/

Gunbattles Erupt in Mexican Cities Across Texas Border, Stirring Panic
October 20, 2010

NUEVO LAREDO, Mexico – Mexican soldiers battled gunmen in two cities across the border from Texas on Wednesday, prompting panicked parents to pull children from school and factories to warn workers to stay inside. Assailants in a third city threw a grenade at an army barracks.

The U.S. Consulate in Nuevo Laredo warned American citizens to stay indoors. The statement said there were reports of drug gangs blocking at least one intersection near the consulate in the city across from Laredo, Texas.

The local city government and witnesses reported several more blockades — a new tactic that has emerged in northeastern Mexico, where violence has soared this year amid a split between the Gulf and Zetas drug gangs.

Cartel gunmen frequently use stolen cars and buses to form roadblocks during battles with soldiers. Witnesses in Nuevo Laredo said gunmen forced people from their cars to use the vehicles in the blockades.

Shootouts also erupted in Reynosa, across from McAllen, causing a huge traffic jam in the highway connecting the city with Monterrey and Matamoros.

The local governments of Reynosa and Nuevo Laredo warned residents to stay inside through a series of Twitter and Facebook messages.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<more at link>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[IWannaKnow]

Here ya go fran:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/20/texas.missing.american/

Missing American's wife moves back to Colorado
By the CNN Wire Staff
October 21, 2010 -- Updated 0742 GMT (1542 HKT)

"Just because I'm going to Colorado doesn't mean I'm done," she said. "You'll still hear from me. I'm still going to be out fighting for my husband and fighting for everyone on the border."

 

[Joe Friday]

BBM. Thank you very much, that's what I thought.

So now we have Mexican drug cartel members that are either intimately familiar with how jet skis work, or conveniently carry a tow rope just in case the opportunity to steal a jet ski presents itself.

IMO All water craft carry a tow rope

The pirates were driving boats. Boat usually carry many ropes on them to tie up to docks and might even carry a tow rope in case of emergency engine failure. I carry a ski rope in my jetski just in case the engine should quite or I get the jet pump plugged or who knows. I don't see carrying a rope as being convenient, I see it as a necessity.

My understanding is that the safety key thingie that kills the engine in the event of an emergency is required to restart the jet ski. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Yes you need the safety key "thingie" to make the jetski run. I have two jetski's (at the moment) a Seadoo and a Kawasaki. My Kawasaki lanyard is the type you put around your wrist with a strap on them. The Seadoo lanyards have a clip on them to clip to your life vest and there is no strap to put around your wrist. I hook my Seadoo lanyard to a hook on my life vest. I would think that David's lanyard would have most likely been hooked to his live vest when he fell off the jetski as well. Most of my friends have Seadoo watercraft also and they all hook their lanyards to their vests also.

My Kawasaki lanyard looks like a two prong fork that clips under a kill switch holding it out so the jetski will run. When the clip is removed the switch is spring loaded, it retracts and kill the engine. My Kawasaki is a 1999 vintage and they might have redesigned earlier models, I don't know.

Seadoo lanyards are actually programed to each jetski. The lanyard must work somewhat like a proximity card and reader to tell the jetski the correct lanyard is hook to that machine. I found this out when I purchased a 2003 Seadoo jetski (which I have since sold) on a salvage pool auction that had been recovered by a insurance company after being stolen and there was no lanyard with the jetski when I picked it up. The lanyard off my 2001 Seadoo would not work on the jetski that I just purchased. The local Seadoo dealer told me that the lanyard needed to be programmed to the jetski. After taking the jetski to him he sold me a new lanyard, hooked up his computer to the jetski and reprogrammed the jetski's ignition computer to accept the code from the new lanyard all for around $60.00. This means that the lanyard off of David's jetski would most likely not work on TH's jetski and vise verse.

I took some pictures of my Seadoo lanyard and where it hooks up. (click on the picture to enlarge it so you can see better)

 

[laytonian]

Here ya go fran:

http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/10/20/texas.missing.american/

Missing American's wife moves back to Colorado
By the CNN Wire Staff
October 21, 2010 -- Updated 0742 GMT (1542 HKT)

"Just because I'm going to Colorado doesn't mean I'm done," she said. "You'll still hear from me. I'm still going to be out fighting for my husband and fighting for everyone on the border."

There's another (obvious) reason for that move: David's paychecks have run out, yet without a declaration of death, there's no insurance payout.

Also: a news report (HERE) said they were waiting "approval" of his request for a transfer to Colorado. Since he no longer has the capability of making that transfer, the company may not pay for the move. (Unless there's a contract stating that they'd eventually be moved back to where they started from.)

 

[Kimberlyd125]

So they do hide bodies! Not only do they hide bodies, they've gotten very skilled at disposing of bodies!

That's good to know since that has been a major point against TH. It has been said over and over again here that they do not hide bodies.

I guess we have the answer now.

 

[Kimberlyd125]

There's another (obvious) reason for that move: David's paychecks have run out, yet without a declaration of death, there's no insurance payout.

Also: a news report (HERE) said they were waiting "approval" of his request for a transfer to Colorado. Since he no longer has the capability of making that transfer, the company may not pay for the move. (Unless there's a contract stating that they'd eventually be moved back to where they started from.)

BBM

laytonian:
Is this a theory or you saw this somewhere?

 

[hollyblue]

So they do hide bodies! Not only do they hide bodies, they've gotten very skilled at disposing of bodies!

That's good to know since that has been a major point against TH. It has been said over and over again here that they do not hide bodies.

I guess we have the answer now.

Yes, they are very good at hiding/desolving/burning bodies, but they are also very good at kidnappings, drug/gun trafficking and last but not lest....murder for hire. Anything to generate revenue which they must have to keep their operations going. Just as in other countries, the more power and money, the better your position for being the top dog.

Yet, it's just not the cartel any longer....the little "thugs" on both sides of the border are getting the gist of it:

[ame="http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=navclient&ie=UTF-8&rlz=1T4ADBR_enUS313US313&q=mexico%2c+murder+for+hire"]mexico, murder for hire - Google Search[/ame]

 

[Kimberlyd125]

I was just pointing out a common misconception in the thread.

Like the statement there is no getting around the fact they would not have disposed of his body or hidden it.

 

[Waddles]

fftopic:I know this probably really has nothing to do with anything but it puzzles me that DH's FB page doesn't have messages of support on the wall, of being sad for his loss, of missing him, of hoping he's ok, RIP etc etc. But then maybe that's privacy settings, that we can only see part of the wall? He has 219 friends. Also none of the friends appear to mention him in their status bar two (JDC) and NH, his sister. Dunno I just find that odd

 

[*Jessica*]

fftopic:I know this probably really has nothing to do with anything but it puzzles me that DH's FB page doesn't have messages of support on the wall, of being sad for his loss, of missing him, of hoping he's ok, RIP etc etc. But then maybe that's privacy settings, that we can only see part of the wall? He has 219 friends. Also none of the friends appear to mention him in their status bar two (JDC) and NH, his sister. Dunno I just find that odd

I noticed that too a while back..odd isn't it?

 

[Waddles]

I noticed that too a while back..odd isn't it?

yes, and it makes you wonder if that is telling at all for any reason-are they in disbelief, were they not close to him, do they for some reason not think he's dead, holding back in case he resurfaces -or then simply maybe FB privacy settings are hiding posts, or maybe she removed them- anyway regardless I just find this whole entire story bizarre, I don't know what I believe.

 

[IWannaKnow]

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130698341

Mexican Border Lake Shooting Still Awash In Mystery

by John Burnett

BBM

A senior U.S. official with knowledge of the border and of Tiffany Hartley's account says the current theory is that the Hartleys ran into three boatloads of armed men who were less pirates than halcones — lookouts for drug runners. The cartel "ground soldiers," as the official called them, were young and poorly trained, and the Hartleys ran afoul of them.

The federal official, who spoke on background, said there have been two other incidents in the past six months in which two Americans were slain in the same Mexican state, Tamaulipas. They tried to run highway roadblocks manned by drug mafia gunmen. One man was traveling with his family; the other was a mountain biker.

"Think of this as a sort of water roadblock," the official said.


A puzzled U.S. homeland security official added, "This is a weird case. The cartels know that killing Americans is bad for business."

 

[fran]

I posted that article yesterday about the gun battles that raged on Wednesday to prove a point. I don't think that most Americans realize how dangerous it has become along the U.S./Mexican border. I believe that's why so many doubted the wife's story. But those who live along the border, really didn't doubt what she said.

I do not believe the wife's story has changed from the beginning. Let's face it, there has been a number of articles written in various media outlets and from experience, you can only believe half of what's written. It's not always word for word, or they may have a different interpretation, which then makes it seem as if Tiffany's story has changed. Of course more details are revealed as the case progresses. It's not that she changes the story, it's that it's just reported differently.

Yes, they do hide bodies. They also display them or leave them where they fall. It depends on the circumstances, the cartel, the perp, the message, IF there is one.

The violence that erupted on Wednesday, COULD have been from what happened in Tijuana last week. There was the LARGEST marijuana confiscation in their history. The street value was $ 1/2 BILLION! Can you imagine?! Someone is REALLY, REALLY, REALLY, ticked off! Wow!

Just as an aside, JIMHO, I believe they may have been aligning up for what's happening in California on Nov. 2nd, 2010. They're voting to POSSIBLY legalize marijuana. I believe they may have been filling their stores, if you will, to be ready on IF the bill passes. IF it doesn't pass, they still have a market, but if it does pass, that $ 1/2B worth of marijuana, would be but a drop in the bucket, as far as demand. Because honestly, IF they pass it, people from the neighboring states will be flocking to California to purchase and then MANY will most likely return to their state and distribute. IMHO, that's the scary part.

I believe David and Tiffany THOUGHT it was safe to return to Mexico just one last time. IF there was trouble, David thought he could handle it. But you don't go into enemy territory unarmed, especially when the enemy has unlimited fire-power.

Unfortunately, David paid a very high price for his decision and Tiffany and David's entire family will have a life-time of regrets.

JMHO
fran

PS...I don't know if you all noticed in the article yesterday, but a U.S. soldier was killed in one of those shoot-outs. He was originally from Mexico and was home visiting his family and got caught in the cross-fire. The U.S. military officials and FBI are attempting to find out exactly what happened. fran

 

[claudicici]

....on the contrary I think most of us that do not believe Tiffany's story realize exactly how dangerous it is and also realize that there is NO WAY IMO they would have put a gun to her head and then let her go???? A pretty little blonde american lady? She would have been assaulted and killed IMO

 

[fran]

I don't know that they ACTUALLY POINTED THE GUN AT HER HEAD. I believe it was more metaphoric.

I don't believe these guys intended on actually killing David and Tiffany. I think they were just trying to scare them and get them to stop. I believe the shot that killed David was by chance.

They had just finished taking their photos and were preparing to return to the U.S. when they noticed the three fishing boats. At the time they spotted the fishing boats, the people onboard waved. IMHO, that's when David told her "We need to get out of here." The problem was the boats were between the Hartleys and the U.S. border, so they had to drive right past them. It was when they approached, at a high rate of speed, they noticed the guns. The pirates or whatever, didn't shoot because they PROBABLY thought they were going to stop. When the Hartleys didn't stop but sped past them, that's when the people on the fishing boats opened fire.

When Tiffany noticed that David had been struck, she quickly turned around and was trying to get him onto her jet-ski. Two of the boats, I believe, approached her and when they came upon her, I don't think they knew what to do. I think at that point, they were pointing their weapons at her, but realized she wasn't a threat, ie she was unarmed. The people from the two boats spoke to each other in Spanish and went back to the third boat, most likely to decide their next move. They were most likely taken by surprise when Tiffany suddenly took off. That's when one of the boats began persuing her and was shooting at her. These guys, by that time, imho, realized they'd made a mistake and needed to cover their tracks. They couldn't let Tiffany get away. But their fishing boats were no match, in speed, to Tiffany's jet-ski.

As Tiffany approached the U.S. shore, the pirates that were persuing her realized their were people onshore. There was no way they could catch up to her, so they quickly turned back.

When the one boat got back to the other two boats, they, most likely at that time, realized that they were in big trouble with their bosses. They did not have authority to shoot to kill and here they had a jet-ski and body in the middle of the lake. So they retrieved David's body and took the jet-ski and disappeared on the Mexican side of the lake. Of course they hid everything. They first of all didn't want them to find the evidence of the kill. No body no crime?

We've seen enough to know that the cartel boss is very upset and KNOW that they will kill all those involved in this incident. These people are vicious and have absolutely no regard for human life. They won't think twice about eliminating ALL of those guys on the three boats.

Anyway, that's how I understand what's transpired. Of course, then there's all the searches, threats, additional murder that we know of, etc.

I realize there will still be people who doubt Tiffany's story and that David is even dead. Unfortunately, I don't think David will ever be found and the Cartel is probably not going to show proof that they took justice for David's murder.

No winners here.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Just to point out how vicious these cartels are and how they have absolutely NO REGARD for human life:

I believe it was mentioned in the article yesterday, but within the past few months, close to the Mexican/U.S. border, in Mexico, they came upon 72 bodies. All had been murdered. Men, women, teenagers, all murdered in cold blood.

The 72 people had committed no crime and were not involved in the drug trade. They were Mexican and South American immigrants headed for the U.S. border. The drug cartel wanted them to work for them, be assassins. When the people refused, they were murdered.

Men, women, teenagers,

I believe Tiffany's story.

JMHO
fran

 

[Linda7NJ]

sniped

I don't know that they ACTUALLY POINTED THE GUN AT HER HEAD. I believe it was more metaphoric.

JMHO
fran

Then you also are NOT BELIEVING TIFFANY's story as told.

 

[IWannaKnow]

I don't believe that a gun has to be touching your temple to be considered pointed at your head. 10 feet away, 20 or 50 feet away would still be pointed AT YOU if it is not pointed AWAY from you. It doesn't have to be point blank, executioner style. This is symantics.

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't believe that a gun has to be touching your temple to be considered pointed at your head. 10 feet away, 20 or 50 feet away would still be pointed AT YOU if it is not pointed AWAY from you. It doesn't have to be point blank, executioner style. This is symantics.

Of course it doesn't have to be touching a temple to be pointed at her.

Tiffany said she was staring down the barrel at 10 feet away. That's NOT a "metaphor".