Mexico Mexico - Jenny Chen, 26, Oaxaca, 11 April 2016 #4

[GigTu]

I will stay. I am retired with a heart condition, so I ain't going anywhere (except a birding trip to Charleston in October).

About Jenny's disappearance, how about the psychological angle.

1. She wanted to see a psychiatrist. Was she flighty and distracted.
2. What about the sexual angle ? She was a pretty girl alone in rural Mexico. A perp could have pushed her down, ripped her pants off and raped her. He would have buried the body after that. Maybe I have the mind of a murderer...
3. I don't put it past the Mexican police to just lie to the Chinese parents, to smooth things over. To keep the heat off. "Yes, madam. Your daughter is fine....". The authorities have lied about the 43 leftist students who were massacred in Oaxaca in 2014. Drug couriers killed them and burned 43 cadavers in a pit. Just saying.

Personally, I believe this is exactly how ti went down.

 

[GigTu]

If Jenny does indeed have some kind of amnesia...I don't think we can know the answer to this, not knowing her mindset...but what I wonder is if she would be more likely, or less likely to be keeping herself around other Chinese, as in the Chinatowns or communities they might tend to congregate in. I see that there is a small Chinatown in the Mexico City area (Zocalo is near it, Zocalo being where JR seems to be focusing now), but there's a couple near the northern border, in Mexicali and Tijuana.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinatowns_in_Latin_America

Robert321: I, too, am very impressed with your language abilities! A real asset on these boards. I'm glad you will add your input here. Welcome.

I don't think Jenny wanted to be Chinese or associated with anything Chinese.. anymore. If she has taken on a new identity, it's voluntary. jmo

 

[Robert321]

I found Jenny's email address on www.wzfc.net I sent her a short e-mail in Chinese saying that people were looking for her and asking was she fine.

I do not expect a reply. She is no longer with us... I hope I am wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Robert321]

I found Jenny's email address on www.wzfc.net I sent her a short e-mail in Chinese saying that people were looking for her and asking was she fine.

I do not expect a reply. She is no longer with us... I hope I am wrong.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Here is a nice photo of Jenny Chen.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Lilibet]

I will stay. I am retired with a heart condition, so I ain't going anywhere (except a birding trip to Charleston in October).

About Jenny's disappearance, how about the psychological angle.

1. She wanted to see a psychiatrist. Was she flighty and distracted.
2. What about the sexual angle ? She was a pretty girl alone in rural Mexico. A perp could have pushed her down, ripped her pants off and raped her. He would have buried the body after that. Maybe I have the mind of a murderer...
3. I don't put it past the Mexican police to just lie to the Chinese parents, to smooth things over. To keep the heat off. "Yes, madam. Your daughter is fine....". The authorities have lied about the 43 leftist students who were massacred in Oaxaca in 2014. Drug couriers killed them and burned 43 cadavers in a pit. Just saying.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would not be surprised if all three points you make are true, Robert.

1) The psychiatrist visits were because she still couldn’t “let things come and go.” She may have been flighty and distracted as well.
http://weibo.com/p/1001603923947296045289?mod=zwenzhang

All that may have factored into conquering her fears and motivated her to take bigger risks.

2) She claimed she was almost raped, yet decided to hitchhike to face her fears. If the truck driver did pick her up, your scenario #2 could have happened...or with someone else unknown.

3) And I’ve long had a feeling that Mexican LE lied and that the Chinese government “encouraged” Jenny’s parents to just accept their word in order to keep good relations. I didn’t like JR’s attitude about this but he was probably right. Her poor parents were really powerless. What were they supposed to do? Defy their government and make waves in the face of popular opinion against Jenny? I doubt they had a fundraising site to help them pursue the truth on their own. The photo of her poor, dejected mother in the Embassy press release is heartbreaking. Her mother knew Jenny was gone IMO. To me, their silence doesn’t mean she’s in touch with them. Oh how I wish she was!

So I think you may have just summed it all up, Robert. I think we’re all still here because hope springs eternal and we want to know what’s next with JR.
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

Just an added thought...even though JR was possibly/probably/maybe correct that Mexican LE was lying about Jenny being seen, it was so puzzling at the time that he could be so definite that Jenny had not been seen. He rejected that possibility without appearing to even look into it or be encouraged. What did he know that formed his opinion? Did he ask for proof that she was seen? Most people with missing loved ones grab hold of any shred of hope and run with it. Was the Corona truck driver story blinding him to any other possibilities? Couldn’t he check out both?

But now, he’s sidelined Corona and is all in with the witness who says she saw Jenny in February, and he’s hypothesizing about trauma (probably caused by the Corona driver) and amnesia. Is it a case of trusting a private citizen over LE? I can understand that, but I’d be interested in his thought processes in both situations.
JMO

 

[Robert321]

As you said, "most people with missing loved ones grab hold of any shred of hope and run with it." Yes, but the very fact of this couchsurfing trip alone through Mexico as though it were Disneyland is evidence to me at least that something was wrong with their relationship. And she was a China-hating Chinese. Most Chinese love China. What was going on with her ?

The husband is indeed a piece of work, but he is in Seattle. I don't think he did it.

The timeline scares me because she was first lost in April 2016. This is Sept 2017. Notwithstanding the reported sighting in Mexico City, that is a long time to be anywhere without money.

She is a cute female. So she actually COULD be shacking up with a handsome Mexican some place, but would another Mexican not report having seen her in the market.

Much more probably, she was attacked and killed or kidnapped in Mexico. The Mexicans do these things to each other, why not to foreigners. The right kind of person or people would not be at all squeamish about her being a female. De verdad.

Robert321


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[KaaBoom]

Her Chinese name is 陈群丹. Thanks.

The only thing I have been able to find in the last year with her name on it, is a lot of Chinese-American bloggers reposting old news articles. Best as I can tell there has been zero mainstream news media attention to the case in the last year. The only new information to come out of the case, has been on JR's Facebook group, and that information is IMHO highly suspect.

 

[Robert321]

Today I scanned the Chinese language media references to Jenny and they all seem to be rehashing the info in the culturally dominant American media.

I have Chinese friends. The one from Beijing spoke Mandarin dialect Chinese. The one from Sichuan spoke that dialect. To speak to each other, they speak English to each other.

Robert321


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[webant]

Her Chinese name is 陈群丹. Thanks.

Yes, Chen Qun Dan would be the Roman or Latin alphabet transliteration of Jenny's Chinese name. Or at least what the English language news reports tell us it is. Not being able to read, write, or even see Chinese characters on my computer, I will take their word for it.

 

[webant]

Today I scanned the Chinese language media references to Jenny and they all seem to be rehashing the info in the culturally dominant American media.

I have Chinese friends. The one from Beijing spoke Mandarin dialect Chinese. The one from Sichuan spoke that dialect. To speak to each other, they speak English to each other.

Robert321

The same often happens in India with people who speak either Hindi or Kannada, but not both. They best communicate in English.

 

[webant]

Just an added thought...even though JR was possibly/probably/maybe correct that Mexican LE was lying about Jenny being seen, it was so puzzling at the time that he could be so definite that Jenny had not been seen. He rejected that possibility without appearing to even look into it or be encouraged. What did he know that formed his opinion? Did he ask for proof that she was seen? Most people with missing loved ones grab hold of any shred of hope and run with it. Was the Corona truck driver story blinding him to any other possibilities? Couldn’t he check out both?

But now, he’s sidelined Corona and is all in with the witness who says she saw Jenny in February, and he’s hypothesizing about trauma (probably caused by the Corona driver) and amnesia. Is it a case of trusting a private citizen over LE? I can understand that, but I’d be interested in his thought processes in both situations.
JMO

Jenny was reported by a witness to have been 'still traveling' in southern Mexico. But this was 6 weeks after she had disappeared and during those six weeks there had been no activity on her bank account or telephone; no communication with her mother or husband. I think that is why JR didn't believe the 'still traveling' claim.

I don't know if he spent any time looking for Jenny in the area of reported sighting. It would be interesting to know what JR's PI had to say about that reported sighting...and who the 'witnesses' are that have seen the current (February) sighting as being credible.

 

[webant]

As you said, "most people with missing loved ones grab hold of any shred of hope and run with it." Yes, but the very fact of this couchsurfing trip alone through Mexico as though it were Disneyland is evidence to me at least that something was wrong with their relationship. And she was a China-hating Chinese. Most Chinese love China. What was going on with her ?

The husband is indeed a piece of work, but he is in Seattle. I don't think he did it.

The timeline scares me because she was first lost in April 2016. This is Sept 2017. Notwithstanding the reported sighting in Mexico City, that is a long time to be anywhere without money.

She is a cute female. So she actually COULD be shacking up with a handsome Mexican some place, but would another Mexican not report having seen her in the market.

Much more probably, she was attacked and killed or kidnapped in Mexico. The Mexicans do these things to each other, why not to foreigners. The right kind of person or people would not be at all squeamish about her being a female. De verdad.

Robert321

There have been numerous foreign tourists, from numerous countries, that have disappeared or been murdered in Mexico; a number of them just since Jenny disappeared. Not counting people involved in drugs or other nefarious activities...just normal decent tourists.

Tourist Killed website, Mexico Section
http://touristkilled.com/category/mexico/

 

[Lilibet]

Jenny was reported by a witness to have been 'still traveling' in southern Mexico. But this was 6 weeks after she had disappeared and during those six weeks there had been no activity on her bank account or telephone; no communication with her mother or husband. I think that is why JR didn't believe the 'still traveling' claim.

I don't know if he spent any time looking for Jenny in the area of reported sighting. It would be interesting to know what JR's PI had to say about that reported sighting...and who the 'witnesses' are that have seen the current (February) sighting as being credible.

BBM

I agree that JR probably didn’t believe the “still traveling” claim for those reasons. He said as much. But the same circumstances regarding banking, telephone and communication hold true now, 18 months later...and he’s all in and investigating the new claim thoroughly. The only differences I can see are that the new sighting report comes from a private citizen, not LE, and by now he’s repeatedly hit a brick wall with the Corona driver...compelling differences, for sure.

But plenty of people purposely disappear without using their bank or phone. Whitey Bulger for one. There are websites that explain how to do it. So it just seemed strange to me that JR was so dismissive at that time. The evidence about the Corona driver must have been rock solid for him not to think it was necessary to investigate the “still traveling” claim simultaneously. Perhaps his PI discouraged that. Or else it was investigated and he never said. And I say all this while not really believing that Jenny pulled a disappearing act.

And yes, who are the witnesses who have declared the current sighting by the group member to be credible? Knowing that would explain a lot.

http://www.skilledsurvival.com/how-to-disappear-completely/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/06/130625-edward-snowden-travel-disappear-off-grid/

 

[jellybean96]

And yes, who are the witnesses who have declared the current sighting by the group member to be credible? Knowing that would explain a lot.

I asked on the FB page when JR first claimed to have interviewed the witnesses that saw Jenny. I forget the exact wording but he implied there were other people with him. I specifically asked who was with him when he interviewed the witness - was it the PI, LE, etc. He deleted my question with no response. Why not just tell who was with him? He would have more credibility with me if he did.

 

[webant]

BBM

I agree that JR probably didn’t believe the “still traveling” claim for those reasons. He said as much. But the same circumstances regarding banking, telephone and communication hold true now, 18 months later...and he’s all in and investigating the new claim thoroughly. The only differences I can see are that the new sighting report comes from a private citizen, not LE, and by now he’s repeatedly hit a brick wall with the Corona driver...compelling differences, for sure.

But plenty of people purposely disappear without using their bank or phone. Whitey Bulger for one. There are websites that explain how to do it. So it just seemed strange to me that JR was so dismissive at that time. The evidence about the Corona driver must have been rock solid for him not to think it was necessary to investigate the “still traveling” claim simultaneously. Perhaps his PI discouraged that. Or else it was investigated and he never said. And I say all this while not really believing that Jenny pulled a disappearing act.

And yes, who are the witnesses who have declared the current sighting by the group member to be credible? Knowing that would explain a lot.

http://www.skilledsurvival.com/how-to-disappear-completely/

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2013/06/130625-edward-snowden-travel-disappear-off-grid/

It could also be that JR had what he considered a much better lead in the truck driver, limited funds to put to his effort, and the perceived possibility that by going after the driver with everything he had, he might be able to save Jenny.

 

[Lilibet]

I asked on the FB page when JR first claimed to have interviewed the witnesses that saw Jenny. I forget the exact wording but he implied there were other people with him. I specifically asked who was with him when he interviewed the witness - was it the PI, LE, etc. He deleted my question with no response. Why not just tell who was with him? He would have more credibility with me if he did.

That’s right! I forgot you asked. Deleting your question was weird. At least just say that he needs to keep that info to himself to protect their privacy. Or say “trusted friends.” I doubt it was his PI or attorney or he would have said so. I’m not sure the PI and attorney are still on the “payroll.” I don’t think JR is at all fluent in Spanish, so at the very least it would have to be paid interpreters or volunteer Mexican friends of Jenny in Mexico City or Puebla. Would they or JR know what questions to ask to establish credibility? I doubt it.
JMO

 

[Lilibet]

It could also be that JR had what he considered a much better lead in the truck driver, limited funds to put to his effort, and the perceived possibility that by going after the driver with everything he had, he might be able to save Jenny.

You make excellent points. I’m no doubt looking at this through my own mentality of “leave no stone unturned” even if it’s a long shot. I should know by now that JR doesn’t think like I do. I would like to think that he didn’t just reject the report without knowing for sure it was a lie. His anger when it was revealed was a bit strange IMO. But again, he doesn’t think the way I do...and that doesn’t make him wrong.

 

[southlanecherry]

I actually don't agree with this. Yes, there are many dialects in China but most people are competent of speaking Mandarin which is the official language of China. They may speak certain dialect to their family, but when at work or in public, mandarin is the commonly spoken dialect.

I noticed that Jenny was communicating with her Chinese friend via WeChat in Egnlish, and THAT itself is strange and strong reason for Chinese to despise her. When two Chinese people (given that their Chinese are both fluent) converse together and choose to use English, this is often seen as unpatriotic act. Most of my friends grew up abroad speaking perfect English, but we still speak Chinese to each other. We may throw one or two words of English in there, but mainly Chinese.

The same often happens in India with people who speak either Hindi or Kannada, but not both. They best communicate in English.

 

[southlanecherry]

Yes, I agree.

Personally, I believe this is exactly how ti went down.