MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

We know that mom texted Ethan after the shootings and dad reported the gun missing and that their son may be the shooter. What did they do next? Go to the school or sit and wait for the next shoe to fall.

Go get 4K from an ATM?

 

[LMDlong]

This kid was crying out for help . If your child has issues or something is not right then a gun is not the right thing to purchase for spending time together. IMO

EC’ parents remind me of the mother of the Sandy Hook shooter .

 

[happyday]

Poor students.
High school is hard enough without fearing becoming someones live round target practice.

My daughter was in therapy all throughout high school for her extreme fear of not IF but WHEN she was going to be shot. She’s definitely not the only kid with that particular anxiety either.

 

[CrimeAway]

Did the time of the event coincide with the countdown clock? I would think getting pulled out of class, having parents called in, being questioned might have been stressful. Also thinking that maybe your plans that day might be thwarted by a search? Did he wait for the time later because of the clock?

The countdown clock was said to be unrelated by the Sheriff. This was during one of the PCs I watched.

 

[Sundog]

Mom faces felony charges after son brought a gun to school

This is an interesting article that initially talks about the charges that an Indiana mother faced following a school shooting by her son, but then reports on other cases and how parents were charged relating to school shootings by their children, in various states, and the factors that played into the decisions to prosecute.

 

[MsMarple]

School counselors told the parents they must seek counseling for their son within 48 hours, otherwise the school would contact Child Protective Services, Throne wrote.
When asked to take their child home for the rest of the day, Throne said the student's parents "flatly refused," leaving their son behind to "return to work." And because the student had no prior disciplinary actions on his record, school counselors decided to allow him to return to his class, rather than send him to what they thought would be an empty home, Throne explained.
...
Throne noted the decision to send the student back to class was not shared with the principal or assistant principal.
Oxford High School shooting: School district releases details of key events - CNN

While sending Ethan back to class may not have been the wisest decision it seems like school officials were caught between a rock and a hard place.

IMO the bigger mistake was not searching his backpack - they could have gotten permission directly from his parents during the meeting. Even if Ethan had stashed the gun elsewhere his journal describing his intentions of shooting students would have been found.

 

[dkryder]

the mom and dad seemed to me to be negligent on just about every level. the kid today was mostly likely influenced by the family life they provided. the mom reportedly texting the kid he needs to learn how not to get caught. the dad reportedly buying a gun for the kid. mom and dad reportedly refusing to take the kid home. mom and dad leaving the gun in some fashion that the kid was able to get it and take it to school. the lawyers now state the gun "was locked up" jeez, doesn't really matter if at some point the gun "was" locked up but that it was no longer locked up because mom and dad created the situation where the kid could "unlock" the gun and have it at school. mom and dad reportedly turning their phones off and leaving town without telling anyone where they plan to go. then these two lawyers from the same firm representing mom and dad and all of them state to the court there is no conflict of interest. of course mom and dad can say now they understand but mom and dad, imo, have shown already that they have very little understanding of parenting so how could they possibly understand that there could, and most likely will, be a conflict of interest? neither mom or dad is very intelligent, imo. i fully expect that once the crumbley's can of worms life they have starts to unravel we will see a conflict of interest. then what? i had my fingers crossed that the "very strange crime" plate was full for the year 2021 the week before thanksgiving and my mind and emotions could just deal with then current cases. like maybe just the Ghislaine Maxwell case through the holidays. no such luck.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

Mom faces felony charges after son brought a gun to school

This is an interesting article that initially talks about the charges that an Indiana mother faced following a school shooting by her son, but then reports on other cases and how parents were charged relating to school shootings by their children, in various states, and the factors that played into the decisions to prosecute.

Wow, very interesting. The common theme seems to be in so many of these cases there were obvious red flags, direct statements and warnings of the shooters wanting to commit violence but the parents took no actions, made no changes to prevent them having access to the guns in their home. I think it is time that accountability is extended to beyond the shooter to the gun owners when there is direct knowledge of threats, mental instability.

 

[Loveallmyhorsesdogsandcats]

School counselors told the parents they must seek counseling for their son within 48 hours, otherwise the school would contact Child Protective Services, Throne wrote.
When asked to take their child home for the rest of the day, Throne said the student's parents "flatly refused," leaving their son behind to "return to work." And because the student had no prior disciplinary actions on his record, school counselors decided to allow him to return to his class, rather than send him to what they thought would be an empty home, Throne explained.
...
Throne noted the decision to send the student back to class was not shared with the principal or assistant principal.
Oxford High School shooting: School district releases details of key events - CNN

While sending Ethan back to class may not have been the wisest decision it seems like school officials were caught between a rock and a hard place.

IMO the bigger mistake was not searching his backpack - they could have gotten permission directly from his parents during the meeting. Even if Ethan had stashed the gun elsewhere his journal describing his intentions of shooting students would have been found.

I don’t think schools need permission to search a backpack when they’re given reasonable cause such as that drawing and the previous days search for ammunition which indicates that he most likely had a gun.

 

[ilovewings]

the mom and dad seemed to me to be negligent on just about every level. the kid today was mostly likely influenced by the family life they provided. the mom reportedly texting the kid he needs to learn how not to get caught. the dad reportedly buying a gun for the kid. mom and dad reportedly refusing to take the kid home. mom and dad leaving the gun in some fashion that the kid was able to get it and take it to school. the lawyers now state the gun "was locked up" jeez, doesn't really matter if at some point the gun "was" locked up but that it was no longer locked up because mom and dad created the situation where the kid could "unlock" the gun and have it at school. mom and dad reportedly turning their phones off and leaving town without telling anyone where they plan to go. then these two lawyers from the same firm representing mom and dad and all of them state to the court there is no conflict of interest. of course mom and dad can say now they understand but mom and dad, imo, have shown already that they have very little understanding of parenting so how could they possibly understand that there could, and most likely will, be a conflict of interest? neither mom or dad is very intelligent, imo. i fully expect that once the crumbley's can of worms life they have starts to unravel we will see a conflict of interest. then what? i had my fingers crossed that the "very strange crime" plate was full for the year 2021 the week before thanksgiving and my mind and emotions could just deal with then current cases. like maybe just the Ghislaine Maxwell case through the holidays. no such luck.

I really like your thought process- you summarized the issues so well

 

[ilovewings]

the mom and dad seemed to me to be negligent on just about every level. the kid today was mostly likely influenced by the family life they provided. the mom reportedly texting the kid he needs to learn how not to get caught. the dad reportedly buying a gun for the kid. mom and dad reportedly refusing to take the kid home. mom and dad leaving the gun in some fashion that the kid was able to get it and take it to school. the lawyers now state the gun "was locked up" jeez, doesn't really matter if at some point the gun "was" locked up but that it was no longer locked up because mom and dad created the situation where the kid could "unlock" the gun and have it at school. mom and dad reportedly turning their phones off and leaving town without telling anyone where they plan to go. then these two lawyers from the same firm representing mom and dad and all of them state to the court there is no conflict of interest. of course mom and dad can say now they understand but mom and dad, imo, have shown already that they have very little understanding of parenting so how could they possibly understand that there could, and most likely will, be a conflict of interest? neither mom or dad is very intelligent, imo. i fully expect that once the crumbley's can of worms life they have starts to unravel we will see a conflict of interest. then what? i had my fingers crossed that the "very strange crime" plate was full for the year 2021 the week before thanksgiving and my mind and emotions could just deal with then current cases. like maybe just the Ghislaine Maxwell case through the holidays. no such luck.

I really like your thought process- you summarized the issues so well

 

[beth272]

I had assumed that all social media profiles for the parents had been erased however I just came across the dad's Instagram... can I post the link?

 

[Boxer]

I have wondered if he left them a note at home

A note subsequently destroyed?

 

[minneolo]

IMHO, adhering to the letter of the Michigan law for securing a weapon should be thought of as the minimum standard for safety in a home with children - not as an example of good practice. On many topics ‘not breaking the law’ is far from synonymous with ‘appropriate parenting’.

It’s pretty tough for me to imagine a situation in which blameless/clueless parents manage all of the following in the same ~two week period:
+ Purchase a 9mm handgun which is intended to be used by their son
+ Respond with “lol don’t get caught” in relation to issues at school in relation to searching ammo
+ Choose to believe “video game design” or other excuses for violent imagery / statements
+ Not take the school’s strong recommendation to pull their son from class
+ Not choose to mention that their son has access to a gun when the school raises issues that are linked to weapons
+ Text “don’t do it” (vs. “are you safe?”) in response to a school shooting at their son’s school
+ Turn phones off, withdraw $4k and head to Detroit to hide when news of their own legal trouble becomes known

In my opinion, there is considerably more (electronic?) evidence of the Crumbley parents’ potential involvement / negligence that is driving the charges.

 

[dkryder]

I really like your thought process- you summarized the issues so well

thanks.

 

[Only4Justice]

MOO It was de facto Ethans gun, bought by Dad.
MOO they wanted to give him a gun because...<modsnip> But MOO mostly because as parents they wanted to give a present he really loved.
MOO they were naive in that they could indulge in violent rhetoric with their immature teen, provide killing power and support not following rules generally without creating a extremely dangerous situation.

And MOO the gun might have been in part to try and keep an increasingly alienated Ethan engaged with them, but they disregarded others safety negligently.

Great Post! I agree. Thanks.

 

[Velouria]

Wonder if JC's "Don't do it" text was a late reponse to something Ethan texted her.

Yep. I'm of the belief she was telling him not to kill himself, not to refrain from shooting his fellow students.

 

[Ruminations]

Wow!

This is in response to the time line on post 425 by @Kristin Esq. I lost the quote box.

Not minimizing the behavior of the shooter or his parents, but the school was in the wrong here, IMO, independently of others.

1st, CPS is not a punishment, or an “or else,” tool to control parents. Either the school suspects medical neglect at this time, or it doesn’t.

And either CPS will find that the parents have been neglectful, or not. CPS can only take the info it is given, generally from the school and the parents. The parents do not have to consent to interviews, although it works with family court, not punitive judicial court, and the family court system has the ability to help families. So it is not a situation where the parents have nothing to gain by cooperating, depending on the circumstances.

The parents are far less likely to be forthcoming to CPS, or allow interviews at all, if the agency was introduced like that! The school was inappropriately using CPS; CPS is not the school’s enforcement team. The school was interfering with CPS’s ability to work with the family.

All the school can learn from CPS is if CPS found neglect on their particular allegation or not. CPS is also not the school’s PI.

Personally, I would have told the parents after they declined to follow up themselves that I would like parental consent to get at least a psychological assessment done by the school, to make sure their son is not in pain.

If they declined that I would explain that I plan to immediately call in a CPS report, or even consider calling it in with them in the room, if the interview were not too contentious. I would explain that I don’t feel comfortable that the child is safe and not in pain, given the drawing, and especially since the parents are not getting him psychologically assessed.

I would explain that CPS is going to want to make sure the child is safe, they are not a punitive agency. That it could be a helpful agency, possibly with ideas the school, the child and the parents haven’t thought of- and recommend that the parents and child are honest and make use of the investigation to meet their needs. I would re-iterate that I am not trying to stress out the kid or the parents, but just trying to make sure he is okay.

In the meantime, the superintendent was off base when he said he couldn’t send the kid home against the parents wishes since he didn’t have any prior disciplinary issues. At that point, he hadn’t done anything wrong, still. The superintendent kind of confirms that they were going for an “informal suspension” rather than saying your kiddo is displaying symptoms that need to be checked out. If the kid were physically ill, and the parents would not bring him home, they would probably isolate him in a nurses office. They should have done the same for this explicit expression of pain by the kid, although maybe it would be more appropriate to supervise him non punitively elsewhere, not with a school nurse. This was an acute non-disciplinary issue. WTF does his disciplinary record, spotless, atrocious, or anything in between have to do with anything?


IMO. MOO.

 

[borndem]

Also we have to remember the school wasn’t aware of his new gun like his parents were.

Yes, the kid with a new toy... I'm guessing he was, on the one hand, anxious to try it out on something besides a target on a piece of paper; he had fired it and knew what an amazing weapon it was. He certainly knew that the Sig was not designed for bird or deer hunting.
He also knew that what he was thinking about doing was wrong.

His parents left him at school that day, and he was probably exited about his new "project," and he was probably a bit unsure about what to do. But he got his nerve up -- it had to be done -- and eventually he went to the bathroom and got his weapon of destruction.
I do wonder, however, if or what he thought about what would happen afterwards... Did he plan to shoot himself, too, or did he just want to stand proud of what he did?

 

[beth272]

Has this article been posted...

Bouchard was asked Friday about Throne’s comments.

“Certainly, after the second encounter in the morning, I believe it was more than appropriate and necessary (to contact law enforcement), based on the content of what was seen on the second day,” Bouchard said. “Clearly, I believe that that would have been appropriate, and I also know that our school resource officer would have asked him to be removed from school while that counseling or whatever was ordered by the school takes place.”

Bouchard said the resource officer would have escorted Crumbley from the school and made sure he didn’t have any weapons on him.

Sheriff believes Oxford High School should have told police about suspect’s behavior before shooting