MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[Boxer]

Artist comes forward about Crumbleys' whereabouts after their capture, lawyer says

... [Andrzej] Sikora’s name and phone number were listed outside the basement room where they were apprehended. ...

Mural depicts restaurant founder | Oxford Leader

 

[Doghairrules]

This had a few tidbits I was not previously aware of:

Dramatic Day Reveals Details About the Parents of a School Shooting Suspect

On Nov. 29, Mr. Throne wrote, a teacher saw Ethan Crumbley viewing images of bullets on his cellphone during class. A counselor and a staff member met with him, and he indicated that shooting sports were a family hobby, the letter said. The school tried to contact Ms. Crumbley but did not hear back right away. The next day, the parents confirmed their son’s account, the letter said.

The teacher, Mr. Throne said, notified school counselors and the dean of students. The student was immediately removed from the classroom and taken to the guidance counselor’s office, where he claimed the drawing was part of a video game he was designing, Mr. Throne said.

After the student’s parents arrived, school officials asked “specific probing questions” regarding the student’s potential to harm others or himself, Mr. Throne said. His answers, which were confirmed by his parents, led counselors to conclude that he did not intend to hurt anyone, the superintendent said.

 

[Ruminations]

My two children attend Oxford High School and were barricaded in classrooms on Tuesday. Thankfully, they were physically unharmed and did not hear the shots nor see any of the resulting victims, etc. We are all still in shock and mourning the loss of those four precious lives. Our close-knit community has been rocked to its core.

My son actually knows the student that perpetrated the deer head incident, which so surprised and upset my son at the time it occurred. Tuesday’s shooter was NOT involved in that at all.

However, as the weeks have progressed this semester both of my kids had commented that there was just a very negative vibe at the school, with several odd incidents.

The two Thursday evenings prior to Thanksgiving they told us that there were rumors circulating about a shooting that would begin the next day at 12:50pm (the start of passing time before 5th hour). My husband and I said “what shooter would warn the school so specifically if maximum harm is the intention,” and sent them off to school. Personally, I think the shooter began at 12:50 because that would have been the first time after his parents refused to bring him home that all lunches would be finished and the hallways most crowded. I do not think the earlier threats were related to the shooter. However, only time will tell.

The vigil held here Friday night was terrifying. It was the first time my son left the house and to have hundreds of people screaming and running toward us - knowing the shooter’s parents were still at large and the Waukesha tragedy still fresh - left my kids traumatized once again. There were no speakers for the majority of us so we could not hear the pleas for calm. When we saw that mass of humanity coming at us the fear of being trampled was inescapable. These OHS students who three days earlier hunkered down in classrooms had that same instinct as the panic erupted. These kids, including my daughter, were crying so hard. It was heartbreaking! Thank goodness nobody was seriously injured but having lived through the pressing of people against us and into walls of buildings, seeing young children on the ground being protected by their moms, hearing people calling out for their children/friends, and seeing the empty shoes littering the street, it’s as if the nightmare keeps going on.

Wow. I saw that tick talk video on MSM news well after it was established that the knocking person was a sheriff. I couldn’t help but marvel at how well those teens handled a life threatening situation- politely and in a voice that would not have escalated a situation, “We are not ready for that.” Amazing! Every teen stayed safe and calm in a situation where calm is safer, but manic terror is understandable. They calmly trusted their feelings; it does not matter that they were not correct about their conclusion that the person trying to enter the room could not be trusted. What is amazing is their decision making process under life-threatening attack.

It really gave me an impressive display of the OHS student-body stock.

As if my gawking at their heroism is what the OHS student community needs right now. I am so sorry for all the lives lost, threatened, and traumatized.

 

[beth272]

Good question. I am trying to find the information. I found this so far:

Michigan House Votes To Increase Funding For School Resource Officers After Oxford High School Shooting

Ok, so they don't have a full time officer posted at the high school? That seems crazy to me! I live in Eastern NC and our elementary and middle schools have a shared SRO, the high schools have 2 full time officers assigned to that school every day all day. This is a school district with not a lot of money, I can't believe that this school didn't have a full time officer on campus

 

[KMouse]

Yes, both the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel and The Ambassador Bridge go to Canada. Neither allows pedestrians.
Detroit-Windsor Tunnel | Home
Main Page Ambassador Bridge

You can actually see Detroit from Windsor and vice versa. I don't see how they would successfully cross though. And I would think trying to cross the Detroit river illegally even a small boat would be quickly spotted.

I suppose there's also a possibility they were trying to arrange transportation to some other place in the US.

Maybe they had read all the news from a few years back where people were walking across the border in droves so much that there are paths.

Do you know if the river freezes over in winter? I'm in Wisconsin and people drive cars across lakes -yes, lakes! in the winter.

I'm in a much colder area of Canada and the lakes and rivers are just starting to freeze enough where you can walk on them. Windsor would have very cold water and I don't think it's a fishing community or there would be people out recreational bosting this time of year.

 

[esayer]

Their attorney said that they had to get away from their home because of threats against them. My understanding is that the art studio that their friend allowed them to stay in was 44 miles from their home.

LOL as if they can be believed.

 

[Doghairrules]

So both parents left school and went directly back to work?
Lightbulb didn’t go off in their head?
New gun, looking up ammo, violent concerning drawing...”Honey, go by the house and check on Ethan’s gun on your way back to work, okay?”

Right. These people are either the most oblivious parents ever seen or they just couldn’t be bothered enough to give a s***. MOO

Also, and I’m not defending his actions, but can you imagine being 15 years old in an adult prison and now your parents can’t even visit you because all they can think about is themselves? I wonder who and when someone will tell Ethan what his “parents” did.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ok, so they don't have a full time officer posted at the high school? That seems crazy to me! I live in Eastern NC and our elementary and middle schools have a shared SRO, the high schools have 2 full time officers assigned to that school every day all day. This is a school district with not a lot of money, I can't believe that this school didn't have a full time officer on campus

Found this:

Like many schools across the country, Oxford High School has a police officer assigned to patrol its halls and campus.

On Tuesday, according to a law enforcement official, that deputy and a responding deputy disarmed and arrested a 15-year-old student who is accused of killing three fellow students and wounding eight others, including a teacher.

Police school liaison officer: 'Most important position in department'

 

[KMouse]

regarding the part that I bolded....this is so sad to me that there are security officers there when kids are called to the office. The fact that there is a high enough risk that something might happen is concerning to me.

I don't think this is the protocol here in Canada. (however my kids graduated long ago, so I might not be current on this. Please correct me if you know differently.) Then again we don't have shooter drills and guns are much less common. So the risk is much less that a student would have a gun/rifle.

My kids' school had a school resource officer but then budget cuts took that away.

 

[beth272]

Police school liaison officer: 'Most important position in department'

Found this:

Like many schools across the country, Oxford High School has a police officer assigned to patrol its halls and campus.

On Tuesday, according to a law enforcement official, that deputy and a responding deputy disarmed and arrested a 15-year-old student who is accused of killing three fellow students and wounding eight others, including a teacher.

Ok, so they do have one and they were there... so no excuse really for the counselor handling this situation not to inform the SRO.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

This is interesting.

After reading all the posts I mulled on the idea of the drawing.
I concluded - either EC was in desperate need of help - NOT schizophrenia (too young), but possibly a psychotic episode or drug related psychosis manifesting in hearing voices telling him to act out instructions.

OR.

The drawing was a goading, mocking, malevolent and sinister act designed as a threat. Part of his fantasy. And possibly 'pretending' to be mentally ill.

I now conclude the latter.

JMO MOO

Agree 100%. His reported total calmness when taken to the counselor's office and questioned supports this view. If he had been crying out for help with his words / drawing, you'd think he would have broken down in the office and begged for help, especially after his parents arrived.

I'm afraid his dead eyes in his mugshot tell the whole story.

JMO

 

[Ray_of_hope]

School counselors told the parents they must seek counseling for their son within 48 hours, otherwise the school would contact Child Protective Services, Throne wrote.
When asked to take their child home for the rest of the day, Throne said the student's parents "flatly refused," leaving their son behind to "return to work." And because the student had no prior disciplinary actions on his record, school counselors decided to allow him to return to his class, rather than send him to what they thought would be an empty home, Throne explained.
...
Throne noted the decision to send the student back to class was not shared with the principal or assistant principal.
Oxford High School shooting: School district releases details of key events - CNN

While sending Ethan back to class may not have been the wisest decision it seems like school officials were caught between a rock and a hard place.

IMO the bigger mistake was not searching his backpack - they could have gotten permission directly from his parents during the meeting. Even if Ethan had stashed the gun elsewhere his journal describing his intentions of shooting students would have been found.

I wonder if EC's parents would have refused the request to search his backpack. They seem like the type of parents that protect their child under any circumstance.

 

[Cool Cats]

Ok, so they do have one and they were there... so no excuse really for the counselor handling this situation not to inform the SRO.

Wow! Should have been standard procedure. Why even have a School Resource Officer if the counselor isn't even in contact with them?

Exceptional point.

 

[beth272]

Wow! Should have been standard procedure. Why even have a SRO if the counselor isn't even in contact with them?

Exactly!!! To me, in my opinion, this counselor just didn't want to deal with it, blew it off, didn't want backlash from his parents and didn't take it seriously. This is my opinion from my viewpoint, they clearly did not follow standard procedures when handling a troubled child exhibiting violent behavior.

 

[KMouse]

Right. These people are either the most oblivious parents ever seen or they just couldn’t be bothered enough to give a s***. MOO

Also, and I’m not defending his actions, but can you imagine being 15 years old in an adult prison and now your parents can’t even visit you because all they can think about is themselves? I wonder who and when someone will tell Ethan what his “parents” did.

Lots of jails have televisions in the common area so he may have known fairly early on. Sucks to be his parents because now they won't be able to visit their son in jail.

I watched the arraignment that was posted and the Mom is crying for herself while the Dad is scoffing at the statements from the prosecutors office.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Nessel offers AG review of Oxford school shooting

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel used Twitter Sunday morning to announce her offer to conduct a review of the Nov. 30 shooting at Oxford High School that left four students dead and injured seven others.
Nessel responded to a request from Oxford Community School District Superintendent Tim Throne for a third-party review of the incident and the events leading up to it. ...

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

Bodhi- please do not get me to write out the entire defense strategy for them. Let’s just say:

There are understandable reasons why phones could have been turned off. They may have given trusted sources an alternate contact.

BUT it seems like there was quite a stretch (how long?) where even their lawyers couldn’t reach them?? THAT seems problematic.

But there’s really no legal strategy involved. LE has no obligation to arrange things when someone is charged. It’s a courtesy not a mandate.

An arraignment was scheduled. They didn’t show. Why isn’t LE’s issue. Whether they were hiding or visiting, they were subject to apprehension. And all the defense “spin” is just that.

 

[Cool Cats]

Lots of jails have televisions in the common area so he may have known fairly early on. Sucks to be his parents because now they won't be able to visit their son in jail.

I watched the arraignment that was posted and the Mom is crying for herself while the Dad is scoffing at the statements from the prosecutors office.

The Sheriff said Ethan is in isolation and they didn't tell him anything about his parents. Since the news conference he could have been told. He is on suicide watch, same for parents, protocol.

There is no TV in his cell I believe. TV is in common room.

 

[MimosaMornings]

School Gunman’s ‘Fugitive’ Parents Laugh, Cry in Court After Wild Manhunt

I didn’t know the father was disabled?
From the letter only 5 years ago....

“My husband suffered a stroke and a broken back and we were with just my income. Do you know how hard it is to support a family on only $40,000 a year? I couldn’t qualify for State Aid. I made to much.”

“I sacrifice car insurance to make sure my son gets a good education and hopefully succeeds in life.”

She sounds like a VERY angry woman. Appears proud of her ability to use the F word on a consistent basis in a written document.
A marketing director wrote that letter?

That’s an expensive Christmas gift.
Wonder why they gave it to him so early?
JMO

 

[HawthorneJuniper]

Crumbley family all behind bars in Oxford High School shootings

Right, and furthermore, what kind of parents would have their phones turned off when they have a 15-year old son in jail for murder?

It’s not just they who are in trouble, it’s their child!!! How could anyone just cut off contact like that under these circumstances?
They clearly are demonstrating a total lack of concern for helping Ethan in any way.

Someone, I think maybe @otto, ???, said earlier that the father didn’t raise three children to be school shooters. Well, the father abandoned the first two children so they were not, in fact, raised by him. Then of his three children, Ethan is the only one who had this mother.

IMO this was a very combustible pairing and definitely impacted Ethan. Although I’m always cautious because so many decent parents have a child who turns out to commit crimes, in this case the parents’ lack of care seems very obvious. The mother’s texts especially show a detachment from parental guidance, IMO.

I found this reporting interesting in terms of the parenting involved here:

“A former neighbor told the Free Press she had concerns about their parenting long before Tuesday's tragedy.

Jennifer and James Crumbley often left their young son home alone while drinking at bars in downtown Lake Orion in 2014 and 2015, former neighbor Kayla LeMieux said. The boy would have been between 8 and 9 years old at that time.

The couple, who records show married in 2005, lived near downtown Lake Orion before moving to Oxford.”
Crumbley family all behind bars in Oxford High School shootings