MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* #2

[passionflower]

He is locked down all the time on suicide watch. Probably allowed a shower and well, nothing else.

No sheets, no shoe laces, nothing that would help suicide, parents too. What a life! No thanks. They watch them like a hawk I think even going to the bathroom ! I can’t even imagine!

 

[passionflower]

I hope the neighbor takes it and displays it with more respect, but that's just me.

Trespassing on a crime scene watched and in and out by law enforcement. I doubt anyone can touch it. Sadly.

 

[Chelly]

Yes. He is a minor and when he talks to his lawyer he has a right to ask to see his parents and then will find out his parents are in the same jail complex as him.

Not sure if the parents lost their legal right to have contact with him. They are still his legal guardians.

The sheriff clearly stated in yesterday's news conference that they will all remain separated and have absolutely no contact with each other. I suspect they will pass notes to one another via their lawyers. (like kids do in school)

 

[Cool Cats]

Trespassing on a crime scene watched and in and out by law enforcement. I doubt anyone can touch it. Sadly.

LE did a search and removed many items. The search Warrant expires, they won't keep going back.

They won't watch the house now that the family has been arrested. The neighbor probably keeps an eye on things.

They may have people they know to help out with the house and their affairs through their lawyer's help.

People in jail have their lawyer's counsel in coordinating their affairs.

 

[kaen]

Thanks for this.

My question is, why are we talking suspension for the actions before the shooter brandished the gun?

Suspension is a disciplinary action. What was the offense? How could they suspend?

I especially want to pick your brain, given that this is your profession.

IMO, the school tried to get around the “he-didn’t-do-anything” problem by trying to get the parents to self suspend, especially after learning the superintendent referenced the shooters (clean) disciplinary record. IMO, the school did not properly respond to what appeared to be a mental health emergency, and suspension is- off topic.

The school superintendent was the one who said, "...no discipline was warranted." They never said suspension. You can't suspend for thoughts that is true. However in this case, we don't know the school disciplinary code. Some schools advocate the idea that drawings or statements are similar and could be used for disciplinary action up to their discretion.

First tier is a medical issue. In this case, we have words that have been written about the worthlessness of his life and the alluding to the pain he was in--- in concert with drawing that alludes to a person being shot. While he may not have required a disciplinary actions, he may have been eligible for a medical consult if the counselors said that his behavior concerns were beyond their ability to assess. I certainly would not want to use my level of training (on my own) to determine a student's state of mind if the materials he produced had such violent images.

Second tier is a school safety issue. The school could have turned this over to a resource officer to determine if he had any weapons on him. He was drawing scenes of violence with bullets and had looked up ammunition. I read somewhere that the school knew that he had access to fire arms. So..... they could have required that his belongings and locker be searched as he had given a reasonable suspicion with the drawing.

Many in schools bow to parental pressure on many fronts. These parents refusing/declining to take him with a caveat that he be seen within 48 hours is a bridge to far for me. If he needed to be assessed within the 48 why not require the consult that day.

All of this said, my institution would most likely have called an ambulance and let an emergency psychiatric consult determine what was happening with the resource officer looking for any weapons on his person or locker. And had the family meet him at the ER, especially since they would not be available for more than an hour. And, the mother didn't respond to the ammunition search reach out that had happened.

This kid was clearly struggling as he produced those images. It was in the depictions and the words. He was reaching out. Being calm in the office is not uncommon with kids who want to self-harm or do harm to others. Yes, there is often the heightened anger states but it is not always the case. He was talking about needing help and no one helped him. Of course, he started looking for his school work because he had to normalize and do what was expected of him. And, lastly, he may not have felt comfortable having this kind of conversation about his internal pain with his parents. By waiting for them and making them highly included, he might have decided that he had no other choice than to go forward with his plan to kill people.

 

[Facinatingtimes]

I am not a school counselor... an oncology nurse, however, I check almost everyone's social media that I come across. My kids think I am weird, however I learn quite a bit about their friends, their parents, coaches, teachers, doctors, you name it I find it... if I was the counselor handling EC that day, or the teacher that found the drawing, you best believe I'd be checking out his social media accounts ASAP!! If they had done that they would have seen his intentions that fateful day

I like your approach, but I’m curious how you do this (because I don’t use SM very much). Facebook I get, as long as people use their actual names, right? Can you search people on IG? Do they have to be using their actual names? Snapchat messages disappear, don’t they? Tell me your secrets!

 

[Cinna]

I had a couple thoughts about the drawing. The page looked like this:

A drawing of a gun pointed at the words "the thoughts won't stop" and "help me"
A drawing of a bloody body with 2 bullet holes
"blood everywhere"
A drawing of a bullet
"my life is useless" to the right of that are the words "the world is dead"

This seems almost a progression of what happened. He has the gun. His thoughts won't stop. A student says "help me". He shoots them twice and there is blood everywhere. The bullets are flying. He feels his life is useless. And finally, it's over. The world is dead.

So in this interpretation, the "help me" is said by his victims, not by him.

My second thought is about how he altered the picture. He scratched out everything but:

The thoughts won't stop
The bullet
The world is dead.

I'm not sure what I think about that yet, but it's interesting. Seems like a condensed version of what happened.

MOO

 

[Cool Cats]

I had a couple thoughts about the drawing. The page looked like this:

A drawing of a gun pointed at the words "the thoughts won't stop" and "help me"
A drawing of a bloody body with 2 bullet holes
"blood everywhere"
A drawing of a bullet
"my life is useless" to the right of that are the words "the world is dead"

This seems almost a progression of what happened. He has the gun. His thoughts won't stop. A student says "help me". He shoots them twice and there is blood everywhere. The bullets are flying. He feels his life is useless. And finally, it's over. The world is dead.

So in this interpretation, the "help me" is said by his victims, not by him.

My second thought is about how he altered the picture. He scratched out everything but:

The thoughts won't stop
The bullet
The world is dead.

I'm not sure what I think about that yet, but it's interesting. Seems like a condensed version of what happened.

"The world is dead."

The world is more dead in a cell. He knows that right now .

No video games.
No phones.
No social media interactions.
No family gun time.
No soft bed.
No family dinners.
No Christmas, maybe an inmate Christmas Package in regular prison when his parents get out.
No more school. Maybe GED in prison.

ETC......

 

[kaen]

The world is more dead in prison. He knows that right now .

No video games.
No phones.
No social media interactions.
No family gun time.
No soft bed.
No family dinners.

ETC......

Or, his world may be easier. We don't know what was happening in his head. Maybe he didn't want the family dinners or gun time. Maybe he felt too much pressure to be someone or something he couldn't handle. Maybe he felt like he was disappointing himself and his family. Maybe social media and online video games were a source of deadening but not enjoyment.

I think he is responsible for his actions. But, I can clearly see that he needs psychological help because something big is happening in his head and his parents have not answered his call for help.

 

[passionflower]

Will EC View his parents as hero’s to his cause or traitors? His mind is so messed up will this make him worse? No comment from other family members? People afraid of all of them? No family or close friends?

 

[bestill]

What is next for EC and do we have the name of his attorney? I can't find it.

 

[KMouse]

"The world is dead."

The world is more dead in a cell. He knows that right now .

No video games.
No phones.
No social media interactions.
No family gun time.
No soft bed.
No family dinners.
No Christmas, maybe an inmate Christmas Package in regular prison when his parents get out.
No more school. Maybe GED in prison.

ETC......

No meal choices. You get what you get: fat and starch.
No bathroom or shower privacy even worse if you are in suicide watch.
It smells like *advertiser censored*.
You're told when it's time to go to bed and time to get up.
If you're allowed to watch TV in the common area you watch what everyone wants to watch and there's no Netflix.

 

[Arkay]

I wonder if EC's parents would have refused the request to search his backpack. They seem like the type of parents that protect their child under any circumstance.

IMO they seem like the type of parents who protect THEMSELVES under any circumstances.

If they were protecting their CHILD:

1) they would have raced to the school the instant the school called them that there were issues, instead of waiting for an hour and a half.

2) viewing the drawing in which it might have been inferred that Ethan was suicidal, they would have proactively gotten him mental help. Professional help, like a pysch hold.

3) they would not have fled, leaving a 15- year old to cope alone with what he'd done, and with being imprisoned.

4)they would never have turned off their phones, which prohibited the jail from reaching them on Ethan's behalf.

5) if the reports are true that they went out drinking in bars and left Ethan alone at aged 8 or so....well, I don't even have to finish my sentence.

All JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Or, his world may be easier. We don't know what was happening in his head. Maybe he didn't want the family dinners or gun time. Maybe he felt too much pressure to be someone or something he couldn't handle. Maybe he felt like he was disappointing himself and his family. Maybe social media and online video games were a source of deadening but not enjoyment.

I think he is responsible for his actions. But, I can clearly see that he needs psychological help because something big is happening in his head and his parents have not answered his call for help.

He was lucid enough to enjoy shopping for his gun with dad, enjoy shooting with mom, playing games, posting on SM and doing his school work, even going to school. I do not think his new reality will be easier, just way harder.

According to someone who knew him best:

Brother of Ethan Crumbley says he never exhibited violent tendencies | Daily Mail Online

'The Ethan I knew was just a smart boy who just seemed like an average kid,' he said in an interview on Wednesday. 'There was nothing that ever stood out to me. He'd never get suspended from school, or detention.

'He didn't suffer depression or anything like that. He woke up happy, went to school, came home and played games.'

Eli, 18, (left) and Ethan, 15, (right) have the same father, but different mothers. The two boys grew up in Florida but later moved to Michigan with their dad James Crumbley and his second wife, Ethan's mom, Jennifer

Ethan (pictured with his father, brother, and stepmom)

Swarms of police officers swooped in and arrested the suspected gunman within five minutes.

 

[Willow Knight]

Sheriff Michael Bouchard of Oakland County MI was just interviewed live on MSNBC. The shooter and his parents are in his jail. Bouchard said the demeanor of all three is "sullen" and showing "no remorse".

No remorse! With that attitude it would not surprise me if this was just the beginning of their chosen path. No remorse makes me uneasy. What future actions could they be capable of, I hope they stay within Homeland security's radar.

 

[kaen]

He was lucid enough to enjoy shopping for his gun with dad, enjoy shooting with mom, playing games, posting on SM and doing his school work, even going to school. I do not think his new reality will be easier, just way harder.

According to someone who knew him best:

Brother of Ethan Crumbley says he never exhibited violent tendencies | Daily Mail Online

Eli, 18, (left) and Ethan, 15, (right) have the same father, but different mothers. The two boys grew up in Florida but later moved to Michigan with their dad James Crumbley and his second wife, Ethan's mom, Jennifer

Ethan (pictured with his father, brother, and stepmom)

Swarms of police officers swooped in and arrested the suspected gunman within five minutes.

I just said maybe easier-- psychologically . I think he was and is lucid. And, I think he is responsible for his actions. But, that doesn't mean that he doesn't need psychological help. Just because the family photos look good, it doesn't mean that things are good ( I know from my own family.).

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Michigan shooting suspect is among thousands of U.S. minors charged as adults yearly

This article discusses the pros and cons of charging juveniles as adults. For me, when a crime is so heinous as this one, I believe the juvenile should be charged as an adult. I believe he committed an adult crime regardless of his age.

Totally agree. If you're old enough to willfully commit an adult crime - especially one premeditated - you're old enough to suffer the adult consequences.

 

[happyday]

He was lucid enough to enjoy shopping for his gun with dad, enjoy shooting with mom, playing games, posting on SM and doing his school work, even going to school. I do not think his new reality will be easier, just way harder.

According to someone who knew him best:

Brother of Ethan Crumbley says he never exhibited violent tendencies | Daily Mail Online

'The Ethan I knew was just a smart boy who just seemed like an average kid,' he said in an interview on Wednesday. 'There was nothing that ever stood out to me. He'd never get suspended from school, or detention.

'He didn't suffer depression or anything like that. He woke up happy, went to school, came home and played games.'

Eli, 18, (left) and Ethan, 15, (right) have the same father, but different mothers. The two boys grew up in Florida but later moved to Michigan with their dad James Crumbley and his second wife, Ethan's mom, Jennifer

Ethan (pictured with his father, brother, and stepmom)

Swarms of police officers swooped in and arrested the suspected gunman within five minutes.

I can’t help but wonder if he thought by doing what he did he would make his parents proud?

 

[MimosaMornings]

Chilling Journal Found as Teen Gunman’s Parents Are Probed

“Nathan Swanson, a 10th grader who was in some middle-school classes with Crumbley, told The Daily Beast that he was “really quiet, he would never talk to people.”

“He wore all black, I believe he was really into hunting,” Swanson said.”

 

[Cool Cats]

No remorse! With that attitude it would not surprise me if this was just the beginning of their chosen path. No remorse makes me uneasy. What future actions could they be capable of, I hope they stay within Homeland security's radar.

They are going to be locked up for a very long time so their chosen path is jail then prison. Supervised parole later. Not for Ethan. He has a life time of being guarded.