GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen and both parents guilty* #7

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Izzylizzy said:
Any guesses on the Crumbley's sentences?
Will Matthews sentence both the same?
If not,who gets the lighter one?
Will James get extra for his threats to McDonald?

I'd sentence them both to the prosecutors request of a minimum of 10 yrs.
I can see Matthews going with 8 though.
Click to expand...

Wouldn't be right to add on years from saying things over the phone. There is a big difference between talking about revenge and acting on revenge.

He didn't send her letters or ask someone to stalk her or call her directly.

A long sentence doesn't help anyone.

2 Cents
 
Cool Cats said:
Wouldn't be right to add on years from saying things over the phone. There is a big difference between talking about revenge and acting on revenge.

He didn't send her letters or ask someone to stalk her or call her directly.

A long sentence doesn't help anyone.

2 Cents
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I have a more harsh opinion. A long sentence may offer some comfort to the parents of the dead children. There is no discussion about rehab. These two could have saved four lives and chose not to. I am all for the longest sentence possible. I really don't care what the Crumbleys think or care about at this point. Yes, harsh. I'm ok with MOO.
 
Cool Cats said:
They are called Victim Impact Statements, victims speak in court not the family of the defendant.

However, family of the defendant can write letters to the judge which happened with both Crumbleys.

2 Cents
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In some states, family members of the defendant can also make statements at sentencing. Mitigating impact statements, I guess you would call them. That's what I was reffering to, although I used the wrong term.
 
Izzylizzy said:
.
I can see why Smith and Lehman were partners in a law firm.

www.cbsnews.com

James Crumbley wasn't threatening prosecutor Karen McDonald, he was just venting, attorney says

The prosecution is seeking 10 to 15 years in prison for James and Jennifer Crumbley.
www.cbsnews.com www.cbsnews.com
Click to expand...
<snipped for focus>

From the article -

In addition, Lehman asked that an independent prosecutor handle the sentencing of James Crumbley.

She says that the jail calls being used against him in the sentencing are a conflict of interest and that because they are being used, McDonald and others could be called as witnesses.

I think Lehman is doing what any good attorney would do in this situation. I agree that it is a conflict of interest for McDonald to be talking about this threat against her, and she should be removed from the prosecution of his case at this stage becasue of that.
 
Cool Cats said:
Wouldn't be right to add on years from saying things over the phone. There is a big difference between talking about revenge and acting on revenge.

He didn't send her letters or ask someone to stalk her or call her directly.

A long sentence doesn't help anyone.

2 Cents
Click to expand...

Sundog said:
From the article -

In addition, Lehman asked that an independent prosecutor handle the sentencing of James Crumbley.

She says that the jail calls being used against him in the sentencing are a conflict of interest and that because they are being used, McDonald and others could be called as witnesses.

I think Lehman is doing what any good attorney would do in this situation. I agree that it is a conflict of interest for McDonald to be talking about this threat against her, and she should be removed from the prosecution of his case at this stage becasue of that.
Click to expand...
McDonald isn't the one sentencing James.

Threatening government officials of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
Izzylizzy said:
Any guesses on the Crumbley's sentences?
Will Matthews sentence both the same?
If not,who gets the lighter one?
Will James get extra for his threats to McDonald?

I'd sentence them both to the prosecutors request of a minimum of 10 yrs.
I can see Matthews going with 8 though.
Click to expand...
This is MOO. I see them both getting 10 -15 years.

The whole house arrest in the attorney's guest house is a ludicrous pipe dream.

The prosecution could have easily pressed charges for the jail threats James made. That was not, imo, "venting". He made specific statements, addressed to Karen McDonald. I also think he could have been charged with not registering the guns and lying on the application.

But again, MOO.
 
Cool Cats said:
The judge could sentence her to a prison sentence but allow her to serve the sentence on parole instead of in prison because she has served 2 1/2 yrs already.

Or no prison time at all just parole with house arrest.

howtojustice.org

What Is the Difference Between Probation and Parole? - How to Justice

Many people use the terms probation and parole to mean the same thing. They are both a form of custody. But in reality, they are different concepts.
howtojustice.org howtojustice.org
Example....

Probation
Judge sentences her to probarion instead of going to prison.

Parole
Judge sentences her to 5 years and she serves 2 in prison and 3 out on parole. She gets credit for time served, going on 2 1/2 years.

So a 5 year sentence would be like 2 1/2 years when counting the time served.

2 Cents
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I agree, a five year sentence and she has already served 2 1/2 years. I don't thnk the parents should ever have been charged, but since they were and will need to be sentenced, I think 5 years should be the max, with these last 2 1/2 years served as house arrest. She can always be locked up for the remaining time if she screws up her parole.
 
Sundog said:
She makes some good points, IMO.
Click to expand...

"Man who attacked a Nevada judge is sentenced by that same judge to prison for separate incident. Deobra Redden, 30, had his hands, mouth and face covered during his court appearance Monday where he was sentenced to 19 months to 4 years in prison for a charge of attempted battery with substantial bodily harm.Jan 9, 2024

Man who attacked a Nevada judge is sentenced by that same ...​


CNN
https://www.cnn.com › 2024/01/08 › man-sentenced-ne...
 
MrsWatson said:
This is MOO. I see them both getting 10 -15 years.

The whole house arrest in the attorney's guest house is a ludicrous pipe dream.

The prosecution could have easily pressed charges for the jail threats James made. That was not, imo, "venting". He made specific statements, addressed to Karen McDonald. I also think he could have been charged with not registering the guns and lying on the application.

But again, MOO.
Click to expand...
Hear! Hear!
 
Izzylizzy said:
"Man who attacked a Nevada judge is sentenced by that same judge to prison for separate incident. Deobra Redden, 30, had his hands, mouth and face covered during his court appearance Monday where he was sentenced to 19 months to 4 years in prison for a charge of attempted battery with substantial bodily harm.Jan 9, 2024

Man who attacked a Nevada judge is sentenced by that same ...​


CNN
https://www.cnn.com › 2024/01/08 › man-sentenced-ne...
Click to expand...
The judge in this case did not take into account the man who attacked her as she gave her sentence, she made that clear. That would be handled and sentenced by a different judge at a later date. But McDonald, the prosecutor in the James Crumbley case is speaking about the threats in spite of the conflict of interest. Big difference in the two cases and how the courts are handling the issues.
 
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Izzylizzy said:
All Govt. Officials, just as the Wiki title says.
To do so is a felony under federal Law.

Threatening government officials of the United States - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

www.lawinsider.com

Government Officials Definition: 115 Samples | Law Insider

Sample Contracts and Business Agreements
www.lawinsider.com www.lawinsider.com
Click to expand...
I just read the article again, and it appears to refer to federal government officials only, such as president, members of congress, federal judges, federal prosecutors, etc.
 
Sundog said:
In some states, family members of the defendant can also make statements at sentencing. Mitigating impact statements, I guess you would call them. That's what I was reffering to, although I used the wrong term.
Click to expand...
Yes, I watched sentencing last week of Jessy Kurczewski (WI) and her mom and a former inmate made impact statements on Jessy’s behalf (didn’t help lol). Funny those are the same relationships Jennifer will be using!

When the only people willing to speak on your behalf are your mother and a former inmate, that speaks volumes. Where are the friends who grew up with you? Where are Ethan’s friends’ moms who had hung out with JC when their kids had playdates?
 
BrownRice said:
Yes, I watched sentencing last week of Jessy Kurczewski (WI) and her mom and a former inmate made impact statements on Jessy’s behalf (didn’t help lol). Funny those are the same relationships Jennifer will be using!

When the only people willing to speak on your behalf are your mother and a former inmate, that speaks volumes. Where are the friends who grew up with you? Where are Ethan’s friends’ moms who had hung out with JC when their kids had playdates?
Click to expand...
There may be work colleagues as well as others who don't want to speak publicly in favor of either of the accused due to the high public visibility of this case in the community. Even if they have positive things to say about Jennifer, I doubt they would come forward in a situation like this.
 
Sundog said:
There may be work colleagues as well as others who don't want to speak publicly in favor of either of the accused due to the high public visibility of this case in the community. Even if they have positive things to say about Jennifer, I doubt they would come forward in a situation like this.
Click to expand...
Yes, agree. People are surely distancing themselves.

But, a good friend could weather that. Acknowledging that they should have paid more attn to their son and the gun, etc. they are horrified about the deaths of the students etc. And they know a Jennifer who is worthy of compassion. Something. But when just your mom and a girl who murdered their dad are your only options, that’s sad.
 
Sundog said:
The judge in this case did not take into account the man who attacked her as she gave her sentence, she made that clear. That would be handled and sentenced by a different judge at a later date. But McDonald, the prosecutor in the James Crumbley case is speaking about the threats in spite of the conflict of interest. Big difference in the two cases and how the courts are handling the issues.
Click to expand...
Did McDonald file any charges against James?
I haven't read that she or another prosecutor have.
McDonald prosecuting James's threats against her would be a conflict of interest not using them in his sentencing.
I don't recall McDonald asking Matthews to sentence extra time for James because of his threats to her.

James's violations while jailed were already known to the judge and his communication privileges were taken away by the sheriff until after the trial and his threats are being used by prosecutors at his sentencing to show even right before his trial he had no remorse.


Meanwhile his lawyer blatantly lied to the judge
calling his threats "venting".

"When James Crumbley hurled profanity toward the Oakland County prosecutor in jailhouse phone calls, called her a "*advertiser censored*" and warned, "Your *advertiser censored* is going down and you better be f------ scared," he wasn't physically threatening her, his lawyer says."
 
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Izzylizzy said:
Did McDonald file any charges against James?
I haven't read that she or another prosecutor have.
McDonald prosecuting James's threats against her would be a conflict of interest not using them in his sentencing.
I don't recall McDonald asking Matthews to sentence extra time for James because of his threats to her.

James's violations while jailed were already known to the judge and his communication privileges were taken away by the sheriff until after the trial and his threats are being used by prosecutors at his sentencing to show even right before his trial he had no remorse.
Click to expand...
Justice would be to charge him and give him the right to have a defense. By not charging him but using the threat as a factor in his sentencing recommendations strikes me as an abuse of power. But that doesn't surprise me about McDonald.
 
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