GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[Izzylizzy]

What do you think so far?

She's not as nervous as I expected she would be.

Yet, Smith's part is a cakewalk.

 

[Izzylizzy]

She just referred to the substation video and said that in the video, she asks him “Why” and he says “Because I just did. Take care of Dexter for me”. Dexter is his kitten.

Thanks.

Any idea what he said before JC's "Why".

 

[cottonweaver]

What do you think so far?

She's not as nervous as I expected she would be.

Yet, Smith's part is a cakewalk.

It's hard for me to think like an objective juror but personally I think she comes across rather glib.

She has an answer for everything and even without noticing her inconsistent statements I feel she's somebody who is used to minimising and fibbing.

ETA
Also quite cold, selfish and hard

Also feels as if her testimony is just retro fitted for the defense's case. Shannon's not really telling her story. Whole thing feels reactive and yet the thing Jennifer seemed most worried about was just the public seeing photos of messy bedrooms.
She's a full-on FaceBooker - everything is about projection and surface .... but not something a juror might consider and IDK whether the State will use those kinds of themes on cross. ( State could circle back to her previous job role as SM co-ordinator)

 

[Weki]

I have to say these pictures of activities she did with EC help her immensely. The picture the state has painted so far has been bleak. This acts as a counterbalance imo. I’m behind in the feed so….I’m just waiting for cross though. For the fireworks!

JMO

Edited to add: the explanation for her “don’t get caught” text was weird. Agree - starting to sound all reactive and rehearsed to explain everything away. ‘Oh there’s an innocent explanation for everything’ But this is typical of defendant’s testifying - at least the guilty ones.

Edited to add again:
Now we’re at the hallucination texts from EC. JC says it doesn’t stick out to her until discovery for this case. Says she probably didn’t see the texts at the time. She says it wasn’t anything serious - just EC messing around. He’s been convinced house is haunted since they bought it in 2017. Him and his friend would play Ouji board in the basement. And would take videos to convince mom house was haunted/had ghosts. Parents also messed around with EC to make it seem like there were ghosts in the house.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Keep an eye on the prosecution

JC said she must have been driving home from horses when the texts came in with EC saying someone's in the house, door slamming,etc.
That is why she didn't answer him.

iirc: The prosecution has photos she was taking at the same time the texts came in when she was at the barn.

It's hard for me to think like an objective juror but personally I think she comes across rather glib.

She has an answer for everything and even without noticing her inconsistent statements I feel she's somebody who is used to minimising and fibbing.

Excellent summary.
Uh-oh...she's acting /looking weird now, lower voice answering "no" to EC's text messages to friend about calling 911 and needs help etc.

Catch that part if you haven't seen it.

 

[Izzylizzy]

The handgun.
JC wasn't concerned at all on the 26th that James and JC bought the gun.
She was quite annoyed that they weren't home when she returned from Black Friday shopping and them being gone cut into the time they were going to get their Christmas tree.

JC also told boyfriend on morning of 11-30 before Meeting that EC's gun was in her car.
He told her that's a very bad place for it.

"JC also told boyfriend on morning of 11-30 before Meeting that EC's gun was in her car.
He told her that's a very bad place for it."


JC just said that Brian was wrong about that.
She told him on the 26th shooting range day that the gun was in her car.
Is there the text from the 26th or 30th referencing this?

 

[Izzylizzy]

So far JC or Smith haven't mentioned the school counselor being concerned of EC showing signs of suicide idealization and didn';t want him being alone.

Not smart of judge to break,

 

[Izzylizzy]

Smith has about 1/4 of JC's testimony left.
Keast going to talk with judge about evidence to be shown?

Good that JC left with deputies, I was concerned she'd be able to chat with Smith,
Judge broke to give jury a break,

 

[cottonweaver]

So, EC's best and only friend - with whom EC spent so much time at the Crumleys' and on trips - was also 'not well' but neither of the Crumleys seem to have ever noticed that either

The friend was so bad that in October he had to go to a 90 day residential treatment center for OCD. This was a surprise to Jennifer ( A series of messages between Jenn and friend's mom were shown)

Naturally Shannon Smith never asked JC why she told others that the friend had killed himself when in fact he was in hospital

 

[cottonweaver]

Denies being involved in a Yahoo search for the term ' clinical depression'
Never uses Yahoo

Later, she says it's possible that she looked it up for her husband who was sadder after mother died and who was drinking too much

 

[Weki]

Is EC a histrionic personality type? Hurting animals is def a sociopathic tendency. I just wonder if he was a deeply disturbed child and how much of that can be attributed to the crappy parents? The nature vs nurture question def comes to play in this case, I think. Some of the things he said in his diary are kinda out there. It seems like he was making the excuse that his parents weren’t attentive enough as to why he’s gonna sh00t up the school.

JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

So, EC's best and only friend - with whom EC spent so much time at the Crumleys' and on trips - was also 'not well' but neither of the Crumleys seem to have ever noticed that either

The friend was so bad that in October he had to go to a 90 day residential treatment center for OCD. This was a surprise to Jennifer ( A series of messages between Jenn and friend's mom were shown)

I've been looking for info that the boy's mom will be called by Smith as a witness, no luck finding either side';s witness list.
JC will be royally screwed if Keast presents evidence to the jury showing that she lied.

Anyone know if in prior proceedings has JC ever been cross-examined by the prosecutors?
I don't even know if that's legally allowed or not.

I think she's in for a rude awakening from Keast and/or McDonald.

 

[Kingsley]

IMO, Denial-- she could deal with this other less important stuff (horse lessons, horse leg cream) on the side for awhile, instead of thinking about and feeling the nightmare right in front of her.

When something really awful happens, such as death in the family, I also find myself clinging to anything that feels like a normal/mundane interaction. It is indeed probably a form of denial.
It is one of the few things where I feel any kind of understanding for JC.

 

[Izzylizzy]

So, EC's best and only friend - with whom EC spent so much time at the Crumleys' and on trips - was also 'not well' but neither of the Crumleys seem to have ever noticed that either

The friend was so bad that in October he had to go to a 90 day residential treatment center for OCD. This was a surprise to Jennifer ( A series of messages between Jenn and friend's mom were shown)

Naturally Shannon Smith never asked JC why she told others that the friend had killed himself when in fact he was in hospital

JC was hyped up on adderall (speed) and alcohol so anything she said or forgot she said the next day isn;t that surprising to me.

 

[Kingsley]

I just watched the "First Police Interview" video. Too bad the audio was so difficult to understand.

I think LE asked if Ethan had any diagnoses or took any medication, and Jennifer said, anxiety and no medication. Did I hear that correctly?

And when they went in to see their son. He's sitting in the corner kind-of slumped down miserable, and neither one goes to him. They both head straight to the chairs. Jennifer exhibits anger toward him. When they get up to leave and he asks them to stay, they still don't make a move toward him.

It feels like he has to beg them for some love, and they just walk out.

James' "I love you"s sounded more robotic than sincere, but maybe it's the audio? IMO/MOO.

And EC's holding on to the bar for support stands out to me as well. He didn't get it from his parents.
It is a really odd interview.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Denies being involved in a Yahoo search for the term ' clinical depression'
Never uses Yahoo

Later, she says it's possible that she looked it up for her husband who was sadder after mother died and who was drinking too much

iirc: The look-up was in the early morning hours of 11-30.
When I saw that I remember saying to myself something like," Oh, she's finally scared her kid is messed up".
This would have been between her getting the ammo voice mail from school on 11-29 and before 11-30 morning meeting.

By her blaming it on James being depressed she doesn't admit she thought EC was depressed .

 

[RickshawFan]

No health coverage no dental care for Ethan?

Did someone say this in court? Or is someone just assuming?

It was in testimony during the hearing a year or so ago. A boss testified JC didn't buy health coverage for Ethan, although she was entitled to. I seem to recall about the dental care (I don't believe I could make that up!), likely from the same hearing, since I haven't followed much else. There was ALOT of evidence in that hearing. The links are ^^^^.

 

[RickshawFan]

If JC takes the stand maybe we'll find out if she had medical insurance on her horses?(scream)

Sadly the prosecution didn't ask her that...IIRC:

Kira Pennock testified that JC paid $800.00 a month to board both horses,then there's the vet bills and the 2 horse's supplements, which Kira said are expensive.
The 400.00 a month for each horse probably does not include grain and hay.
IIRC: The horse lessons with Kira were 35.00 per?
Then there's all the supplies and maintenance costs.

I maybe need to look back at the hearing last year. The trainer might even have been able to estimate the vet fees. Evidently, those horses had medical problems, too, but I don't know anything about horses, so I can't evaluate!

 

[Weki]

Ok I’m all caught up. We’re on break now it looks like. Are we going to get to cross today???? Ugh!

 

[Izzylizzy]

I maybe need to look back at the hearing last year. The trainer might even have been able to estimate the vet fees. Evidently, those horses had medical problems, too, but I don't know anything about horses, so I can't evaluate!

What we do know gives an average cost estimate of over 1,000 a month for her horses without any surprise vet bills.