GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[wyome]

iirc: The look-up was in the early morning hours of 11-30.
When I saw that I remember saying to myself something like," Oh, she's finally scared her kid is messed up".
This would have been between her getting the ammo voice mail from school on 11-29 and before 11-30 morning meeting.

By her blaming it on James being depressed she doesn't admit she thought EC was depressed .

I don't get her saying it was about James. It would have served her better to admit she was looking it up because concern for EC was growing.

 

[cottonweaver]

Edited to add again:
Now we’re at the hallucination texts from EC. JC says it doesn’t stick out to her until discovery for this case. Says she probably didn’t see the texts at the time. She says it wasn’t anything serious - just EC messing around. He’s been convinced house is haunted since they bought it in 2017. Him and his friend would play Ouji board in the basement. And would take videos to convince mom house was haunted/had ghosts. Parents also messed around with EC to make it seem like there were ghosts in the house.

Would you buy a Ouija Board or let your 10 year old son play with a Ouija board in the basement?

I also did that with friends at that age but the difference was that we would never have told our parents. Parents would've thought it was too macabre for young minds and best not to encourage it.

Is EC a histrionic personality type? Hurting animals is def a sociopathic tendency. I just wonder if he was a deeply disturbed child and how much of that can be attributed to the crappy parents? The nature vs nurture question def comes to play in this case, I think. Some of the things he said in his diary are kinda out there. It seems like he was making the excuse that his parents weren’t attentive enough as to why he’s gonna sh00t up the school.

JMO

IDK what was wrong with EC but definitely something serious. ( The dark, detailed stuff in his journal about rape and suffering. The attraction to sadism, animal cruelty. The images he downloaded. Idolisation of incel type school shooters. Actively wanting to be incarcerated)
IDK if Jennifer would have noticed early obsessional thinking in her son as long as he wasn't acting-out and hard to handle. I think she was very self-absorbed.

In the final FB post photos which were shown, EC looked disconnected, vacant. A kind of brooding figure. Where are the witnesses? Her friends and family who can attest to EC being perfectly fine outwardly? Is Shannon calling anybody from JC's circle?

It's frustrating that she & husband aren't being tried together. Maybe the jury will have noticed that she's throwing husband under the bus?

 

[RickshawFan]

On the one hand, it is good that she addressed this issue. But on the other hand, as far as I know, there are two possible ways they could have enrolled EC in a health plan if he lost coverage due to a qualifying event. One is to check with her HR department to see if this qualified as a "qualifying event" and then immediately adding EC to her company's health plan. The other is to pay for COBRA health coverage for November and December and then start EC on the health plan coverage with JC's company. COBRA is very expensive though, so maybe they decided just to add EC on to her coverage during Open Enrollment in fall 2021 and his coverage would begin in January of 2022.

In any event, her testimony does provide some context for EC's lack of coverage, and it may have been only for the final two months of 2021 after James C lost his job and thus the loss of EC's coverage.

I wonder what the evidence is that Ethan was actually on James' policy?

 

[Izzylizzy]

I don't get her saying it was about James. It would have served her better to admit she was looking it up because concern for EC was growing.

But that would lead into the next morning's meeting and NOT having told the school that she's looking into her son possibly being depressed.
That would be loaded evidence for the prosecution that if you think or believe your son was depressed then why didn't you tell the school you just gave him as a gift a gun and the gun he just drew is an image of his?
She's gonna get caught in lies along the line.

 

[KMouse]

Would you buy a Ouija Board or let your 10 year old son play with a Ouija board in the basement?

I also did that with friends at that age but the difference was that we would never have told our parents. Parents would've thought it was too macabre for young minds and best not to encourage it.


IDK what was wrong with EC but definitely something serious. ( The dark, detailed stuff in his journal about rape and suffering. The attraction to sadism, animal cruelty. The images he downloaded. Idolisation of incel type school shooters)
IDK if Jennifer would have noticed obsessional thinking in her son as long as he wasn't acting-out and hard to handle. I think she was very self-absorbed.

It's frustrating that she & husband aren't being tried together. Maybe the jury will have noticed that she's throwing husband under the bus?

I wouldn't buy a Ouija board for my teenager however me and my friends had one when we were kids. I couldn't tell you where it came from. We did a lot of things our parents weren't aware of because those days were different. These days the kids spend more time isolated in their rooms talking to people we do not know via means that we do not routinely check.

 

[RickshawFan]

And EC's holding on to the bar for support stands out to me as well. He didn't get it from his parents.
It is a really odd interview.

He's handcuffed to the bar.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I posted this yesterday during the trial.

• YYesterday at 1:23 PM

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• #352

77 pages of JC messages and a firefighter.
Message on 11-30 before going to school meeting JC told him she's "afraid he'll do something stupid".

 

[wyome]

Would you buy a Ouija Board or let your 10 year old son play with a Ouija board in the basement?

I also did that with friends at that age but the difference was that we would never have told our parents. Parents would've thought it was too macabre for young minds and best not to encourage it.


IDK what was wrong with EC but definitely something serious. ( The dark, detailed stuff in his journal about rape and suffering. The attraction to sadism, animal cruelty. The images he downloaded. Idolisation of incel type school shooters. Actively wanting to be incarcerated)
IDK if Jennifer would have noticed early obsessional thinking in her son as long as he wasn't acting-out and hard to handle. I think she was very self-absorbed.

It's frustrating that she & husband aren't being tried together. Maybe the jury will have noticed that she's throwing husband under the bus?

I didn't have a Quija board, but in 70s, a ton of kids had one, everyone played with it at some point. And all the parents knew about it, they were probably the ones that gifted it lol. The Exorcist probably helped it to be a popular board game.

I can't see any parents being okay with it now, though. Some things you just shouldn't mess with. The 70s were a weird time.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I wouldn't buy a Ouija board for my teenager however me and my friends had one when we were kids. I couldn't tell you where it came from. We did a lot of things our parents weren't aware of because those days were different. These days the kids spend more time isolated in their rooms talking to people we do not know via means that we do not routinely check.

We had one to but never got into telling parents how scared we got using it and eventually stopped playing with it.
I told my daughter when she was a teenager "hell no" when she wanted one.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I didn't have a Quija board, but in 70s, a ton of kids had one, everyone played with it at some point. And all the parents knew about it, they were probably the ones that gifted it lol. The Exorcist probably helped it to be a popular board game.

I can't see any parents being okay with it now, though. Some things you just shouldn't mess with. The 70s were a weird time.

"Some things you just shouldn't mess with."

No truer words spoken.

 

[Weki]

Jennifer Crumbley testifying does a lot to humanize her, imo, regardless of what a bad parent she may have been. I think it will be difficult for the state to hang her on cross without it coming across like they are indicting her for being a bad parent. Her testimony creates reasonable doubt as to EC’s claims of being neglected. And rightly or wrongly, when it comes to the word of a parent v a child, the parent will be given more credence. And in some cases that is appropriate because children are imaginative and can embellish. I just think any parents on that jury will have a hard time convicting this woman.

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

I didn't have a Quija board, but in 70s, a ton of kids had one, everyone played with it at some point. And all the parents knew about it, they were probably the ones that gifted it lol. The Exorcist probably helped it to be a popular board game.

I can't see any parents being okay with it now, though. Some things you just shouldn't mess with. The 70s were a weird time.

Yes I'm of the same generation. We made ours in the art room at school and then took it home.
I didn't see the movie til I was older but even today I wouldn't let a 10 year old watch something like that - too impressionable at that age. Only just got used to idea that Santa doesn't exist.

 

[Kingsley]

Re J's mom. Ah! I hadn't realised she has passed.
BTW, in FB messages, Jennifer also says to Bryan that they need people who will stick up for them as parents. ( Their parenting skills but implies that nobody is doing that. Not clear if Jennifer wanted people to make supportive statements in public, to media)

BTW State still didn't add any detail as to why Jennifer lied about the Ethan friend who moved away. OFC it mustn't be material to their case or they're protecting his ID but I was just curious as to why she would say the boy had killed himself when he didn't.

It's no wonder to me that people's (especially toyboy) opinions changed as lies were exposed and more information about the Crumbley's came out. Sometimes, probably usually, you only see some sides of people and who they are is not who they originally appeared to be. JMO.

 

[cottonweaver]

@Weki I think State needs to go after her credibility. Impeach her

 

[Weki]

@Weki I think State needs to go after her credibility. Impeach her

Yes you’re right. I hope they have impeachment material. It’s her word against EC and he’s not testifying.

 

[realanastasia]

Ok I’m all caught up. We’re on break now it looks like. Are we going to get to cross today???? Ugh!

If the defense was even REMOTELY more articulate ("Ummmm..." and "errrr...." and "I mean...") and/or wasted less time acting like she's her client's therapist and/or wasn't so whiny ("All I can hear is 'object', 'object'") and prone to interrupting, I think we would have a shot at getting to cross today but I am doubtful about it now.

 

[Weki]

Defense counsel accuses McDonald of saying “object” “object” at states table and asks they send notes to each other because it’s distracting her. McDonald says she’s not saying “object.”

 

[Kingsley]

If JC takes the stand maybe we'll find out if she had medical insurance on her horses?(scream)

Sadly the prosecution didn't ask her that...IIRC:

Kira Pennock testified that JC paid $800.00 a month to board both horses,then there's the vet bills and the 2 horse's supplements, which Kira said are expensive.
The 400.00 a month for each horse probably does not include grain and hay.
IIRC: The horse lessons with Kira were 35.00 per?
Then there's all the supplies and maintenance costs.

FWIW: Board usually includes feed and hay. Self care is sometimes offered at barns and that does not include feed and hay, but I've never heard of self-care field board to cost $400 ph/m

 

[realanastasia]

Defense counsel accuses McDonald of saying “object” “object” at states table and asks they send notes to each other because it’s distracting her. McDonald says she’s not saying “object.”

And the judge seemed to say, "Well, she can hear you saying SOMETHING," as though it's not okay for the prosecution to have any conversations at their table!

 

[cottonweaver]

Predictions

Will she be able to cry on cue when she's up there?