GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[KMouse]

I'll be the outlier and say that Smith's closing was good. I could related to it as a parent of teenagers. I like to think I'm on the ball as a parent however I do not check phones every day. I know most of my kids friends. Not all. Is JC a great parent? I don't think so. Is she culpable for what her kid did? I don't think so.

 

[wyome]

Please don't read every post on here as truthful. Go online and watch the testimony in WHOLE by yourself.

 

[cottonweaver]

Hard to find WS approved commentary on the closings but here's one from yesterday on the " jennifer is a victim' claim from JC

 

[wyome]

<modsnip - quoted post was removed>
The defense has put forth a great job in this case imo.

 

[cottonweaver]

CBS Detroit
Can't find the full clip with all the commentators

https://twitter.com/x/status/1753537551749538004

 

[KMouse]

The defense has put forth a great job in this case imo.

If you can get through the hate for the lawyer and the disparaging remarks about her and her client's lifestyle choices and appearances. It comes down to whether the parents are culpable for what their son did. Not whether JC did things that were immoral or whether her lawyer grates on anyone's nerves. Jurors have to look at the law and the evidence. They do not have to personally like people.

 

[Sundog]

Keast demonstrates she wasn't asleep. a text from 11.14pm, ' Laying low'
11.16pm JC to SS : ' I think we' might've been found, please check ' ( She's asking Shannon to check)
11.16pm Shannon text replies : Oh! Sh...!

Officers, hundreds of them were on scene before 11pm

She claims she didn't write these texts ( Husband under bus again)

Keast confirms that as of yesterday, JC didn't know these texts were going to come in to trial . She agrees

Why wouldn't JC know that these texts were going to come in to trial? Surely her attorney would have all the evidence and shared it with her client?

 

[wyome]

I'll be the outlier and say that Smith's closing was good. I could related to it as a parent of teenagers. I like to think I'm on the ball as a parent however I do not check phones every day. I know most of my kids friends. Not all. Is JC a great parent? I don't think so. Is she culpable for what her kid did? I don't think so.

Smith did a great job imo. Teenagers are complex. I think it helps for them to be in extra curriculars and communicate with parents during morning and dinner. If that doesn't happen, there can be a problem. Connect with your kids in the morning AND before they sleep at night.

 

[Sundog]

also

Yesterday, Smith was asked whether she'd have more witnesses and she said it all depended on child care.
Today Smith added that the 2 witnesses who she'd considered calling were J's parents
So.... the two grandparents, are both working teachers who might have had child care issues today? Huh?

I wonder if JC's parents provide child care for one of their other children, either after school or before school or other . . . Maybe at the same school where they are working?

Many people who are in good heath work into their 70s these days, so that doesn't surprise me. Could be for the benefits provided, could be they waited until 70 to get higher social security benefits. Could be they just enjoyed their work.

 

[wyome]

Why wouldn't JC know that these texts were going to come in to trial? Surely her attorney would have all the evidence and shared it with her client?

judge ordered it could be admissible because of prosecution's objection

 

[dyannaON]

I wonder how the jurors feel about all the silliness SS portrayed during closing.
Wish we could see reactions.
She should have been more serious. I think it would be taken better. But who knows. Jmo.
Wonder what will happen. I’m so mixed up with what I think.
Gahhh.

 

[Izzylizzy]

OMG!
Beyond pathetic.

"In closing arguments, defence attorney Shannon Smith detailed a series of snapshots into her own personal life as a “messy” working mother-of-four in an effort to relate to her client and suggest that she easily could have ended up in “Mrs Crumbley’s shoes”.


“I say ‘sorry’ a lot,” Ms Smith said, and referred to a TikTok video that apparently shows the attorney apologising throughout the trial.

The attorney told the court that she messes up a lot because “I’m human — and so is Mrs Crumbley”.

The defendant is “not a perfect person or a perfect parent,” she said, and neither is she.

Ms Smith said that as a working mother, she sometimes doesn’t have time to take a “true shower” but has to “just grab a handful of wipes and scrub off the best I can”.

“I realised I am Jennifer Crumbley,” Ms Smith said, outlining similarities between the two women'.

“I realised I am Jennifer Crumbley,” Ms Smith said, outlining similarities between the two women'.



I'm waiting for the meme with Smith standing up front surrounded by women holding signs referencing JC's nasty life habits and all yelling
"I Am Jennifer Crumbley". rotfl

 

[Sundog]

Her poor son.

I am shocked by this closing. She is doing her client no favors. Nor her own family.

Jmo

Perhaps will be grounds for appeal for a new trial, on grounds of ineffective counsel.

 

[cottonweaver]

Why wouldn't JC know that these texts were going to come in to trial? Surely her attorney would have all the evidence and shared it with her client?

Shannon Smith ' opened the door '
IMO she definitely did not do that on purpose.
State raised that and judge had to agree having read the case law overnight
( It was covered at the very end of Day 6 and the very start of Day 7 so it's easy to find)

-----

Anyway, I just watched Dr G Explains review some of JC's performance on direct and cross. It's really good. He picked up lots of things we picked up but also tons we didn't and plenty that the Pros didn't. So many ' inconsistencies' ( mainly statement analysis type review)

 

[stripehaven2]

Do you have a teen?
I expect most moms that come across this case hate her. It makes them feel better about themselves.

I have an adult, i.e., a former teen.

Who said I hate her? I do believe she made a grievous error in ignoring the emergency indicated by that violent drawing that was LITERALLY a cry for help.

 

[Sundog]

The school can not force you to take your child home. You can walk out refusing. The school can call child services, but they can not force you to remove your child.

But the school sent Ethan back to his classes. They didn't keep him in a place where other students would be safe, they just sent him back to his classes. No attempt to keep him at the counselor's office or anywhere else until the end of the school day when they could have had an emergency meeting to figure out what to the next school day.

 

[stripehaven2]

Wow!
That claim is highly offensive.
I don't need JC to make me feel better or worse about myself having been a mom of a teen daughter.
I, like many mom's and dad's knew when something was off kilter with their kid and DID SOMETHING about it.
Not that that will always work with some kids but at least they can tell themselves that they tried.
JC shares tragic traits with other school shooter's parents.
Giving an unstable kid who is an open book had they taken the time to investigate them and give that kid a firearm or help them get one.
Either way guilty or not guilty hopefully this case opens the eyes of parents whose kids have guns.

Exactly. The defense keeps saying this wasn’t foreseeable. Yet we know school shootings happen. We know the shooters are frequently “loners” with no or few friends. And Ethan literally drew a picture with a caption that should have sent everyone into emergency mode.

 

[cottonweaver]

Do you have a teen?
I expect most moms that come across this case hate her. It makes them feel better about themselves.

Hate is a very strong word for somebody one's never met. JC chose to take the stand, it's always risky. Her attorney will have advised her on that.
If she doesn't resonate with some jurors or viewers, I doubt that you can just assume whatever you want to project onto them.

Some jurors may have teens, some jurors might not be parents, some might have grandchildren who've experienced difficulties. Because of the location some might have kids who safely and routinely use guns in hunting. They still might hold unexpected views regardless.

Did we hear of the age range of the jurors from the selection phase?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Shannon Smith ' opened the door '
IMO she definitely did not do that on purpose.
State raised that and judge had to agree having read the case law overnight
( It was covered at the very end of Day 6 and the very start of Day 7 so it's easy to find)

-----

Anyway, I just watched Dr G Explains review some of JC's performance on direct and cross. It's really good. He picked up lots of things we picked up but also tons we didn't and plenty that the Pros didn't. So many ' inconsistencies' ( mainly statement analysis type review)

I found him quite fascinating and enjoyed his delivery.
He's bookmarked and I'll track his latest down his latest,
Thanks!

 

[Izzylizzy]

Exactly. The defense keeps saying this wasn’t foreseeable. Yet we know school shootings happen. We know the shooters are frequently “loners” with no or few friends. And Ethan literally drew a picture with a caption that should have sent everyone into emergency mode.

I may have missed it being addressed during the livestreaming ?

JC had said and had texted that she was afraid EC "would do something stupid"
"would do something dumb"

To himself or others?

She freaked out thinking it was a few minutes past the time when he was supposed to be home from school..in a text to James, who told her the time and that EC wasn't late.

That indicates to me that deep down JC knew she was dealing with a loose cannon.