GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[texaslb218]

Boom. Defense makes an excellent point. If your kid has a fever you’re called and told to pick your kid up pronto and they can’t be back for 24 hours. So the idea that the school can’t force you to take your kid home is false! So if the school wasn’t alarmed enough to force her to take him home why should she have been? I’ve always said this protects the parents from criminal culpability. The idea that the school didn’t know he had a gun doesn’t fly. The school administrator testified that guns are very common in this community.

The school can not force you to take your child home. You can walk out refusing. The school can call child services, but they can not force you to remove your child.

 

[Weki]

The school can not force you to take your child home. You can walk out refusing. The school can call child services, but they can not force you to remove your child.

I mean…..if the school tells parents either take your child home or we will call child protective services/the police I would say you’re being forced. But maybe some parents wouldn’t see that as being forced. JMO

 

[Boodles]

Laptops & jet skis aren’t analogous to giving your kid a 9mm Sig Sauer.

 

[Nina Michigan]

yes, a hug could have made a difference for that boy

JMO

 

[Weki]

A weak rebuttal so far! I don’t like that McDonald says “I”, “I have to prove” etc. It feels like a political speech. Say “we” or “the state” what about Keast? He’s been working side by side with her.

ETA : Now she’s talking about the pain of the parents and the children killed. The bravery of LE. This is an emotional plea - not a prosecutor proving her case. She’s making an emotional plea to punish JC for what her son did. She’s looking in the gallery while calling out each child that was killed. She uses JC’a words - ‘she hasn’t lost anything her son is still alive.’

JMO

 

[cottonweaver]

Numerous times JC told or texted people that she was
"afraid he"ll do something stupid"
"afraid he'll do something dumb"

Why & what?

I still haven't watched her entire closing. I had to do other stuff.... but yes I agree

She thought at the very minimum he might harm himself but I also do wonder how little we all know.
They were a tight family. What else might EC have verbalised to his parents when they had one of the fights and he lost his temper?

ETA Just realised court is still in session and she's back with rebuttal. I missed all of Shannon Smith's too.

Jeez the judge still isn't able to just say ' Overruled' without waffling

 

[ilovewings]

I think her rebuttal is good IMO

 

[Weki]

I’ve wobbled since my first impressions about the merits of this case. I think the state did a good job of painting a picture of a bad mom. But I’m back to my initial perspective - the state has no case. The correct verdict is not guilty! McDonald has proven to be a disappointment. Based on her indignation at the press conferences I had the impression that she HAD THEM! She doesn’t and never did and I’m starting to wonder if this wasn’t a cynical move on her part to charge these parents and make headlines. Smith has come out smelling like a rose at the conclusion of this saga. Wow. JMO

 

[wyome]

Yes, JC's lost everything. As gross as this is to hear, she DID lose everything.
Her son, her husband, her job, her life, her horses, everything. LE went after her and James like a pitbull when they asked for lawyers and clammed up.

Which is kind of scary, because any good lawyer will tell you to NOT talk to police before council. So they did the RIGHT thing according to US laws.

 

[sleepingmonkey]

that was wild!

 

[wyome]

It's scary as hell to think that LE, in that first interview at the station where they indicate they'd like an attorney present, that s***t hit the fan. We are not a police state.

ETA: They were going after the parents because of that

 

[cottonweaver]

It's scary as hell to think that LE, in that first interview at the station where they indicate they'd like an attorney present, that s***t hit the fan. We are not a police state.

ETA: They were going after the parents because of that

what do you mean?
I have seen that first police interview.

What was scary about LE cutting the interview short because the Crumbleys wanted their lawyer as per their rights?
You think the state decided to prosecute them or just LE wanted to ' go after ' them and influenced the SA office because the Crumbleys wanted a lawyer?

 

[dazed_ncurious]

The school can not force you to take your child home. You can walk out refusing. The school can call child services, but they can not force you to remove your child.

Yup. When my kids went to school a lot of children would hang out in a room behind the nurses office, because their parents wouldn't or couldn't come get them. Their hands were tied if parents refused.

 

[wyome]

what do you mean?
I have seen that first police interview.

What was scary about LE cutting the interview short because the Crumbleys wanted their lawyer as per their rights?

They went after them immediately after they asked or a lawyer.
Their raid had them handcuffed and retained.
They went after them full force in the media even after they retained a lawyer.

They had an agenda to blame someone. They were out to arrest the
Crumbleys to make themselves look like they were doing something.

 

[stripehaven2]

Laptops & jet skis aren’t analogous to giving your kid a 9mm Sig Sauer.

Yeah, to me the Crumbleys’ situation is more like, you know your kid is drunk but you don’t take away the car keys, and they drive and kill someone. Smith can yak all day long but I’ll never find it understandable that the parents (and school) looked at that picture of killing, with “the thoughts won’t stop. Please help me” and just went Meh.

I don’t care if she screwed around. I don’t care if she lives in her horse barn. I just find it reprehensible that she shrugged off that obvious cry for help, tell the kid she was mad at him, and sashay away.

 

[ilovewings]

I’ve wobbled since my first impressions about the merits of this case. I think the state did a good job of painting a picture of a bad mom. But I’m back to my initial perspective - the state has no case. The correct verdict is not guilty! McDonald has proven to be a disappointment. Based on her indignation at the press conferences I had the impression that she HAD THEM! She doesn’t and never did and I’m starting to wonder if this wasn’t a cynical move on her part to charge these parents and make headlines. Smith has come out smelling like a rose at the conclusion of this saga. Wow. JMO

I agree that McDonald is a disappointment. I smell a not guilty verdict.

 

[cottonweaver]

LawyerYouKnow has done a couple of commentary videos on aspects of the trial. No idea if they're any good but even though he's mainly civil litigation, he does know his negligence cases. Off to watch one of them

fwiw my guess:
No chance of a NG verdict
A hung - aka a mistrial - at minimum . ( No view if that leads to a retrial, depends on what happens with James's trial)

 

[Izzylizzy]

If I was a juror, I wouldn't give any weight to their late afternoon at the studio. Seriously. Their lawyer failed them. Sorry, I know that's not popular. They just had their kid shoot up a school, their home ransacked, hand-cuffed and detained, and had death threats on SM. Regardless of how they both are useless parents, that level of stress is mind-boggling. And those messages from the lawyer to THEM should have directly told them what to do.

I get it that they didn't want to return to their residence after LE left and they went to a motel/hotel(?)
They could have contacted LE when the supposed threats came into JC's social media ( were they entered as evidence, I haven't seen any?) and asked for police protection at their home.
If they couldn't get protection at their home all they had to do is let LE know where they were staying.
If they didn't do what they did both would not be held on 500,000 bail each for over 2 yrs due to be considered a flight risk.
JC still wanted to be in control and it backfired big time.

 

[Izzylizzy]

LawyerYouKnow has done a couple of commentary videos on aspects of the trial. No idea if they're any good but even though he's mainly civil litigation, he does know his negligence cases. Off to watch one of them

fwiw my guess:
No chance of a NG verdict
A hung - aka a mistrial - at minimum . ( No view if that leads to a retrial, depends on what happens with James's trial)

All the jury has to do is come back with one of the 4 charges with a guilty verdict.
I have a feeling the jury may split the baby.

 

[wyome]

what do you mean?
I have seen that first police interview.

What was scary about LE cutting the interview short because the Crumbleys wanted their lawyer as per their rights?
You think the state decided to prosecute them or just LE wanted to ' go after ' them and influenced the SA office because the Crumbleys wanted a lawyer?

Yes. They asked for a lawyer and the rest was set in motion imo