GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[DFWNF]

Shannon Smith played out in court this text as proof that Jennifer was a concerned,caring mom to EC.

I see it as a frantic mom who is real afraid of what her kid might be doing away from home.
Yes?


"Shannon Smith, Jennifer Crumbley's attorney, said some text messages between Jennifer and her husband, James, show Jennifer was very concerned about the couple's son. In one string from March 2021, Crumbley was very worried when the shooter wasn't home from school yet, saying she was "freaking out," until her husband pointed out the teen didn't get home until 3:16 p.m.

Recap Day 4: Jennifer Crumbley's attorney refutes claim client didn't answer shooter's texts

Jennnifer Crumbley is being tried on four counts of involuntary manslaughter for the deaths of four students at Oxford High School in November 2021.

www.detroitnews.com

Worried about herself imo.

 

[Boodles]

snipped
As another poster mentioned, the case's number code was 0000
IIRC that 0000 was the factory setting or words to that effect. ( shop)
They didn't input a new code after purchase. ( Maybe for ease. They didn't want to have to remember another 4 digit code?)

Yes the gun safety storage re minors was only legislated after the slaying. ( I can't recall how many other states had already legislated. Maybe 25?)

Regardless of what JC said, I suspect that gun was never secured and he had total access to it. I think the whole song and dance about taking the gun away (her testimony was contradictory if you believe anything she said anyway), keeping it locked, etc., was all fabricated after the fact to offset the fact that “we’re *advertiser censored**ed.”

 

[Izzylizzy]

Did I miss these being mentioned at trial?
A first for me.

At Jen & James hearing for a bond reduction one of the things Marc Keast tells the judge that EC searched mass shootings and guns so many times on his phone that he was receiving spam ads for mental health help.
Oh, and EC made Molotov Cocktails at home.

Fox Live Now posted the hearing on youtube so I can't post it here.

 

[DFWNF]

I think it will be difficult for a jury (some of whom are likely parents themselves) to say that parents should be held accountable for the criminal deeds of their children. The state will prove these are terrible parents, no doubt. But I’m sure some of the jurors themselves are either terrible parents or have terrible parents in their family/friend circle. People give terrible parents a lot of latitude. This is an unprecedented case. I’ll be listening very carefully to the jury instructions as well to see if legally they can convict them. JMO

Wish I was a juror.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Worried about herself imo.

I think she knew he was a lose cannon so yes, anything he pulled off outside the home would definitely interrupt her daily plans and may cost her money to boot.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Wish I was a juror.

Ditto.
Plus a juror on 2 other publicized trials in recent years.

 

[Izzylizzy]

What on earth? Legitimate medical treatments? ! That is whacked

One of the most perverted,reprehensible, evil man on earth even distanced himself from Smith.

"Her comments spread through the internet and beyond, igniting harsh criticism.

In the aftermath of his lawyer’s comments, Nassar sought to distance himself from them."

 

[ChatteringBirds]

UGH, that this defendant with this lawyer might actually walk free next week.

 

[Sundog]

Wish I was a juror.

Me, too.

 

[Sundog]

In a case like this, does the jury decide the sentence if they come back with a guilty verdict or does the judge decide the sentence? And what are the sentencing guidelines for each of the charges? I remember that it is up to 15 years for manslaughter, but not sure of the other charges and their possible sentences.

If she is found guilty, perhaps the judge will be satisfied with the time already served behind bars (2 years, IIRC) and with probation and community service. I hope that is the case if JC is found guilty of any of the charges.

 

[DFWNF]

If she was concerned she would have let the school know about his brand new gun and the mental visions he claims to have been experiencing and all of his other concerning lifestyle habits and actions that she was well aware of.
No one who JC shared the drawing with or telling Kari she's bringing EC to the barn on the 30th had never been told anything by JC that was even close to what EC's behavior/problems were at home.

Could she have blocked his texts sometimes? Or just ignored him. Would not surprise me. If she unblocked would she then see texts? I don't have a phone, so I genuinely do not know. Thanks

 

[cottonweaver]

Did I miss these being mentioned at trial?
A first for me.

At Jen & James hearing for a bond reduction one of the things Marc Keast tells the judge that EC searched mass shootings and guns so many times on his phone that he was receiving spam ads for mental health help.
Oh, and EC made Molotov Cocktails at home.

Fox Live Now posted the hearing on youtube so I can't post it here.

You sure Fox is not allowed on WS? ETA - please see Bette's post. Local FoxNews affiliates are ok

Re spam ads for MH. Did you see the posts I did on Dr King's evidence? He mentions that EC was also constantly searching terms such as ' Do I have OCD?' ' Do I have clinical depression?' ( couple of WS pages ago) That would surely make the algorithm send you MH support sites

Also, this link has more details about other similar searches
' Searches about being a psychopath, sociopath, wanting to kill, narcissism, insanity, obsessive compulsive disorder, and paranoia were among those gleaned from Crumbley’s cell phone during the investigation by Wagrowski, who works for the Oakland County Sheriff’s Office.'

and ' suck it up ' & LOL as JC was fond of replying
“I ask my dad to take me to a doctor, but he just gave me some pills and told me to suck it up…my mom laughed when I told her.”

Yet in October, evidence shows, a text Crumbley sent about how to locate a handgun he wanted as listed on Amazon elicited an “OK” from his mother.

Ethan Crumbley’s text exchanges with mother, asking for help, and searches about mental illness discussed in court

On Friday morning, the court heard more about the disturbing text messages about hallucinations, internet searches on mental illness and pleas for help from the parents that went unanswered.

www.theoaklandpress.com

His wife's Xanax or her Adderall pills?

 

[Chelly]

UGH, that this defendant with this lawyer might actually walk free next week.

Entirely possible. Parents do not want to spend jail time for crimes their children commit and that concern is not lost on the jury. A precedent could be set with this verdict.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

You sure Fox is not allowed on WS?

FOX News National is no longer an approved source

Since we have learned of the out and out lies Fox News (the cable Fox News featuring Hannity and others) told after the 2020 presidential elections I have made the decision to not allow Fox News as a source on Websleuths. This DOES NOT include local Fox News affiliates. They are completely...

www.websleuths.com

 

[cottonweaver]

FOX News National is no longer an approved source

Since we have learned of the out and out lies Fox News (the cable Fox News featuring Hannity and others) told after the 2020 presidential elections I have made the decision to not allow Fox News as a source on Websleuths. This DOES NOT include local Fox News affiliates. They are completely...

www.websleuths.com

thanks. I had seen Fox 2 Detroit trial links, so that's still okay.

 

[DFWNF]

UGH, that this defendant with this lawyer might actually walk free next week.

Oh no, let's not jinx it

 

[DFWNF]

Questions Smith asked potential jurors during jury selection.
They're described as "jurors" not "potential jurors".
Though I'd be very surprised if Smith chose them.


"Smith asked these questions of the jurors:"

• Do you think kids should never be around a gun, or would you allow it in some circumstances?
• Is it OK to leave a teenager or a 10-year-old home alone?
• Should parents go through their teenager’s text messages, room, emails?
• Do you think parents should know everything their children do, and, if their kids mess up, should the parent be held responsible?
• Do you think your children would be able to hide something from you?

That last question elicited an emotional and candid response from a male juror, who talked about how he and his wife didn’t know their son was researching how to commit suicide on the internet after the drowning death of his friend. Someone at school noticed the boy’s behavior was changing and contacted the parents, who eventually found out their son was depressed and contemplating suicide.

Another juror — a mother with two children — talked about how her daughter was using social media “as a personal diary to the world” until her mother finally looked at her account and discovered the activity. “I just didn’t believe she could be that careless,” the juror said, adding she now checks her daughter’s social media every day. “They know how to get around you.”

Jennifer Crumbley's jury includes several gun owners, mostly women

Ten women and seven men will hear the case, then five alternates will be dismissed when deliberations begin.

www.freep.com

Ugh at the questions. Incl the responsibility one.

 

[DFWNF]

I'm not so sure about that. Running away seems like the obvious solution to the terrible situation at home. He knew enough to know he needed help and wasn't getting it. IMO his parents had him thinking he wasn't worthy of it, and would never get it, so he didn't have the emotional wherewithal to leave. But running away is one of the few things a child can do to get away from a toxic home.

Jmo with worries about his cat etc , I would not have run either. And how much money did he have, and/or close friends or family who would take him in?

 

[Boodles]

I'm not so sure about that. Running away seems like the obvious solution to the terrible situation at home. He knew enough to know he needed help and wasn't getting it. IMO his parents had him thinking he wasn't worthy of it, and would never get it, so he didn't have the emotional wherewithal to leave. But running away is one of the few things a child can do to get away from a toxic home.

Run away and go where? He had no friends. He had been neglected and marginalized the majority of his life. His mental health issues greatly affected his mind - he was so disturbed and desperate per the Miller hearing psychologist. This wasn’t a young man who was rational or resourceful to make constructive decisions. This case is just awful and heartbreaking in so many ways. IMO

 

[DFWNF]

I have to call BS on the Dean. To make it seem like his drawings were commonplace and no cause for alarm feels a bit disingenuous. I believe that students draw pictures of guns. BUT I don’t know how a reasonable person could say it’s not alarming when a student draws a picture of a gun with bullets and the words “blood everywhere” and “my life is useless” and “the thoughts won’t stop help me”. That’s

Testimony: Jennifer Crumbley blamed Oxford school officials for shooting in texts

Crumbley, now on trial for four counts of involuntary manslaughter, accused school officials of being nonchalant and allowing shooter to return to class.

eu.detroitnews.com

Jennifer Crumbley claims Oxford school 'failed my son and 4 families' in message to lover

Messages to ex-lover after Ethan Crumbley killed four show mother saying "I failed as a parent" and her son "is 'going to have to suffer."

eu.freep.com

Who didn't she blame?