GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[RickshawFan]

One of the most perverted,reprehensible, evil man on earth even distanced himself from Smith.

"Her comments spread through the internet and beyond, igniting harsh criticism.

In the aftermath of his lawyer’s comments, Nassar sought to distance himself from them."

One of my favorite segments of the Nassar trial was how the judge addressed him and her and then flicked his letter across her bench. That was a thing of beauty.

 

[Elisaa444]

Maybe it’s just me but the state phoned it in. They didn’t object to Smith’s inappropriate arguments/comments during testimony and they didn’t object to her closing argument where she used her personal life as evidence. McDonald seemed so indignant and outraged in the press/pretrial hearings and acted like a church mouse inside the courtroom. There was no fire to the state’s presentation of evidence.

McDonald in her closing stressed how courageous LE was, how emotional these tough men were, more than JC’s criminal culpability. She wanted to acknowledge the pain and suffering of LE. It seemed like PR for the state. It was a bizarre closing imo. And her saying “I” “I” a lot…. Parents of victims must’ve put a whole lotta pressure to bring the Crumbleys to trial .

BBM

I too recall McDonald being outraged in the press, so when I first tuned into the trial and saw her at the table - I thought to myself - 'I can't wait to see McDonald finally speak in this trial' and boy was I let down. I was so surprised at her closing. I was hoping that Keast would do the rebuttal closing, but no such luck.


Moo/Moo

 

[Izzylizzy]

I’m worried about that too. If I was JC (and so glad I’m not anything like TBH), I would use that for an appeal should she be convicted.

Smith's method to her madness should JC get convicted?
Like being pro-active? lol

 

[KMouse]

JC can check all the boxes.
2019

"They suffered early-childhood trauma and exposure to violence at a young age. They were angry or despondent over a recent event, resulting in feelings of suicidality. They studied other school shootings, notably Columbine, often online, and found inspiration. And they possessed the means to carry out an attack.'

What School Shooters Have in Common (Opinion)

Two researchers wanted to understand data-driven pathways for preventing school shootings. Here's what they found.

www.edweek.org

'Having the means to carry out an attack'​

In order to carry out a school shooting, students need access to firearms and ammunition. According to Petersen and Densley’s data, 80 percent of school shooters obtained their weapons from members of their own family, typically parents and grandparents'

Years of Research Finds That Most School Shooters Have 4 Things in Common

Years of research into school shootings has revealed these four shared traits of shooters. Addressing them could save countless lives.

www.rd.com

That's just it. They have easy access to firearms. Kids that don't may turn their feelings on themselves.

 

[Cool Cats]

Is there a purpose that Smith has 3 big stacks of papers on her table?

Yes.

It is to show an example of how many text messages there were between JC and Ethan Crumbly that were not shown - prosecution cherry picked - and how many messages were between Ethan and his friend that were not shown.

Out of hundreds of messages only a handful were shown, ones to fit the prosecution's narrative.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Could she have blocked his texts sometimes? Or just ignored him. Would not surprise me. If she unblocked would she then see texts? I don't have a phone, so I genuinely do not know. Thanks

Texts: No
Blocked then unblocked the voice messages sent while phone was blocked are available.

 

[Izzylizzy]

In a case like this, does the jury decide the sentence if they come back with a guilty verdict or does the judge decide the sentence? And what are the sentencing guidelines for each of the charges? I remember that it is up to 15 years for manslaughter, but not sure of the other charges and their possible sentences.

If she is found guilty, perhaps the judge will be satisfied with the time already served behind bars (2 years, IIRC) and with probation and community service. I hope that is the case if JC is found guilty of any of the charges.

It's the judge that always hands down the sentence.

I had posted that the judge sentencing her to time served and probation would not surprise me, not that I agree with that.

 

[Cool Cats]

In a case like this, does the jury decide the sentence if they come back with a guilty verdict or does the judge decide the sentence? And what are the sentencing guidelines for each of the charges? I remember that it is up to 15 years for manslaughter, but not sure of the other charges and their possible sentences.

If she is found guilty, perhaps the judge will be satisfied with the time already served behind bars (2 years, IIRC) and with probation and community service. I hope that is the case if JC is found guilty of any of the charges.

Only the judge decides the sentence.

Each of the parents are facing the following four charges:

• Count 1: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 17-year-old Madisyn Baldwin
• Count 2: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 16-year-old Tate Myre
• Count 3: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 14-year-old Hana St. Juliana
• Count 4: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 17-year-old Justin Shilling

In total, Jennifer Crumbley and James Crumbley each face a maximum prison sentence of 60 years and maximum fines of $30,000 if convicted on all four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

I don't know if there are any legal constraints on the judge as far as how low she can go in sentencing. However, she could run the sentences concurrently as opposed to consecutively. Let's say JC is convicted on all 4 charges and gets 7 years for each charge. The judge could then run the 4 sentences consecutively so JC would only get a total of 7 years. She gets credit for the more than 2 years she has served and she might be eligible for parole.

If the judge gave a sentence of a minimum of 3 years and a maximum of 7 years this means JC could not come up for parole until she served the minimum of 3 years. After 3 years she could try for parole.

Oxford shooting: Here’s what charges, potential sentences suspect’s parents are facing

Parents of the teenager accused of opening fire at Oxford High School and killing four students have been arraigned on involuntary manslaughter charges for their alleged role in the mass shooting.

www.clickondetroit.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

Yes.

It is to show an example of how many text messages there were between JC and Ethan Crumbly that were not shown - prosecution cherry picked - and how many messages were between Ethan and his friend that were not shown.

Out of hundreds of messages only a handful were shown, ones to fit the prosecution's narrative.

Thanks.
Anyone know the time frame when JC deleted threads and threads of texts/messages.
Those she sent, received or were saved as drafts?
I'm curious if the mass deletions were shown to be common practice for her or they were deleted after she knew EC carried out the massacre.
tia

 

[Cool Cats]

Thanks.
Anyone know the time frame when JC deleted threads and threads of texts/messages.
Those she sent, received or were saved as drafts?
I'm curious if the mass deletions were shown to be common practice for her or they were deleted after she knew EC carried out the massacre.
tia

JC said mass deletions were normal for her because she wanted to keep people she communicated with at the top of the page so she didn't have to scroll down to find them. So she deleted all the extra texts that she didn't need.

She specifically says she did this on her Facebook Marketing account but did not explain other deletions such as text or messenger.

Thus, her way to dodge the question. I believe she deleted deliberately to hide things from investigators.

2 Cents

 

[Izzylizzy]

Only the judge decides the sentence.

Each of the parents are facing the following four charges:

• Count 1: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 17-year-old Madisyn Baldwin
• Count 2: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 16-year-old Tate Myre
• Count 3: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 14-year-old Hana St. Juliana
• Count 4: Involuntary manslaughter, maximum $7,500 fine and 15 years in prison for the death of 17-year-old Justin Shilling

In total, Jennifer Crumbley and James Crumbley each face a maximum prison sentence of 60 years and maximum fines of $30,000 if convicted on all four counts of involuntary manslaughter.

I don't know if there are any legal constraints on the judge as far as how low she can go in sentencing. However, she could run the sentences concurrently as opposed to consecutively. Let's say JC is convicted on all 4 charges and gets 7 years for each charge. The judge could then run the 4 sentences consecutively so JC would only get a total of 7 years. She gets credit for the more than 2 years she has served and she might be eligible for parole.

If the judge gave a sentence of a minimum of 3 years and a maximum of 7 years this means JC could not come up for parole until she served the minimum of 3 years. After 3 years she could try for parole.

Oxford shooting: Here’s what charges, potential sentences suspect’s parents are facing

Parents of the teenager accused of opening fire at Oxford High School and killing four students have been arraigned on involuntary manslaughter charges for their alleged role in the mass shooting.

www.clickondetroit.com

Thank you.
I don't want to imagine her sentence if JC found guilty.
I saw Matthews as somewhat sympathetic towards JC.

JC said mass deletions were normal for her because she wanted to keep people she communicated with at the top of the page so she didn't have to scroll down to find them. So she deleted all the extra texts that she didn't need.

She specifically says she did this on her Facebook Marketing account but did not explain other deletions such as text or messenger.

Thus, her way to dodge the question. I believe she deleted deliberately to hide things from investigators.

2 Cents

This is where I'm confused,
She deleted threads with son, husband, boyfriend but they were ones she frequently texted with?

 

[DFWNF]

She isn't bright to put it mildly. Many examples.

I would be worried about Schizophrenia if my kid texted me that he saw and heard things moving in the house and heard voices. Hearing voices is a big red flag. Dishes flying out of the cupboards? Big red flag.

I would get my kid evaluated. I think she will be found guilty. She gets over 2 years credit on her prison sentence.

I predict four 15 year sentences to run concurrently.

2 Cents

I would prefer consecutively, but concurrently would be alright imo.

 

[Cool Cats]

Thank you.
I don't want to imagine her sentence if JC found guilty.
I saw Matthews as somewhat sympathetic towards JC.

This is where I'm confused,
She deleted threads with son, husband, boyfriend but they were ones she frequently texted with?

Her testimony didn't even clear this up... Can't make sense of it.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Monday Monday.

'Here's what's next in the Jennifer Crumbley trial following closing arguments'​

'Jurors will have nearly 500 exhibits to go through and a computer to review the evidence if they choose'

Of the 17 jurors, 12 will deliberate and five will be selected as alternates at random. Also, the jury will pick a foreperson.

Here's what's next in the Jennifer Crumbley trial following closing arguments

Monday morning, jury deliberations are scheduled to start in the Jennifer Crumbley trial. Her son killed four of his Oxford High School classmates in November 2021.

www.wxyz.com

 

[Izzylizzy]

This is why Smith told Judge Matthews she could only eat "soup" because of her esophagus.

'The turning point came in 2019, when Smith developed an esophageal stricture, which would take a full year and multiple surgeries to abate. During this period, she visited the hospital 24 times and derived the bulk of her nourishment from an IV.Jun 28, 2022'

Crumbley Lawyer Shannon Smith on Defending the Indefensible​

 

[DFWNF]

This is why Smith told Judge Matthews she could only eat "soup" because of her esophagus.

'The turning point came in 2019, when Smith developed an esophageal stricture, which would take a full year and multiple surgeries to abate. During this period, she visited the hospital 24 times and derived the bulk of her nourishment from an IV.Jun 28, 2022'

Crumbley Lawyer Shannon Smith on Defending the Indefensible​

Oh now I feel bad for her, esophagus issues can be terrible.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Oh now I feel bad for her, esophagus issues can be terrible.

Does feeling bad for Smith negate her unprofessional and offensive behavior in court?
That is if you saw her behavior that way.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Two things I don't get.

Why didn't the prosecutors call the mother of EC's only friend to testify?
If anyone knew the run-down and concerning behavior EC was showing I would think it would have been this woman that JC told.

The other is what did Smith think she was driving home to the jury by whipping off her jacket in the courtroom and cleaning herself with a wipe?

Was something said during the trial about JC not having the time to shower or something?

 

[stripehaven2]

JC said mass deletions were normal for her because she wanted to keep people she communicated with at the top of the page so she didn't have to scroll down to find them. So she deleted all the extra texts that she didn't need.

She specifically says she did this on her Facebook Marketing account but did not explain other deletions such as text or messenger.

Thus, her way to dodge the question. I believe she deleted deliberately to hide things from investigators.

2 Cents

The people you text regularly will already be at the top JENNIFER. What a stupid explanation. I have so many things I’d love to grill her about.

 

[Cool Cats]

Detailed Article

A Handgun for Christmas​

Will James and Jennifer Crumbley be found guilty for their son’s mass shooting?​

https://nymag.com/intelligencer/article/oxford-school-shooting-ethan-crumbley-parents.html

A special antipathy is reserved for Jehn. In town, people speak of her as not maternal, “a ballbuster,” absent at home. On private Facebook pages, Jehn is depicted as “the one pulling the strings, wearing the pants, the mean one,” says Lori Bourgeau, who is on the Oxford Village council.

In the public mind, which extends far beyond Oxford, James is seen as the passive, gentle parent and Jehn as a mother who failed to support her son with love or discipline and who, when things started to go wrong, remained blind to her child’s descent.

(The parents didn't seem to exercise any parental controls for online content. Ethan had 3 Instagram accounts and the parents only viewed one. Most likely Ethan was exposed to violent games and violent online content all his life.)

Ethan began spending hours on a website devoted to killings and school shootings. During the month of November, he went to the website 421 times.

November 27, 2021: Ethan and Jehn at the gun range. Photo: submitted in evidence


Jehn and James would fight in the backyard, yelling so loudly that passersby could hear. Later, in court, a co-worker said Jehn’s phone arguments with James were audible through her closed office door.

James was often home with Ethan, and during the day, Jehn would frequently check in with them, asking about homework, meals, and chores. “I think your dad is sleeping,” Jehn wrote to Ethan at lunchtime on March 6.

March 17, 2021: Jehn with one of her horses. Photo: submitted in evidence


The following Monday in English class, Ethan was looking at bullets on his phone. The teacher, alarmed, notified Pam Fine, the high school’s “restorative-practices coordinator,” and Fine called Ethan to her office for a meeting with herself and Hopkins. He didn’t know Ethan very well: They had met once over Zoom for scheduling and once in a hallway after a teacher said Ethan seemed “sad.”

After the meeting with Ethan, Fine left a message on Jehn’s phone.......

She let her know that she and Hopkins had just had a “really nice” conversation with Ethan, assuring him that “guns are a hobby for a lot of people, and shooting ranges, and that’s perfectly normal,” but that certain hobbies were better pursued at home. “He was great; he was like, ‘Yep, I get it,’ ” Fine said, her voice upbeat. “If you have any questions, you can give me a call. Otherwise, I hope you have a great holiday.”