Seriously, is there no legislation on parental responsibility? Maddening imo
GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5
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I EXPECT DOUGHNUTS
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This article gives alot of detail about that school meeting with the counselor:
School Counselor Saw Warning Signs for 'A Couple of Days,' Said Ethan Crumbley Exhibited 'Suicidal Ideation' Before Mass Shooting: Testimony
A school counselor who interacted with alleged murderer Ethan Crumbley testified Thursday about what led up to a deadly school shooting in Michigan on Nov. 30, 2021.
lawandcrime.com
There is nothing said about the counselor talking alone with the parents. Obviously, he talked alone with Ethan before the parents came to the meeting. The counselor said he did not leave Ethan alone.
Jennifer stopped the meeting abruptly by asking "Are we done?"
The meeting ended “abruptly,” Hopkins said.
“Are we done?” Jennifer Crumbley allegedly asked him.
He said Ethan Crumbley “wanted to return to class.”
Hopkins said a dean told him that there was “no” disciplinary reason as to why Crumbley could not return to class. Hopkins testified that he wrote a pass for Ethan to return to class and told him that he cared about him.
“I care about my students, and I cared about him in that moment particularly because I thought it was a really rough situation to be showing signs of needing — of needing support,” the counselor said. “And it felt like he got the opposite when I tried to get him that help and support.”
Ethan didn’t cry. His parents didn’t try to hug him or touch him. Ethan didn’t respond to the counselor’s statement of support, Hopkins said.
Hopkins said he checked to make sure he was “being marked present” for his additional courses in an attempt to ensure he wasn’t alone.
Hopkins said he was planning to follow up with Ethan Crumbley the next morning.
That plan was cut short ........
RickshawFan
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The thing is, with the level of isolation and neglect Ethan experienced at home (which was obvious in the parent meeting), it’s possible the counselor anticipated it would be better for Ethan to be around people. IMO this is true for a lot of kids. It sounds like that from his last comment. And he might have been right and I appreciate his sensitivity, except….…the violent content. IMO he should have called LE for the content and DCF for the parents’ obvious abrogation of duty. Ethan should have been out of that home ASAP.This article gives alot of detail about that school meeting with the counselor:
School Counselor Saw Warning Signs for 'A Couple of Days,' Said Ethan Crumbley Exhibited 'Suicidal Ideation' Before Mass Shooting: Testimony
A school counselor who interacted with alleged murderer Ethan Crumbley testified Thursday about what led up to a deadly school shooting in Michigan on Nov. 30, 2021.
There is nothing said about the counselor talking alone with the parents. Obviously, he talked alone with Ethan before the parents came to the meeting. The counselor said he did not leave Ethan alone.
Jennifer stopped the meeting abruptly by asking "Are we done?"
The meeting ended “abruptly,” Hopkins said.
“Are we done?” Jennifer Crumbley allegedly asked him.
He said Ethan Crumbley “wanted to return to class.”
Hopkins said a dean told him that there was “no” disciplinary reason as to why Crumbley could not return to class. Hopkins testified that he wrote a pass for Ethan to return to class and told him that he cared about him.
“I care about my students, and I cared about him in that moment particularly because I thought it was a really rough situation to be showing signs of needing — of needing support,” the counselor said. “And it felt like he got the opposite when I tried to get him that help and support.”
Ethan didn’t cry. His parents didn’t try to hug him or touch him. Ethan didn’t respond to the counselor’s statement of support, Hopkins said.
Hopkins said he checked to make sure he was “being marked present” for his additional courses in an attempt to ensure he wasn’t alone.
Hopkins said he was planning to follow up with Ethan Crumbley the next morning.
That plan was cut short ........
cottonweaver
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Genuine question - what would LE and DCF have done or told them to do?
Weki
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BBM - right. It’s hard for me to accept that in this day and age with all the school shootings going on this counselor didn’t have alarm bells going off in his head after seeing the drawings. Sensitivity and empathy for Ethan cost 4 lives and untold trauma to many. A counselor is not the right person to make this call. It should be an administrator. JMO
wyome
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In hindsight, it would have been a smart thing to do. Either could arrived and pulled him out of class that day and done some preliminary one on one questioning.
I'm guessing a law enforcement officer would have shown up quicker, and they are an intimidating presence to a 15 year old boy. He may have asked more probing questions, and he probably would have searched his backpack and locker. I mean we'll never know, of course, but having an officer question him further and search his property would would have been key. Honestly, with the bullet searching and the violent drawings on the math sheet....I can't believe the school didn't search. They may not have suspected he had a gun, but I would at least have expected them to search for other drawings to see if this is a new or one-time thing.
imstilla.grandma
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MI v. Jennifer Crumbley: School Shooter Mom Trial
Jennifer is charged with four counts of involuntary manslaughter. Her husband, James Crumbley, will stand trial on the same charges in March.
www.courttv.com
Megnut
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I'll go you one better-- it should have been a call to LE. There are things you can't shout in a theatre, utter on a plane or direct at a President. Zero tolerance. But honestly how wasn't the second question -- does he have access to weapons? Notable silence on the subject from the parents who did have the power to change the course of at least that day.
JMO
Kristin Esq.
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I somehow missed the first two days, but I've seen clips of defense counsel that has me questioning her.
IAMWAN
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Day 3 has started -- Defense decided to NOT redact any of the Facebook messages that they were fighting to redact last week. Defense apologized for her "I'm going to kill myself" statement last week.
First witness today is Kira Pennock (sp?). Owner of the horse boarding/barn facility.
First witness today is Kira Pennock (sp?). Owner of the horse boarding/barn facility.
Hello!
The judge reminds me of a therapist who's mediating between the parents (prosecution) and the child (defense).
Did I actually hear from the prosecution that the thread is 2,000 pages?
Kristin Esq.
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Since I missed last week, what was their original argument for redacting the Facebook messages?
Kira testified during the preliminary hearing that later on 11-30 when messaging with JC she didn't want JC coming to the barn because she didn't want JC taking anything of hers or other peoples.
This was in addition to Kira's concerns for JC's safety due to social media comments about her.
Neither the state or the defense followed up on Kira's statement.
So JC bought a horse online for $5,000 while drunk,
Maybe it will be addressed today?
Does anyone else find it bizarre that on 11-29 JC forwarded the gun/violent drawing that Ethan did in math class that was sent to her from the school to Kira, her boss Andrew Smith and co-worker Amanda?
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IAMWAN
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Specifically last week they were asking to redact a message that talked about getting drunk and riding horses.
In a previous motion, the judge "excluded from Crumbley's trial...her alleged affair, the shooter's Nazi coin, the messiness of their home, the presence of marijuana and alcohol in the home, and the shooter's multiple Instagram accounts that Crumbley did not follow." (Michigan judge excludes "bird evidence" from Jennifer Crumbley's trial)
This morning the defense said that they did not want it to seem like they were hiding anything from the jury.
IAMWAN
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I can't remember exactly but the number sounds about right? I remember the defense attorney mentioning the number of pages multiple times last week.
The judge made damn sure that the jurors don't get any sense of what kind of home environment EC lived in.
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