GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #5

[wyome]

How can she explain, when she testifies, why she would do that? What context can that be put into to not make it seem very strange?

The only thing I can think of is that she'll say she showed several people out of legit concern for her son, and she clearly wasn't hiding her knowledge of her son's troubles. She even told her boss that she felt she "failed" or something along those lines. She also told the farm owner that she was bringing EC that fateful day because he can't be "alone", proof that she was planning to follow the guidance counselor's advice. The defense imo is going to use all of this to try and prove she was a concerned parent, she just had no idea he was going to do what he did.

 

[Izzylizzy]

The only thing I can think of is that she'll say she showed several people out of legit concern for her son, and she clearly wasn't hiding her knowledge of her son's troubles. She even told her boss that she felt she "failed" or something along those lines. She also told the farm owner that she was bringing EC that fateful day because he can't be "alone", proof that she was planning to follow the guidance counselor's advice. The defense imo is going to use all of this to try and prove she was a concerned parent, she just had no idea he was going to do what he did.

In the meantime her lawyer denies that she knew her son was troubled and Smith's strategy is trying to put blame on those who had some minor indications that EC was troubled therefore if they were concerned why didn't they call the police or CPS after seeing the math/gun drawing.
It's the "look over there" strategy.

For me some of the most telling texts that JC was well aware that EC was a loose cannon was when she was frantically texting James asking if EC had gotten home from school yet, this was minutes before the time he usually arrives and saying she doesn't want him to do "something stupid"

 

[Izzylizzy]

The only thing I can think of is that she'll say she showed several people out of legit concern for her son, and she clearly wasn't hiding her knowledge of her son's troubles. She even told her boss that she felt she "failed" or something along those lines. She also told the farm owner that she was bringing EC that fateful day because he can't be "alone", proof that she was planning to follow the guidance counselor's advice. The defense imo is going to use all of this to try and prove she was a concerned parent, she just had no idea he was going to do what he did.

If she was concerned she would have let the school know about his brand new gun and the mental visions he claims to have been experiencing and all of his other concerning lifestyle habits and actions that she was well aware of.
No one who JC shared the drawing with or telling Kari she's bringing EC to the barn on the 30th had never been told anything by JC that was even close to what EC's behavior/problems were at home.

 

[tlcya]

at least Jennifer's attorney is coherent today and not joking about suicide but her examination of counselor Shawn Hopkins is a snooze and I am not sure what she hopes to elicit from this witness that might be helpful to her client save for the fact that Ethan wasn't one of the students he had to meet with parents about frequently.

 

[tlcya]

atty trying to make the point that it is unreasonable to expect that the Crumbleys could get Ethan in to a counseling appointment right away even if they had tried to same day. Hopkins gets a bit snarky with her in his response to her question, have you ever tried to arrange counseling for anyone, including himself. He responded with "I was there for the shooting so, yes, I had to get an appointment for MYSELF!" (PARAPHRASED BY ME)

 

[MrsWatson]

If they felt Ethan was in a mental health crisis, the C.S. Mott Children's Hospital, considered one of the best in the nation, is about an hour's drive from Oxford, located in Ann Arbor. There's also a branch in Flint. Presumably, Ethan also had a primary care doctor.

They had options for seeking immediate care for him.

moo

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

atty trying to make the point that it is unreasonable to expect that the Crumbleys could get Ethan in to a counseling appointment right away even if they had tried to same day. Hopkins gets a bit snarky with her in his response to her question, have you ever tried to arrange counseling for anyone, including himself. He responded with "I was there for the shooting so, yest, I had to get an appointment for MYSELF!" (PARAPHRASED BY ME)

The parent/s could have (and should have) taken their son to the Emergency Department at one of the several Oakland County hospitals. No need for an appointment. Ethan would have been evaluated by a team of psychiatrists/psychologists while in the Emergency Department. Depending on their observations, the teen might have been admitted for further evaluation and/or treatment. JMO

 

[tlcya]

agreed, but the parents lack of action and concern is so egregious that this is the best she can muster. MOO

 

[Izzylizzy]

At

If they felt Ethan was in a mental health crisis, the C.S. Mott Children's Hospital, considered one of the best in the nation, is about an hour's drive from Oxford, located in Ann Arbor. There's also a branch in Flint. Presumably, Ethan also had a primary care doctor.

They had options for seeking immediate care for him.

moo

Thanks for that info.
I was thinking that had the parents not been disingenuous /playing stupid during the meeting that the school admins would have helped making phone calls having what they all considered an emergency.
If push came to shove there are always the local ERs and the 51:50.

 

[Izzylizzy]

The video of the parents about 2pm on 11-30-21 at the police station.
Audio is bad.

video

First police interview with James and Jennifer Crumbley after school shooting

Prosecution played the first police interview with James and Jennifer Crumbley in the hours after the school shooting Nov. 30, 2021 at Oxford High School when the parents learned the extent of what happened.

www.fox2detroit.com

 

[wyome]

If they felt Ethan was in a mental health crisis, the C.S. Mott Children's Hospital, considered one of the best in the nation, is about an hour's drive from Oxford, located in Ann Arbor. There's also a branch in Flint. Presumably, Ethan also had a primary care doctor.

They had options for seeking immediate care for him.

moo

Crisis is an interesting choice of words. I think the defense may argue that she knew he we depressed and she was concerned, but didn't think it was a crisis.

It'll be really interesting how she does on the stand. I really want to know the situations regarding the "is he home yet, I don't want him to do something stupid" and the no memory night.

Is the dead bird being brought back into play, or is that still off limits? Or has the judge not ruled on that yet?

 

[wyome]

The video of the parents about 2pm on 11-30-21 at the police station.
Audio is bad.

video

First police interview with James and Jennifer Crumbley after school shooting

Prosecution played the first police interview with James and Jennifer Crumbley in the hours after the school shooting Nov. 30, 2021 at Oxford High School when the parents learned the extent of what happened.

www.fox2detroit.com

Thanks for this. Yes, very hard to hear every word. What struck me first was the distance between the parents. You'd think they'd be clinging to each other.

ETA: She almost immediately asks for a lawyer. But so far I haven't heard her ask to see her son.

 

[wyome]

Did I hear EC correctly in that police interview with the parents? The parents refused to ask any questions of EC, so LE ordered parents to leave. Did EC say "Please stay?" And JC responded "Why?" Was it the dad that then left saying "I love you I love you I love you...?"

 

[wyome]

OMG if I heard that correctly in watching that clip, I am beyond disturbed. Zero discussion for the 2 minutes they got with their son. And again, no one touched him. Neither parent wanted to question or engage with him.

 

[tlcya]

Thanks for this. Yes, very hard to hear every word. What struck me first was the distance between the parents. You'd think they'd be clinging to each other.

ETA: She almost immediately asks for a lawyer. But so far I haven't heard her ask to see her son.

emphasis by me

This jumped out at me. how very quickly she said I think maybe we need a lawyer. Not can we talk our son. Not is our son okay. Not we are obtaining a lawyer for our son. Not please do not speak with our son we are hiring him a lawyer. Simply I think WE need a lawyer.

Also, to me, it appears she wears the marital pants. she interrupts him several times to drive the conversation (IMO) and he seems to trail off sometimes and look to her as if to see if what he is saying is okay.

Last note, Jennifer is way too focused on scrolling through her phone for my liking. Your kid just killed schoolmates and you are scrolling your phone while detectives interview you? What is THAT?

ETA one more thing: Did Jennifer turn back to Ethan and say "I tried" to which he responded repeatedly I love you I love You I love you? Or was that Mr. Crumbley saying the I love you's?

 

[Izzylizzy]

Did I hear EC correctly in that police interview with the parents? The parents refused to ask any questions of EC, so LE ordered parents to leave. Did EC say "Please stay?" And JC responded "Why?" Was it the dad that then left saying "I love you

Thanks for this. Yes, very hard to hear every word. What struck me first was the distance between the parents. You'd think they'd be clinging to each other.

ETA: She almost immediately asks for a lawyer. But so far I haven't heard her ask to see her son.

I love you I love you...?"

Here's youtube with much better audio, louder.
Issue is EC and parents are cut off at the end.

 

[Izzylizzy]

emphasis by me

This jumped out at me. how very quickly she said I think maybe we need a lawyer. Not can we talk our son. Not is our son okay. Not we are obtaining a lawyer for our son. Not please do not speak with our son we are hiring him a lawyer. Simply I think WE need a lawyer.

Also, to me, it appears she wears the marital pants. she interrupts him several times to drive the conversation (IMO) and he seems to trail off sometimes and look to her as if to see if what he is saying is okay.

Last note, Jennifer is way too focused on scrolling through her phone for my liking. Your kid just killed schoolmates and you are scrolling your phone while detectives interview you? What is THAT?

ETA one more thing: Did Jennifer turn back to Ethan and say "I tried" to which he responded repeatedly I love you I love You I love you? Or was that Mr. Crumbley saying the I love you's?

In a long New York article I posted over the weekend neighbors said that James is very friendly and talkative, always high and asks if you want a beer.
It was James telling EC "I love you".
JC has been described as wearing the pants and always right.
James's ex-girlfriend slammed JC big time.
Did either one even ask about the victims then or since then?
I know people react differently but I would have been passing out and when I came to (through?) I'd be vomiting.
Wash, rinse repeat.

 

[Izzylizzy]

emphasis by me

This jumped out at me. how very quickly she said I think maybe we need a lawyer. Not can we talk our son. Not is our son okay. Not we are obtaining a lawyer for our son. Not please do not speak with our son we are hiring him a lawyer. Simply I think WE need a lawyer.

Also, to me, it appears she wears the marital pants. she interrupts him several times to drive the conversation (IMO) and he seems to trail off sometimes and look to her as if to see if what he is saying is okay.

Last note, Jennifer is way too focused on scrolling through her phone for my liking. Your kid just killed schoolmates and you are scrolling your phone while detectives interview you? What is THAT?

ETA one more thing: Did Jennifer turn back to Ethan and say "I tried" to which he responded repeatedly I love you I love You I love you? Or was that Mr. Crumbley saying the I love you's?

Scrolling her phone.
Today Smith focused on that with one of the detectives who interviewed her and Smith was claiming that she was just scrolling trying to enlarge the drawing, which is BS because she scrolled and texted during the interview.
Prosecutor had questioned the detective and after Smith did her rebuttal about it the prosecutor let it ride.

 

[LMDlong]

Did I hear EC correctly in that police interview with the parents? The parents refused to ask any questions of EC, so LE ordered parents to leave. Did EC say "Please stay?" And JC responded "Why?" Was it the dad that then left saying "I love you I love you I love you...?"

That’s what I heard.

 

[LMDlong]

Scrolling her phone.
Today Smith focused on that with one of the detectives who interviewed her and Smith was claiming that she was just scrolling trying to enlarge the drawing, which is BS because she scrolled and texted during the interview.
Prosecutor had questioned the detective and after Smith did her rebuttal about it the prosecutor let it ride.

IMO She was more interested in her phone than the welfare of her son.
And she has really changed. I thought I had remembered wrong how the parents looked after the shooting.