GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[worm]

Looks like the Michigan legislature passed firearm safe storage legislation and Michigan governor signed the bill into law in April 2023. Interesting data that half of all gun owners don't store or lock their guns.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/news/press-releases/2023/04/13/whitmer-signs-commonsense-gun-violence-prevention-legislation-to-keep-michigan-communities-safe

“Over half of all gun owners don’t store and lock their guns, which means millions of young children live in homes with unlocked and loaded firearms,” said state Representative Felicia Brabec (D-Pittsfield Township), chair of the Michigan Firearm Safety and Violence Prevention Caucus. “That’s why we’ve introduced bills that crate safe storage requirements for firearm owners with children in the home. By keeping guns properly stored, we can prevent even the potential misuse of those weapons by children. We have a chance and a responsibility to change the culture around keeping guns responsibly and securely stored. I have high hopes that these bills will not only encourage responsible gun ownership but that they will save Michiganders’ lives.”


BBM

NC has a rule in place that protects the gun owner if they tried to secure the weapon. Sounds like an easy workaround to the laws.

 

[cottonweaver]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1754540892650602946

 

[Izzylizzy]

My 2 cents
12 vote yes on lack to provide reasonable care.

 

[Sundog]

My 2 cents
12 vote yes on lack to provide reasonable care.

Possible, if they can convince the hold-outs.

 

[DFWNF]

Here's a look at the new Michigan gun laws taking effect in February

Today is the first day of 2024 and officially in just more than a month, there will be a change with the current gun laws that are in place right now.

www.wxyz.com

(WXYZ) — Today is the first day of 2024 and officially in just more than a month, there will be a change with the current gun laws that are in place right now.
These changes stem from recent mass shootings in Michigan: one at Oxford High School in 2021 where four students died and others were injured, and last year, at Michigan State University, where three students lost their lives and another five students were injured.
Governor Gretchen Whitmer signed these laws last year aiming to reduce gun violence.

Here's a look at some of the new laws surrounding firearms that go into effect on February 13:
First up is Michigan's new gun storage law. This new law aims to improve safe storage of firearms.
How does this law impact you as a gun owner?
If you're a firearm owner, you must lock your guns in the presence of anyone under the age of 18.

If a minor obtains a gun because it was not stored properly, you the owner could face 93 days in jail.

If a minor obtains a gun and hurts someone with it, a person could be found guilty of a felony punishable of up to 5 years in jail.

And if a minor uses that unsecured firearm and kills someone with that unsecured firearm, the owner of that weapon could be charged with a felony and face a 15 year prison sentence.
Fines for any violation range from $500 to $5,000.

(more)

15 years for each would be great imo. About time.

 

[wyome]

Sorry if this has already been asked...just joining.

If Guilty:
Does the judge provide the sentencing, or will this same jury have to deliberate later as to what they think the sentence should be. And if the jury recommends say 10 years, does the judge have the authority to give her something different?

 

[Weki]

Judge determines penalty not jury. The Crumbley parents have been sitting in jail for 2 years on a $500k bond each. She’s facing up to 15 years I believe for each count.

 

[TTF14]

Judge determines penalty not jury. The Crumbley parents have been sitting in jail for 2 years on a $500k bond each. She’s facing up to 15 years I believe for each count.

I suspect that if she's found guilty she will get 15 years for each count, served concurrently.

 

[arielilane]

@cathyrusson

Jury heading home in a few minutes and will return tomorrow morning to continue deliberations.


4:36 PM · Feb 5, 2024

 

[arielilane]

Can I change my mind? it is good jurors are taking their time, however, earlier I said it will be guilty, but it's looking more like a hung jury, deadlocked jury. moo

 

[arielilane]

This is a difficult case, and I commend the jury for their commitment to whatever their decision may be. I would not want to be on this jury panel. Their service is greatly appreciated. moo

 

[GRT]

Can I change my mind? it is good jurors are taking their time, however, earlier I said it will be guilty, but it's looking more like a hung jury, deadlocked jury. moo

I agree.

The longer it goes, the more I think it will go in JC's favor or end with a hung jury.

You're right--it is good they're taking their time--this case has the potential to set a controversial precedent and become a slippery slope.

 

[arielilane]

@cathyrusson

Judge is allowing 3 of the 5 alternate jurors to "sequester" at home tomorrow. The other two have to come back to the courthouse and sequester in a separate room as all 5 did today. ALL alternates still remain as possible jurors.


4:47 PM · Feb 5, 2024

 

[DFWNF]

Looks like the Michigan legislature passed firearm safe storage legislation and Michigan governor signed the bill into law in April 2023. Interesting data that half of all gun owners don't store or lock their guns.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/news/press-releases/2023/04/13/whitmer-signs-commonsense-gun-violence-prevention-legislation-to-keep-michigan-communities-safe

“Over half of all gun owners don’t store and lock their guns, which means millions of young children live in homes with unlocked and loaded firearms,” said state Representative Felicia Brabec (D-Pittsfield Township), chair of the Michigan Firearm Safety and Violence Prevention Caucus. “That’s why we’ve introduced bills that crate safe storage requirements for firearm owners with children in the home. By keeping guns properly stored, we can prevent even the potential misuse of those weapons by children. We have a chance and a responsibility to change the culture around keeping guns responsibly and securely stored. I have high hopes that these bills will not only encourage responsible gun ownership but that they will save Michiganders’ lives.”


BBM

Ibm. That is horrific. Imo.

 

[TTF14]

Can I change my mind? it is good jurors are taking their time, however, earlier I said it will be guilty, but it's looking more like a hung jury, deadlocked jury. moo

I started the day thinking not guilty, then after the first question, guilty, and now I'm with you....hung jury.

 

[DFWNF]

In Michigan, the existing law is around parents' legal duty to take reasonable/ordinary care to prevent their minors deliberately harming others ( it was also in the jury instructions which are linked above)

it's more complicated than that - see link - but in short no you couldn't reasonably make a parent liable for everything a minor does ( reasonable risks vs unreasonable risks etc)

existing law, as in existing prior to the OHS murders

Thanks, I had read it all. A crying shame.

 

[Sundog]

I suspect that if she's found guilty she will get 15 years for each count, served concurrently.

So would she be eligible for parole in 2 1/2 years? I think she has already served about 2 1/2 years. That is, if she is eligible for parole after serving 5 years of a15 year sentence, not sure what the guideliens are before first parole hearing).

In any event, if she is found guilty, I am assuming there will be an appeal. Given this is the first case like this in the country, an appeal is very likely, as it should be.

 

[Sundog]

Ibm. That is horrific. Imo.

Yes, but it shows that JC and JamesC were not in the minority of individuals who don't lock up their guns. And if Michigan law didn't require it, I just don't see how they can be guilty of manslaughter.

 

[KMouse]

I have the same question.

It seems odd that neither the prosecution nor the defense called him to testify. He could have given valuable insight about his mental health, how he felt, whether he appealed to his parents or a school counselor for help, etc.

But his claiming demons were in the house strikes me a kid making stuff up, which many kids do. Trying to get attention. Trying to be funny.

I would not have put that down to hallucinations. I don't think anyone--even the neighbors--were too concerned.

True.
IMO sub par parenting is letting a child go out without a coat on and get sick (1 example) . Not locking a gun up is not sub par parenting. Jmo

Wasn't there other firearms in the home? How long had they been there for? That particular gun could have been locked up, trigger locks on, gun safe keys stashed away and he could have still taken the keys and gotten what he wanted. If there wasn't any laws back then about safe storage or buying guns for minors then no laws were broken. I am not saying I agree with it or that I would be besties with the Crumbleys just that legally I don't think they are guilty as charged.

 

[Sundog]

Wasn't there other firearms in the home? How long had they been there for? That particular gun could have been locked up, trigger locks on, gun safe keys stashed away and he could have still taken the keys and gotten what he wanted. If there wasn't any laws back then about safe storage or buying guns for minors then no laws were broken. I am not saying I agree with it or that I would be besties with the Crumbleys just that legally I don't think they are guilty as charged.

Good point about the history of other guns in the home.