GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[KMouse]

If JC is found not guilty how do you think visits with EC would work? Under glass at the jail like normal? I guess he would be able to call her and she would be able to write to him.

 

[lonetraveler]

I have thought since the beginning that she has been mischarged. IMO, should have been criminal negligence resulting in death.

 

[texaslb218]

Can I change my mind? it is good jurors are taking their time, however, earlier I said it will be guilty, but it's looking more like a hung jury, deadlocked jury. moo

Yes, of course. I can't guess. I was and am all for EC getting LWOP as I say again---he is too dangerous to count on rehabilitation. Public safety is the first consideration MOO.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Law & Crime

Why the Oxford shooter didn’t testify at his mother’s manslaughter trial

Despite repeated requests from the defense, the Oxford High School shooter did not testify at his mother’s involuntary manslaughter trial as previously thought possible.

www.clickondetroit.com

OXFORD, Mich. – Despite repeated requests from the defense, the Oxford High School shooter did not testify at his mother’s involuntary manslaughter trial as previously thought possible.

Last week during the trial of Jennifer Crumbley, defense attorney Shannon Smith made it clear she wanted to call the shooter to the witness stand.

In the years since the shooting, a large catalogue of evidence has been discussed in court, including journal entries and text messages written by the shooter that criticize his parents and their alleged lack of attention. Still, the defense had hoped to call the shooter to the stand in defense of his mother.

It could’ve been a beneficial approach for the defense if the now-sentenced shooter spoke approvingly of his mother and accepted sole responsibility for the Nov. 30, 2021, shooting -- as he did in a statement during his sentencing hearing in December 2023...

I wonder if someone from WDIV (Channel 4, Detroit) is reading here and posted this article when questions were asked earlier about why Ethan didn't testify at his mother's trial?

Could EC's journal and texts to his friend be used in his appeal

Looks like the Michigan legislature passed firearm safe storage legislation and Michigan governor signed the bill into law in April 2023. Interesting data that half of all gun owners don't store or lock their guns.

https://www.michigan.gov/whitmer/news/press-releases/2023/04/13/whitmer-signs-commonsense-gun-violence-prevention-legislation-to-keep-michigan-communities-safe

“Over half of all gun owners don’t store and lock their guns, which means millions of young children live in homes with unlocked and loaded firearms,” said state Representative Felicia Brabec (D-Pittsfield Township), chair of the Michigan Firearm Safety and Violence Prevention Caucus. “That’s why we’ve introduced bills that crate safe storage requirements for firearm owners with children in the home. By keeping guns properly stored, we can prevent even the potential misuse of those weapons by children. We have a chance and a responsibility to change the culture around keeping guns responsibly and securely stored. I have high hopes that these bills will not only encourage responsible gun ownership but that they will save Michiganders’ lives.”


BBM

This makes sense considering Michigan's prior we don't give a *advertiser censored* about kids,says our gun storage laws.

Legislation could ban Michigan from sentencing juveniles ...​

Detroit Free Press
https://www.freep.com › michigan › 2023/05/22 › le...



May 22, 2023 — Michigan has the highest number of juvenile lifers in the country. Advocates are pushing for laws that would ban sentencing kids to life ...

 

[Izzylizzy]

I suspect that if she's found guilty she will get 15 years for each count, served concurrently.

I see Matthews going real easy on JC.
Hopefully she doesn't sentence like she ran her courtroom.
Like a therapist mediating and wants everyone to be happy and like her.

 

[TobyWong*]

If JC is found not guilty how do you think visits with EC would work? Under glass at the jail like normal? I guess he would be able to call her and she would be able to write to him.

I dont think she thinks about him or will care to be in contact w him in the future as in the past imo. Shes that kind of helicopter mom...

 

[Izzylizzy]

Good point about the history of other guns in the home.

EC's gun was a 9mm Sig Sauer semi-automatic handgun, the other 2 guns in the house weren't semi-automatic.
He called it his "beauty

'Semi-automatic refers to a firearm which uses' the force of recoil or gas to eject the empty case and load a fresh cartridge into the firing chamber for the next shot and which allows repeat shots solely through the action of pulling the trigger.

Semi-automatic firearm - Wikipedia​

Wikipedia
https://en.wikipedia.org › wiki › Semi-automatic_firearm

 

[Izzylizzy]

Matthews said "no" only the evidence she let in.
What do you think the jury is referring to?
I'm confused,


"During deliberations Tuesday, the jury of six men and six women asked two questions of the judge, including one that involved the shooter, and whether or not jurors can infer anything about this case based on the fact that the shooter didn't testify, or any other witnesses who could explain how he got the gun.

That question was the second one of the day, with jurors asking whether they can infer anything based on evidence or witnesses that the prosecution did not present. More specifically, the jury asked whether it could infer anything by the prosecution not bringing in the shooter, or anyone else who could answer how he got the gun.'

Jennifer Crumbley jury goes home after full day of deliberation

Seventeen jurors heard all the evidence in the involuntary manslaughter case. Five were randomly chosen as alternates Monday before deliberations began.

www.freep.com

 

[Weki]

A hung jury is basically a Not Guilty verdict. I seriously doubt the state will elect to try this again. And I think they will dismiss charges against James as well. They’ve been punished enough imo.

I may come back here to eat my words if the jury votes Guilty!

JMO

Edited to add - I should add they won’t retry unless it’s 10-2 or 11-1 for guilty. I doubt it will be that though. I think it will be split down the middle

 

[Boodles]

I have thought since the beginning that she has been mischarged. IMO, should have been criminal negligence resulting in death.

Is that an actual law? Because that’s what the elements of the manslaughter changes essentially boil down to, per the jury instructions.

 

[wyome]

If JC is found not guilty how do you think visits with EC would work? Under glass at the jail like normal? I guess he would be able to call her and she would be able to write to him.

I do believe JC, if found not guilty, will visit her son, and yes probably between a glass partition.
I kind of hope that for them.

 

[wyome]

A hung jury is basically a Not Guilty verdict. I seriously doubt the state will elect to try this again. And I think they will dismiss charges against James as well. They’ve been punished enough imo.

I may come back here to eat my words if the jury votes Guilty!

JMO

Edited to add - I should add they won’t retry unless it’s 10-2 or 11-1 for guilty. I doubt it will be that though. I think it will be split down the middle

I do hope it's not a hung jury and that JC is found not guilty. This is a tragedy. Seeking to blame parents is not the way to fix this culture.

 

[cottonweaver]

I do hope it's not a hung jury and that JC is found not guilty. This is a tragedy. Seeking to blame parents is not the way to fix this culture.

By contrast, how do you feel about the culpability of the school?

IMO zero chance of an acquittal. Zero.

---------------
also a Hung Jury = no verdict ( HJ doesn't mean Not Guilty)
because the jury can't reach any verdict. Mistrial. ( Verdict in this case has to be unanimous)

 

[worm]

By contrast, how do you feel about the culpability of the school?

IMO zero chance of an acquittal. Zero.

---------------
also a Hung Jury = no verdict ( HJ doesn't mean Not Guilty)
because the jury can't reach any verdict. Mistrial. ( Verdict in this case has to be unanimous)

I was torn at first but there’s a time when gun owners should own the responsibility of them as well. There is no right to irresponsibility.

 

[wyome]

I'm not sure to be honest. I'm not one to have a lot of trust in school counselors or guidance personnel or principal. My kids went to a private school K-12, so we had issues with influential parents paying their kids out of trouble and athletes running wild without scrutiny.

To answer your question as directly as I can, I think a lot of these school officials are weak in experience and make next to nothing. I think may be overwhelmed and not adequately skilled.

 

[LMDlong]

A hung jury is basically a Not Guilty verdict. I seriously doubt the state will elect to try this again. And I think they will dismiss charges against James as well. They’ve been punished enough imo.

I may come back here to eat my words if the jury votes Guilty!

JMO

Edited to add - I should add they won’t retry unless it’s 10-2 or 11-1 for guilty. I doubt it will be that though. I think it will be split down the middle

I don’t think Jame will get off completely, the gun was in is name .

 

[DFWNF]

Yes, but it shows that JC and JamesC were not in the minority of individuals who don't lock up their guns. And if Michigan law didn't require it, I just don't see how they can be guilty of manslaughter.

That is what is tragic. And all the shootings continue. Hope caring good parents are on the jury, I read the descriptions of the jurors.

 

[cottonweaver]

I'm not sure to be honest. I'm not one to have a lot of trust in school counselors or guidance personnel or principal. My kids went to a private school K-12, so we had issues with influential parents paying their kids out of trouble and athletes running wild without scrutiny.

To answer your question as directly as I can, I think a lot of these school officials are weak in experience and make next to nothing. I think may be overwhelmed and not adequately skilled.

I agree. The investigation already shows that too. ( Board and Superintendant's wouldn't even speak to the school investigators.)
There is plenty of negligence to go around.

Anyway, I can imagine JC also suing the school, if at any stage down the line she is released because the state doesn't retry. Laughing all the way to the bank, as the saying goes.
Would she fill EC - or James's - commissary in the future? Possibly, I'm not sure.

 

[DFWNF]

I have thought since the beginning that she has been mischarged. IMO, should have been criminal negligence resulting in death.

Hi lonetraveler, what is the sentence for that, and would it be 4 charges? Thank you.

 

[cottonweaver]

I don’t think Jame will get off completely, the gun was in is name .

Won't he just blame his wife when he's tried in March this year?