GUILTY MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, Oxford High School shooting, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents* *teen guilty* #6

[Izzylizzy]

One crucial factor that we found out from JC's testimony was when she said that when she got home from Black Friday shopping she was angry that James & EC weren't home yet because they delayed getting their Christmas tree.
Not angry because James and EC were purchasing a semi-automatic handgun that EC really,really wanted and she didn't want him to have yet James bought it for him anyway.

According to the testimony of the Acme gun store sales woman, when they entered the store they went directly to the semi-automatic handgun.
It appears that EC already had the handgun picked out.
He called it "my beauty".

 

[Cool Cats]

[PDF]

Sentencing Guidelines Manual - Michigan Courts​

 

[Weki]

The sentencing hearing is gonna be brutal. I expect the parents will all speak. I have felt throughout this trial that the judge was sympathetic to JC. I don’t know what a fair sentence would be in this case but I’m doubtful it will be consecutive. Or she may give her a low sentence for each and make it consecutive. She’s already done 2 years in jail. I just don’t see this judge throwing the book at her. She was so nurturing to Shannon Smith as she had her several meltdowns. I could be way off like I was about the verdict. Ha!

JMO

 

[Izzylizzy]

[PDF]

Sentencing Guidelines Manual - Michigan Courts​

Curious what sentence the prosecutors will be asking for.

 

[cottonweaver]

Little bit of commentary from Court TV's staff including estimates on total sentence JC might face. ( concurrent expected by one commentator. 7-8 years total says Judge Ashley)
Starts around 6mins in, after recap

 

[wyome]

A couple things that may have influenced the guilty verdict:

1. Her testimony. She was indignant and said she wouldn’t change a thing!

2. The “Don’t do it” text she sent EC after she left the school. Don’t do what??? State failed to hammer this but it’s a very incriminating piece of evidence against her.

3. When she slipped up and said “we took his gun away the night before” and then lied and said she didn’t say that. That’s the strongest piece of evidence that the gun was probably in EC’s possession the night before.

4. If he never had possession of the gun like she claimed, how did he get it that morning to take to school? Makes no sense. He had the gun with him all along and they never thought to check at the school once they were called. And just left like ‘whatever.’ Then as soon as they heard about the shooting THEY KNEW IT WAS HIM!!! How?? Suggests they had considered it prior to the shooting.

JMO

Excellent summary of things that may have influenced the guilty verdict.
When she said she wouldn't change a thing, I literally gasped. I'm sure she was directed to say that by her attorney, but it was a gross tactic, and although I understand where they were going with this, you just don't say that when four children are dead. I would have preferred her to say that she wishes she would have read his journal to understand the magnitude of his mental anguish and violent thoughts.

She did come off very smug and robotic when answering questions. I don't recall her crying once on the stand.

The slip up with the taking away the gun was major. I remember being shocked that the prosecution didn't play that up or point that out, even in closing. Maybe they could read this jury from day one that they had a solid jury that would play well with them.

 

[cottonweaver]

Attorney Todd Flood's commentary
starts around 5 mins into the show.

Notes:
Shannon got very close to jury nullification. JC taking the stand probably harmed her case - he raises a few points we also made about her impeachability and for example the implausibility of ' helicopter parent' and JC's lack of expressed regrets as to whether she would've done anything differently in hindsight - which we were reacting to live that day on WS.
Also why he thinks it took 11 hrs deliberation

At 18mins Judge Kenney briefly comments on precedence and JC ' blew through a lot of red lights.' ( warnings re EC)
Also comments on her lack of credibility and the overshoot on ' hypervigilance' etc.
Sentencing presents unprecedented issues, the guidelines are advisory. ( Landmark only as far as mass shooter category but parents do get convicted for reckless gun ownership)

Reporter says that jurors were paying close attention during trial and quite a few were taking notes throughout and says that JC seem surprised or shocked at the verdict

10 -15yr sentence requires parole board involvement. Todd Flood comes back on the show to opine on what James C 's defense attorney will do differently, learning from Jenn's trial. He also characterises the approach to Ethan C as akin to ' abandonment'

 

[wyome]

Attorney Todd Flood's commentary
starts around 5 mins into the show.

Shannon got very close to jury nullification. JC taking the stand probably harmed her case - he raises a few points we also made re implausibility of ' helicopter parent' and JC's lack of expressed regrets as to whether she would've done anything differently in hindisght - which we were reacting to live that day on WS.
Why he thinks it took 11 hrs deliberation

Oh wow, forgot about the helicopter parent claim by her attorney. Yeah, nobody buys that and it was a stupid thing for an attorney to assert about a client who's being charged for 4 deaths.

 

[cottonweaver]

Oxford victim's dad reacts from outside the court room​

 

[Weki]

Excellent summary of things that may have influenced the guilty verdict.
When she said she wouldn't change a thing, I literally gasped. I'm sure she was directed to say that by her attorney, but it was a gross tactic, and although I understand where they were going with this, you just don't say that when four children are dead. I would have preferred her to say that she wishes she would have read his journal to understand the magnitude of his mental anguish and violent thoughts.

She did come off very smug and robotic when answering questions. I don't recall her crying once on the stand.

The slip up with the taking away the gun was major. I remember being shocked that the prosecution didn't play that up or point that out, even in closing. Maybe they could read this jury from day one that they had a solid jury that would play well with them.

Her affect during her testimony is also indicative of abusive and neglectful parents. They have no shame in their game. She was checked out of her marriage and of her role as Mother and she feels justified in being that way. She likely feels angry that she married a loser and had his ‘Oopsie baby.’ And that son turned out to be a loser too. She thinks she’s the victim of circumstances. It’s a passive, irresponsible mindset and that came across loud and clear. Any good enough parent would be ASHAMED! Would be crying on the stand and feel guilty even if they don’t think they are criminally guilty. Morally guilty. Of course she doesn’t want to be found guilty but where was the grief, where was the sense of responsibility in hindsight?

I feel guilty when I’ve been rude to someone. Imagine not feeling responsible for something like this??

JMO

 

[Cool Cats]

Excellent summary of things that may have influenced the guilty verdict.
When she said she wouldn't change a thing, I literally gasped. I'm sure she was directed to say that by her attorney, but it was a gross tactic, and although I understand where they were going with this, you just don't say that when four children are dead. I would have preferred her to say that she wishes she would have read his journal to understand the magnitude of his mental anguish and violent thoughts.

She did come off very smug and robotic when answering questions. I don't recall her crying once on the stand.

The slip up with the taking away the gun was major. I remember being shocked that the prosecution didn't play that up or point that out, even in closing. Maybe they could read this jury from day one that they had a solid jury that would play well with them.

Could you go over the gun slip up?

Said she took away the gun then back-tracked to target practice?

 

[wyome]

Could you go over the gun slip up?

Said she took away the gun then back-tracked to target practice?

She said the night before the shootings (prosecution cross), that she took away his phone, the gun, and shooting range privileges. The prosecution quickly went on to another question, then paused asked her something along the lines of, "So you took away his gun after the fight?" And she said, no I took away his gun privileges at the range. She clearly stated she took away the gun. And prosecutors never brought it up again, even in closing. I thought that was a missed opportunity for the prosecution to expose her.

 

[RickshawFan]

Excellent summary of things that may have influenced the guilty verdict.
When she said she wouldn't change a thing, I literally gasped. I'm sure she was directed to say that by her attorney, but it was a gross tactic, and although I understand where they were going with this, you just don't say that when four children are dead. I would have preferred her to say that she wishes she would have read his journal to understand the magnitude of his mental anguish and violent thoughts.

She did come off very smug and robotic when answering questions. I don't recall her crying once on the stand.

The slip up with the taking away the gun was major. I remember being shocked that the prosecution didn't play that up or point that out, even in closing. Maybe they could read this jury from day one that they had a solid jury that would play well with them.

"I wouldn't have changed a thing" would put JC in a position to foster the context where something violent will happen AGAIN. IMO the sentence had better reflect that.

 

[Izzylizzy]

In hindsight it was all down hill fro JC from here

 

[MargieBee]

The Jury Foreperson speaks briefly about their decision

 

[Izzylizzy]

In hindsight it was all downhill for Smith when she opened using Taylor Swift lyrics.

 

[Cool Cats]

In hindsight it was all down hill fro JC from here

Or you could say it was an up hill battle to show she was an attentive mother.

 

[Weki]

The Jury Foreperson speaks briefly about their decision

Almost wish she hadn’t said anything. She said ‘the thing that really hammered it home was that she was the last person with the gun.’ And then she skedaddled. JC was holding the gun at the shooting range when they were leaving after their target practice. She said she left the gun in the car for James to put away when he got home. Does the jury think that’s where EC picked it up from the day of the shooting and took it to school? It was in the car the whole time? Hmmmm….makes sense!

 

[Izzylizzy]

The Jury Foreperson speaks briefly about their decision

Thank You...She did sound very confident and quite young reading the guilty verdicts.

According to the jury foreman what drove the guilty verdict home was that JC was the last adult with the gun.
That would have to have been at the shooting range.

Looks like there's no gag order on the jurors, judges usually talk to jurors when trials are over about speaking to the press.
I've only heard from past trials that it's up to the juror and never heard of a gag order still being involved in another trial.

 

[MrsWatson]

I think she'll get 7-8 years for each count, served concurrently. I think that will only be because the judge has some empathy for her. MI doesn't move too far off sentencing guidelines, imo, so I don't see her getting time served or any sort of home confinement. Four people died, others were left with life-changing injuries. I think she'll definitely do prison time. MOO, though.

MI has one Women's Correctional Facility, Huron Valley.