MI - 4 students killed, 6 injured, shooting at Oxford High School, 30 Nov 2021 *Arrest incl parents*

[IzzyBlanche]

@Cryptic Yes, it was Oppenheimer. And I agree that it suggests he's read or otherwise educated himself on subjects outside the typical American school curriculum.

 

[Cryptic]

@Cryptic Yes, it was Oppenheimer. And I agree that it suggests he's read or otherwise educated himself on subjects outside the typical American school curriculum.

Thanks for the Oppenheimer confirmation. He was a brilliant engineer and organizer who appears to also have had quite reservations about the "project".

The partial quote is pretty obscure, even by standards of card carrying library nerds such as myself.

Thus, I am thinking that either his reading habits are far outside the norm of most US high school students, or.... somebody gave it to him.

I think it might help to evaluate his academic inclinations and see if he likely read the source material, or if perhaps he had an academically inclined collaborator who supplied it to him.

 

[MollyDDD]

Now, that is strange.

The quote is from Hindu scripture and was also uttered by one of the atomic bomb scientists / engineers (Oppenheimer?) upon witnessing the atomic bomb test in New Mexico.

The full quote goes something like: "And now I have become death, destroyer of worlds" .

I think the quote is attributed to the Hindu god Shiva. As a further side note, I believe some Hindu gods are dual natured. The natures might be opposites, though I am not sure.

In either case, very few high schoolers are familiar with atomic bomb scientists or Hindu scriptures. Perhaps the perpetrator is a voracious reader?

If the perpetrator is not academically inclined, I wonder where he obtained the quote from? It does not seem like something one would readily find on a google search.

This could in turn perhaps indicate that he was being groomed, "fed" or perhaps directed by another party?

Possibly is parents?

 

[MollyDDD]

His eyes...

Defiant. Too young to be that way. IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

. Just really unbelievable- Dad wasn’t wondering where his new gun was ? Sorry but I feel this is one case where the parents were truly neglectful.

I agree. They raised that child. Mind control perhaps. IMO

 

[dotr]

Fwiw.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185914/
''Heroes
Chapter Four 'I Am Become Death'

• ''Having time-traveled four years in the future, the future Peter shows his younger counterpart that people have access to drugs that give them various super powers and some of them will destroy the world. Past Peter is forced to run from the dark and evil future versions of Claire, Daphne, and Knox, all of whom work as killers for government agencies to track him down.''

 

[MollyDDD]

PICTURED: 'Bullied' Michigan high school shooter Ethan Crumbley | Daily Mail Online
Multiple guns were removed from the family home - it doesn’t say if they were locked up or not so we can’t assume that they weren’t.
This is so, so sad.

It should be criminal! Responsible parents don’t leave matches, medicines, poisons, knives, lit candles, the stove on or guns around the house for your kids to get into. This is neglectful and abusive behavior. IMO

 

[MollyDDD]

Fwiw.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185914/
''Heroes
Chapter Four 'I Am Become Death'

• ''Having time-traveled four years in the future, the future Peter shows his younger counterpart that people have access to drugs that give them various super powers and some of them will destroy the world. Past Peter is forced to run from the dark and evil future versions of Claire, Daphne, and Knox, all of whom work as killers for government agencies to track him down.''

My God.

 

[MollyDDD]

Three students are dead, others injured after shooting at Michigan high school | Daily Mail Online


Chilling footage captured by a student shows classmates huddled beneath desks inside a barricaded classroom as a killer gunman roams the halls, trying to convince would-be victims that it was safe to emerge from hiding.

'Sheriff's office,' the boy said. 'You can come out.'

Students exchange glances as one whispers 'he said it's safe to come out.' But one skeptical classmate declined to open the door, saying: 'We're not willing to take that risk right now.'

The gunman shouts back something illegible before calling his classmate 'bro' and in that sickening moment, classmates began jumping out a window after realizing the self-professed cop was actually the shooter.

The suspected shooter, a sophomore at the school, was arrested within five minutes of the original call, police said and added an on-scene school resource officer assisted in nabbing him.

Upward of 20 shots were fired by the teen as 911 operators received more than 100 frantic 911 calls.

Masses of stunned students, some crying and others huddled together, emerged from the school following the massacre.

Just chilling. Why? What has happened to people? What is happening to us?

 

[dotr]

rbbm.
‘It was troubling. It was disturbing’: Additional piece of evidence uncovered in Oxford High School shooting investigation
''Charging this person as an adult is necessary to achieve justice and protect the public,” McDonald said. “Any other option would put all of us at risk of this person because they could be released and still a threat.”

McDonald said the evidence indicates the shooting was “not just an impulsive act.” She said there is “a mountain of digital evidence” and it has been reviewed. She said the evidence indicates the shooting was planned well before it happened.
McDonald also said prosecutors are considering charges against both of Crumbley’s parents, and a decision is expected swiftly.''

“There is an additional piece of evidence that hasn’t been released yet, but I can assure you it was troubling. It was disturbing and unfortunately he was allowed to go back to class,” McDonald said.

 

[Marysmith]

I am not in any way saying that bullying is an excuse for this guy's behavior AT ALL.

Nor do we have confirmation that he was bullied, but I tend to believe the students who say he was over the reports that the school had no record of him being bullied. Reporting a bully will just get you more bullying if the bully is confronted by school authorities.

As someone who was bullied at the age of 7, I can tell you right now that I am still affected by it 50 decades later. My bullies did things to me that I have never been able to reveal to another human being, not even the multiple therapists I've had over the those decades.

In my case the bullying lasted only that one year, but I can understand how someone who had been bullied long-term could snap. There have been documented cases of kids who were being bullied killing themselves. It's not a reach to me to think that other kids being bullied might lash out at others instead of themselves.

Again, I am not making excuses for his behavior on account of the alleged bullying. I'm saying that being bullied can really mess a person up for the long term. Feeling resentment over that damage isn't grievance collecting, IMO, it's recognizing that damage has been done.

Plenty of people, including myself, have been bullied and not inflicted violence on other people. But it seems to me that so many of these school shooters have been bullied that if society wants to prevent them, it might start to think of being bullied as a contributing factor (NOT AN EXCUSE) and examine what might be done to mitigate that factor.

Thank you for sharing and I’m so sorry for what you’ve been through!

 

[Marysmith]

rbbm.
‘It was troubling. It was disturbing’: Additional piece of evidence uncovered in Oxford High School shooting investigation
''Charging this person as an adult is necessary to achieve justice and protect the public,” McDonald said. “Any other option would put all of us at risk of this person because they could be released and still a threat.”

McDonald said the evidence indicates the shooting was “not just an impulsive act.” She said there is “a mountain of digital evidence” and it has been reviewed. She said the evidence indicates the shooting was planned well before it happened.
McDonald also said prosecutors are considering charges against both of Crumbley’s parents, and a decision is expected swiftly.''

“There is an additional piece of evidence that hasn’t been released yet, but I can assure you it was troubling. It was disturbing and unfortunately he was allowed to go back to class,” McDonald said.

Ugh… maybe the credible threat of violence then? That seemed like several people knew about?

 

[abeaman02]

There have been continued threats to a number of schools in the area. Enough that local districts are closed down tomorrow. I attached the letter from our school below. We are right next to Oxford, but I heard 4 other districts are closing also. Since It is not being stated what the threats are on MSM. I don't think I can say what they are but obviously they must feel they're somewhat credible

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am disturbed by all the comments bashing the parents for what they did wrong (except for not securing the gun) that helped perpetuate this, with absolutely no evidence I've seen.

I thought this was a victim-friendly forum.

The parents have to go to bed tonight knowing that their son took the lives of four people. Unless it comes out that they encouraged him to do so, I will consider them victims as well, per WS rules.

 

[Cryptic]

Possibly is parents?

I agree.

Fwiw.
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1185914/
''Heroes
Chapter Four 'I Am Become Death'

• ''Having time-traveled four years in the future, the future Peter shows his younger counterpart that people have access to drugs that give them various super powers and some of them will destroy the world. Past Peter is forced to run from the dark and evil future versions of Claire, Daphne, and Knox, all of whom work as killers for government agencies to track him down.''

Hmmm.... that possibly could be the source of the quote:

- TV series theme could be interesting to a HS student.
- Series was popular at one time.

Then again:

- The episode aired 13 years ago- when the shooter was 3 years old. The series ended ten years ago (age 6)
- The citation is only linked to a single episode and does not appear to be say, a recurring quote on the series.

I think the odds of a HS student going through episode titles- (and then remembering one of them) for what for him would be an ancient television series is probably about the same as him being a voracious reader of atomic weapons development.

In short, your idea is just as valid and just as possible as mine. It should be checked out as well.

 

[SuziQ]

Has there been any concrete proof reported that he was bullied?

A student said yes, LE and school say no.

 

[SuziQ]

I am disturbed by all the comments bashing the parents for what they did wrong (except for not securing the gun) that helped perpetuate this, with absolutely no evidence I've seen.

I thought this was a victim-friendly forum.

The parents have to go to bed tonight knowing that their son took the lives of four people. Unless it comes out that they encouraged him to do so, I will consider them victims as well, per WS rules.

The Prosecutor is weighing charges against them for a reason. Imo, the victims are the children their son shot.

Moo.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

I am so tired. I should have gone to bed much earlier.

I see the parents being bashed all over the internet and it doesn't seem fair to me.

Unless it comes out that they encouraged him to go to that school and shoot it up, I will give them the benefit of the doubt that they were doing the best they knew how as parents, as most parents do.

Some parents know better than others.

 

[IzzyBlanche]

The Prosecutor is weighing charges against them for a reason. Imo, the victims are the children their son shot.

Moo.

As I understand it, the charges are for not securing a gun?

Agreed, the victims are most definitely the shooting victims. As far as I understand it though, by the forum rules the parents are also considered victims until LE names them as complicit in the crime.

Now maybe not securing a gun rises to that level. I don't know.

I'm just not willing to judge the parents out of the gate until more is known.

 

[Kaley Smith]

Parents of Oxford shooting suspect may face charges, says prosecutor

''Oakland County prosecutor Karen McDonald on Wednesday said she is considering bringing charges against the parents of Ethan Crumbley, the suspect in the Oxford High School shooting.

On Wednesday, officials announced that Crumbley will face numerous charges including one count of terrorism causing death, four counts of first degree murder and seven counts of assault with intent to murder.

Oakland County Sheriff Michael Bouchard confirmed on Wednesday that the gun Crumbley is believed to have used to carry out the attack was bought by his father on Black Friday.

"We know that owning a gun means securing it properly and locking it and keeping the ammunition separate and not allowing access to other individuals, particularly minors," McDonald said, according to the Detroit Free Press. "We have to hold individuals accountable who don't do that."

Bouchard said that potential criminal charges against Crumbley's parents are still being determined.

Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel (D) explained to the Free Press that Michigan state laws provide a degree of accountability for adults who own guns that were used by a minor to commit a crime.

• Michigan school shooting suspect 'came out with the intent to kill,'...
• 15-year-old Michigan school shooting suspect to be charged as an adult

"Theoretically, if you had a case where you had a teenager who had demonstrated some sort of instability, mentally or suicidal or homicidal thoughts or actions, or anything to that extent, and in addition to that you still allowed this child to have unfettered access to a weapon, then theoretically I don't think it would be a huge stretch to charge the parents with involuntary manslaughter under those circumstances," said Nessel.

According to the Free Press, Nessel stressed that this hypothetical situation does not specifically apply to the Oxford school shooting, but could represent a possible charge.

The Washington Post noted that Michigan state law does not require gun owners to lock up their weapons or keep them away from children. Such measures are rarely enforced in states that have child access laws.''