GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #1

[Jacie Estes]

I truly am sorry for her loss as I know she didn't see this coming,but I do think she was wrong in allowing this man to abuse her child.
And it was abuse.Youth or the way one grew up has nothing to do with it.
People have outside sources to information on proper methods in the correction of children.

IMO

Those in domestic and/or intimate violence situations can't always function at the level those not in that situation can. Abused women, and men for that matter, have different 'filters' when assessing situations, they can be immune to danger signals that someone not in that situation would readily identify and react to. We don't know the complete dynamics of this case yet.

 

[katydid23]

There were reportedly people who warned her about AB. And then she admits to seeing the abuse happening firsthand. So she could have asked for help from friends and family to watch Carnel at night. Her Aunt lived right next door, and she had a sister in town as well.

What angers me is the way she spoke on NG, She said WEare training Carnel. That means she was including herself in the punishment plans.

When NG asked if she was concerned about having a felon watching her child, she said
" He said he LOVED ME."


In the few months Bennett was in the four year old's life, "we" were making him into a "grown man".

Sorry, but she was complicit as far as I can see. She knew full well what was happening. She saw her baby being lifted up by his neck and then dropped to the floor,
and that was okay with her. That was a training program that she was in full agreement with.

I am not saying she didn't love her boy. But apparently her first priority was that her boyfriend LOVED HER and then the second priority was that they trained this child to clean his room and to obey them, by using extreme corporal punishment.

I am not going to defend her anymore. She gave her son over to this monster and she KNEW he was being beaten and mistreated for weeks.

 

[kimlynn]

Those in domestic and/or intimate violence situations can't always function at the level those not in that situation can. Abused women, and men for that matter, have different 'filters' when assessing situations, they can be immune to danger signals that someone not in that situation would readily identify and react to. We don't know the complete dynamics of this case yet.

Do we know that she was in an abusive relationship, aside from what we know now which is the ultimate abuse....the death of her son.
I still can't see being able to filter out abuse to a small child,but I suppose it could happen in some situations with long term abuse.
Is it known how long she was in this relationship? I did some speed reading and may have missed that info.

IMO

 

[katydid23]

Those in domestic and/or intimate violence situations can't always function at the level those not in that situation can. Abused women, and men for that matter, have different 'filters' when assessing situations, they can be immune to danger signals that someone not in that situation would readily identify and react to. We don't know the complete dynamics of this case yet.

I think we are doing battered women a disservice by including this woman in the description. She had much more than danger 'signals' in this case.

She SAW her 4 yr old being assaulted, she heard her bf admit proudly the assaults, and she even included herself in taking part by claiming that "WE are training him to be a man."

She clearly KNEW her son was being physically and emotionally battered.She had been warned by many family members and friends of the felons past behavior as well. I will not defend her decision to allow her violent boyfriend to be her son's caregiver anymore. That is an insult to Carnel's memory in my opinion. He went to his mom and asked for help. And she saw with her own eyes the violence he was subject to. He deserved so much more than that and I will not give her a pass because she could not 'process' the violence she saw.

 

[katydid23]

What out side sources did she have? Who could protect her and her child if she spoke against him or tried to throw him out? Maybe the reason she got the job was to save money and get away.

Her great aunt, who raised her as a young child, lived right next door. He sister lived close by, and her cousin is the tribal chief. So imo, she had plenty of outside help.

If she was saving up to get away then she should have had her aunt or sister watch her baby at night.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Do we know that she was in an abusive relationship, aside from what we know now which is the ultimate abuse....the death of her son.
I still can't see being able to filter out abuse to a small child,but I suppose it could happen in some situations with long term abuse.
Is it known how long she was in this relationship? I did some speed reading and may have missed that info.

IMO

Abuse is not just physical. It is not a matter of a length of time but rather the impact of the domination of one partner by the other.

 

[Cubby]

Did the construction workers immediately report they saw a fire burning thru the chimney and smelled flesh the day Carnel went missing? Also, the neighbor who said she smelled barbq like smells that day? Wasn't it odd the fireplace was burning as hot as it was?

Link?

Where has it been said a fireplace was burning or being used the day of Carnel's disappearance. Has there been anything indicating an indoor fireplace was being used? Or is this an outdoor fireplace?

 

[Cubby]

I think it's okay to have anger toward the killer as well as question the actions (or in this case) lack of action of the parent of the child.
I'm aware that she is a victim as well due to the loss of her son.

IMO

My point was since when do we bash and attack victims of domestic violence? For all we know Jaimee is lucky to be alive herself. She could very easily have been a victim as well as her son.

I think we should be cautious as to the judgements tossed out so easily. There has been very little information released to the public, and only one person charged with abusing/assaulting this child.


By the grace of God there go any one of us. I'd hate to be a victim of DV scared to reach out. All one would have to do is read WS, see the bashing in this thread and one might go right back to self isolation.

We are here to be VICTIM FRIENDLY and help. Let's please do that, so in the future other young mothers are not finding themselves in the same situation as Jaimee, likely afraid to reach out and ask for help, or reach out and tell someone something is wrong.

 

[kimlynn]

Abuse is not just physical. It is not a matter of a length of time but rather the impact of the domination of one partner by the other.

I'm aware that abuse comes in many forms.In most relationships you will have one more dominant than the other. I still don't see being so impacted by the stronger partner to the point you could "filter out" the abuse when it comes to your child.I have seen this in long term relationships though,so that was why I asked how long she had been in this relationship.
At any rate,we really don't know yet what kind of relationship they had aside from her allowing him to strike her child.

IMO

 

[Jacie Estes]

I think we are doing battered women a disservice by including this woman in the description. She had much more than danger 'signals' in this case.

She SAW her 4 yr old being assaulted, she heard her bf admit proudly the assaults, and she even included herself in taking part by claiming that "WE are training him to be a man."

She clearly KNEW her son was being physically and emotionally battered.She had been warned by many family members and friends of the felons as well. I will not defend her decision to allow her violent boyfriend to be her son's caregiver anymore. That is an insult to Carnel's memory in my opinion. He went to his mom and asked for help. And she saw with her own eyes the violence he was subject to. He deserved so much more than that and I will not give her a pass because she could not 'process' the violence she saw.

Not a disservice at all, abuse is not just physical, it can be emotional, as well. I do think that there is a Stockholm Syndrome scenario here. The incident that spurred the recognition of SS occurred over a 5 day period, Jaimee was with this guy enough of a time period to have SS a possibility. He was clearly controlling and she followed along, this does not make her mother of the year but I believe the circumstances are such that she could not react the way that others would or the way others wish she had reacted. It is not as much about the seeing as it is the processing of the actions of AB. No matter how much she may have been warned by anyone in the periphery, if she wasn't processing the information appropriately those warnings wouldn't matter.

All of this is, of course, just my opinion. Until I read that she was not affected, did not have a diminished capacity, because of her experience in the relationship then I won't judge her. You have to see the effects of abuse on someone who has been abused, in any form, to understand her functioning level. IMHO

She is a woman who has lost a child, I have sympathy and compassion for her.

Stockholm syndrome - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[cluciano63]

Do we know she was abused?

In any event, the women I know who have been in abusive situations became ever more careful and protective of their children, even if they had trouble getting out of the relationship.

The fact remains, she witnessed him abusing her child and then left this child alone with him, to be terrorized for God knows how long before being murdered, IMO. I am having trouble getting past that. If it is true that she initially said she did not want or love Carnel when he was born, as I have read, I only wish someone with authority had listened and taken her seriously at the time. He'd be alive.

 

[kimlynn]

My point was since when do we bash and attack victims of domestic violence? For all we know Jaimee is lucky to be alive herself. She could very easily have been a victim as well as her son.

I think we should be cautious as to the judgements tossed out so easily. There has been very little information released to the public, and only one person charged with abusing/assaulting this child.


By the grace of God there go any one of us. I'd hate to be a victim of DV scared to reach out. All one would have to do is read WS, see the bashing in this thread and one might go right back to self isolation.

We are here to be VICTIM FRIENDLY and help. Let's please do that, so in the future other young mothers are not finding themselves in the same situation as Jaimee, likely afraid to reach out and ask for help, or reach out and tell someone something is wrong.

As I posted earlier...I am sorry as she has suffered a great loss,and I'm sure she never saw the death of her son as an end result of this abuse.She is a victim of this man as well.No doubt about that in my mind.
I think it is just very difficult to read how anyone,much less a mother,could sit by as a witness to her child being treated like this.I know I couldn't and that doesn't mean I'm perfect and haven't made mistakes.We all do....some are just more costly than others.
She didn't protect this child and for that I will make a judgment.

IMO

 

[Jacie Estes]

I think you are right. There are more horror stories to come. After hearing what the construction workers sid I don't doubt Carnel died on Wednesday. They said they didn't see him Thursday. On Nancy Grace Jaimee contradicted herself several times. For one, she said he was wearing something different than the angry bird etc. Then she said she called home during her shift and the bf said the Carnel was missing. Finally, how could Bennett bury Carnel under the house with no one seeing him? I mean, I have been by both the front and back of the house and there are neighbors all around and it is a wide open field as well. Nothing is obstructing the view.

The 'vine' can work overtime, it is separating fact from gossip that will tell the true story.

 

[ToosieJoie33]

He said it was coming from a chimney so I assume inside the house.

http://www.abc12.com/story/18915753...s-into-death-of-4-year-old-carnel-chamberlain

 

[Cubby]

As I posted earlier...I am sorry as she has suffered a great loss,and I'm sure she never saw the death of her son as an end result of this abuse.She is a victim of this man as well.No doubt about that in my mind.
I think it is just very difficult to read how anyone,much less a mother,could sit by as a witness to her child being treated like this.I know I couldn't and that doesn't mean I'm perfect and haven't made mistakes.We all do....some are just more costly than others.
She didn't protect this child and for that I will make a judgment.

IMO

So we should blame all victims? Their perps bare no responsibility?

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm glad there were not two murder victims here, when there very easily could have been. I'm terribly saddened to see this young mother and her son, victims of abuse, and unable to reach out for help. More young mothers will continue to be abused. More children will die when we blame them, rather than their abuser. Anthony Bennett, no one else, is responsible for the death of Carnel Chamberlain. I will hold Anthony responsible for Anthony's actions. Only Anthony is responsible for his actions, no one else, including Jaimee, is responsible for AB's actions.

 

[Mimiof8]

He said it was coming from a chimney so I assume inside the house.

http://www.abc12.com/story/18915753...s-into-death-of-4-year-old-carnel-chamberlain

I can't find a chimney mentioned in this article.

 

[Cubby]

He said it was coming from a chimney so I assume inside the house.

http://www.abc12.com/story/18915753...s-into-death-of-4-year-old-carnel-chamberlain

I read the article. I see nothing mentioned about the chimney in the article at the above link.

If it was in one of the video's, I have no sound, so I'd need someone to transcribe, or post what time the comment was made on the video so someone can transcribe that portion.

 

[Jacie Estes]

So we should blame all victims? Their perps bare no responsibility?

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm glad there were not two murder victims here, when their very easily could have been. I'm terribly saddened to see this young mother and her son, victims of abuse, and unable to reach out for help. More young mothers will continue to be abused. More children will die when we blame them, rather than their abuser. Anthony Bennett, no one else, is responsible for the death of Carnel Chamberlain. I will hold Anthony responsible for Anthony's actions. Only Anthony is responsible for his actions, no one else, including Jaimee is responsible for AB's actions.

Agreed, he is the abuser and he is the one who, at this time, is an alleged murderer though I don't believe he has yet been charged/arraigned with that charge.

 

[kimlynn]

So we should blame all victims? Their perps bare no responsibility?

We'll have to agree to disagree then. I'm glad there were not two murder victims here, when their very easily could have been. I'm terribly saddened to see this young mother and her son, victims of abuse, and unable to reach out for help. More young mothers will continue to be abused. More children will die when we blame them, rather than their abuser. Anthony Bennett, no one else, is responsible for the death of Carnel Chamberlain. I will hold Anthony responsible for Anthony's actions. Only Anthony is responsible for his actions, no one else, including Jaimee is responsible for AB's actions.

I'll just *say* this and then we can agree to disagree.She is the victim in that her son was killed by this man. Carnel is also a victim because he was left in the care of an abusive person.The person that left him in the care of an abuser...his mother.
Both are victims of this man.
I notice that you fail to address the responsibility to the safety of Carnel by his mother.

IMO

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

ya know...i get the frustration with this mom. really, i do.

but imo, it's disturbing to see so many pile on with the accusations regarding ''stupid'' women, ''reckless'' women, the terrible mothers who don't protect their children etc.....without seeing anyone, once, get to the heart of the matter, here.

the heart of the matter in what i agree seems to be an epidemic of children dying at the hands of the SO of their mothers is this: what kind of a society have we become when so many of our young women lack the slightest bit of self-worth? where and why and how did so many daughters grow up to believe that they were a failure without a man, and that any man would do? why? why?

while this is not the case all the time, i believe this mother loved her child and had she understood what sort of devil she was sleeping with, she never would have done so. i heard that her brother introduced the two of them. likely, she trusted him even more because of this. when she claimed "he said he loved me,'' personally, my heart broke more for this young woman. because the truth is, i would bet all of you that she absolutely believed it. yes, it clouded her judgment. yes, it cost her her beautiful son.

i don't think any criminal charge is warranted, nor do i think it would help. she has lost her child. now, what i want to know is....who is going to teach this young woman that real love doesn't leave bruises on child or mother, real love doesn't invoke fear, and that she deserves better than a monster who merely poses as a man from time to time.

i wonder what her relationship with her father was like.

poor carnell. his eyes are haunting. my heart breaks.

IMO this is the best thing that has been posted in this thread. Thank you for your insightful words.