GUILTY MI - Carnel Chamberlain, 4, Mount Pleasant, 21 June 2012 #2

[JusticeforCarnel]

None of us are in JC's shoes. MSM has reported her life was threatened. The FBI or LE has stated there are witnesses to this life threatening abuse.

Every person who chooses to engage in bashing the mother helps support the defendent Anthony Bennett's case. It does not help Carnel in any way shape or form. It helps Anthony and his attorney and it will continue to do so because they will play on that just like Jose Baez did with public opinion/discussion to acquit his client.

I'm sure Anthony Bennett and his defense attorney are grateful for the negative comments regarding mom as they will benefit no one but AB and put a few bucks in his atty's pocket.

Going to have to disagree. Talking about JC isn't going to get Anthony Bennett any less time. He will still (god willing) be charged with murder because it will be clear without a reasonable doubt that he did in fact murder this baby boy. Casey Anthony was not deemed "innocent" because of public opinion she was "innocent" because there was not 100% concrete evidence that she did do it. I don't think the feds or anthonys lawyer give a crap about what people are saying about Jaimee on WS. I bet she will get charged with child endangerment/ neglect as she should and that will be that.

Stop defending Jaimee. This should be about defending Carnel. Jaimee didn't defend him. so why defend her?

Also though I may not be in Jaimees shoes I DO KNOW HER. I think I have a right to have whatever opinion I want about her because it is not biased it is real life.

 

[tlcya]

Going to have to disagree. Talking about JC isn't going to get Anthony Bennett any less time. He will still (god willing) be charged with murder because it will be clear without a reasonable doubt that he did in fact murder her. Casey Anthony was not deemed "innocent" because of public opinion she was "innocent" because there was not 100% concrete evidence that she did do it. I don't think the feds or anthonys lawyer give a crap about what people are saying about Jaimee on WS. I bet she will get charged with child endangerment/ neglect as she should and that will be that.

Stop defending Jaimee. This should be about defending Carnel.

Carnel is beyond defending sadly. This is about remembering, honoring and awaiting JUSTICE for Carnel. Unfortunately, justice has a differing appearance for each of us. And that is okay.

Agreeing to disagree is sometimes the best we can do.

As for defending JC, until LE charges her or says she is a suspect/person of interest we are bound by TOS not to bash what is (for now) considered a victim. I realize this is very hard for those who wish to see JC charged to stomach, but that is what you have signed on for.

 

[Cubby]

Going to have to disagree. Talking about JC isn't going to get Anthony Bennett any less time. He will still (god willing) be charged with murder because it will be clear without a reasonable doubt that he did in fact murder this baby boy. Casey Anthony was not deemed "innocent" because of public opinion she was "innocent" because there was not 100% concrete evidence that she did do it. I don't think the feds or anthonys lawyer give a crap about what people are saying about Jaimee on WS. I bet she will get charged with child endangerment/ neglect as she should and that will be that.

Stop defending Jaimee. This should be about defending Carnel. Jaimee didn't defend him. so why defend her?

Also though I may not be in Jaimees shoes I DO KNOW HER. I think I have a right to have whatever opinion I want about her because it is not biased it is real life.

I am not defending Jaimee. I am commenting on how Jose Baez was able to create reasonable doubt for his client via much of the online discussion and how the online discussion in this case can very easily benefit the only person charged with abusing Carnel, Anthony Bennett.

No one has been charged with murdering Carnel , so it is quite a leap to make comments on how much time anyone will do for a murder for which no one has yet been charged. For all we know at this point, there may never be murder charges in this case. Let's not put the cart before the horse until murder charges are filed.

 

[Knox]

Bumping Beach's Mod Ruling on the Subject of JC.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by beach
Mod note:

Following up here. :loser:

2 players are sleuthable at this time -

the perp, Anthony Bennett, and

the bio mom, Jaimee Chamberlain.


A word regarding WS "victim-friendly" policy -

We often see this misinterpreted. Understandable, the "rules" can get a bit confusing so I'm going to take this opportunity to try to add a little clarity. As most of you who have posted here for any length of time at all realize by now that there are no black & white, across the board rules, 'one size fits all' of what we permit or who is considered a "victim" in each case. Cases differ on nearly every level - we have to consider the circumstances of each one separately and decide accordingly. Websleuths, first and foremost, is victim-friendly toward the actual victim - in this case, Carnel Chamberlain.

Jaimee has admitted that she was aware of the abuse of Carnel by AB, however she chose to never report it, she obviously (at the very least) minimized the danger and showed a complete lack of responsibility by allowing AB to still keep Carnel when she was not there to protect him. Whether she regrets it now is another matter. And, in the eyes of WS, it really doesn't matter whether she regrets it or not. The fact remains that she is culpable on some level for not protecting Carnel when he was in her care. Therefore, she is sleuthable.

for emphasis

Bumping for clarity regarding how WS views Jaimee Chamberlain. Even the family spokesman voiced their regret that it was unfortunate that Jaimee did not take action.

It is what it is, unfortunately. Just because someone is not yet charged with a crime does not mean it didn't happen. (e.g., neglect, endangerment) That is a choice the State Prosecutor makes. Often crimes happen that go uncharged.
_________________

 

[JusticeforCarnel]

I am not defending Jaimee. I am commenting on how Jose Baez was able to create reasonable doubt for his client via much of the online discussion and how the online discussion in this case can very easily benefit the only person charged with abusing Carnel, Anthony Bennett.

No one has been charged with murdering Carnel , so it is quite a leap to make comments on how much time anyone will do for a murder for which no one has yet been charged. For all we know at this point, there may never be murder charges in this case. Let's not put the cart before the horse until murder charges are filed.

I 100% garuntee there will be murder charges filed against AB. They are getting closer and closer by the day they just need to do it perfectly. The reason Casey Anthonys cause got thrown out was because the media (nancy grace) made it such a hype that they charged murder RIGHT AWAY. that was their wrong move. They should have started like they did with AB and charged her for lesser crimes that there was in fact hard evidence for.

<modsnip>

 

[SheWhoMustNotBeNamed]

We can debate til the end of time the varying levels of moral and/or legal culpability of anyone who knew or suspected Carnel was in danger/being abused. Then we can argue ad infinitim over which parties should have know or suspected. None of it accomplishes chit. We all have our opinions and are pretty strong in them. That is not going to change.

Respectfully snipped the above post. Thank you, tlcox.

Bottom line here, everyone, is that this thread needs to start focusing on Carnel, and the man who has been arrested in this case, Anthony Bennett. We could be in here for years discussing/arguing about his mother's or anyone else's responsibility. But the fact remains, she has not been charged. So, for the time being, MOVE ON. Arguing about whether or not she *should be* charged accomplishes what, exactly, for Carnel?

We're not saying you can't discuss her. As Beach's post regarding Jaimee was just bumped, you can see the guidelines there. But please, for the love of all that is good in the world, the arguing needs to stop.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Cubby this is the truth!!! Thank You for putting it out there, I really wish all the negitive comments would just stop. We are here for Carnell not to judge others.

It isn't for me to judge JC; Creator is the one to do so. I respect Kevin Chamberlain's opinion on JC. He is her family, he is being Leader in his actions. One way or another, Justice will be served. When we walk over, it isn't a free pass, there are questions to be answered. We aren't the ones to ask the questions, we only have to answer them.

Carnel will have Justive, on this side or the other. Anthony Bennett has much to answer for, and he WILL answer for his murderous actions. Carnel is too precious, in Creator's eyes, to not have a purpose. He will make a difference through Carnel's HOPE for Tomorrow.

I pray for Justice for Carnel and for RieLee.

 

[Knox]

I love this picture, wish I could actually put it in the post, but not sure if I can.
It's of Carnel and his Grandpa Tommy, who has also passed on.

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?...2604152.113076.459362990740569&type=1&theater

 

[Knox]

Photo Credit; Hope for Carnel Facebook Page.
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Carnels-Hope-For-Tomorrow/459362990740569

 

[FrayedKnot]

It isn't for me to judge JC; Creator is the one to do so. I respect Kevin Chamberlain's opinion on JC. He is her family, he is being Leader in his actions. One way or another, Justice will be served. When we walk over, it isn't a free pass, there are questions to be answered. We aren't the ones to ask the questions, we only have to answer them.

Carnel will have Justive, on this side or the other. Anthony Bennett has much to answer for, and he WILL answer for his murderous actions. Carnel is too precious, in Creator's eyes, to not have a purpose. He will make a difference through Carnel's HOPE for Tomorrow.

I pray for Justice for Carnel and for RieLee.

Respectfully, and sincerely, that belief then would extend to AB. If it is not our place to judge, then AB should be set free to face his divine judgement.

I don't think AB had been charged with Carnel's murder any more than JC has. So why are we so comfortable calling him Carnel's killer?

I just think of all of the SS officers who were only following orders in concentration camps. Are they any less evil than the monsters who loaded the showers with gas or whose bullets riddled the bodies of emaciated Jews?

History and human decency has deemed that those who stood by while evil was carried out are, in truth, covered with the blood of the victims.

That is not my opinion, that is history and tragic fact.

 

[Jacie Estes]

Respectfully, and sincerely, that belief then would extend to AB. If it is not our place to judge, then AB should be set free to face his divine judgement.

I don't think AB had been charged with Carnel's murder any more than JC has. So why are we so comfortable calling him Carnel's killer?

I just think of all of the SS officers who were only following orders in concentration camps. Are they any less evil than the monsters who loaded the showers with gas or whose bullets riddled the bodies of emaciated Jews?

History and human decency has deemed that those who stood by while evil was carried out are, in truth, covered with the blood of the victims.

That is not my opinion, that is history and tragic fact.

I am quite familiar with Niemöller, I've quoted him many times in thesis and writing.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.
Martin Niemöller

AB is the one in jail, under Federal charges. There is a reason he is being held on a Federal level, when forensics is in then other charges will be placed against him. IF the forensics were not enough to sustain the murder charge then he will be charged with the assault charges in place. IF he has 2 other FEDERAL charges then, if the tribe is agreeable, he can be charged under the Federal 3 Strike Law. If he sits in jail a year or the rest of his life or does get the DP, again dependant on the variables that exist with the 3 Strikes Law, he still, after he takes his last breath, has a much higher power to answer to. IMHO This is Indian teachings, as well as in organized religions.

Does anyone think that Carnel would want hatred and judgement, in this life, in his name? He is in a better place, as is said, he knows all the secrets now.

Judgement will come for Carnel by the court system, not by rez retaliation or anything said on a forum. His mother may well face charges for not reporting abuse. Carnel's death will be answered for, in many ways and on many levels, most of them unseen.

 

[Jacie Estes]

For Carnel, for healing:


Songs of the Journey: Four Songs of the Anishinaabe - YouTube

 

[Knox]

"After a lengthy discussion with our liaison with the FBI... we are probably looking at one to three months before we can even think about a funeral!" family spokesman Kevin Chamberlain wrote about 7 p.m. Monday on the family's Facebook page, Carnel's Hope for Tomorrow.

"I cannot divulge too much info...you have to trust me but how it was explained makes perfect sense why it has to be that long."
http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/07/family_of_carnel_chamberlain_m.html

Carnel was found on June 29th. That makes the 1-3 month window of forensic completion, anywhere from July 30th to September 28th (ended periods on a business day not a weekend).

I'm patient and can wait for the results of those tests. Bennett isn't going anywhere, matter of fact I bet he is running everything through his head. Wondering what the Feds are going to find, what he will charged with. Also probably thinking about how he will be treated in prison. He's surely savy as to how child killers/abusers are treated. I hope it's worse than he imagines.

 

[Cubby]

Sadly, all that 1-3 months tells me is when it is believed Carnel's remains will be turned over to his family for burial. It means nothing, imo, with regards to if or when murder charges might be filed in this case.

Because both JC and AB were at the home until the time she left for work, the biggest hurdle, imo, is going to be proving beyond a reasonable doubt whether or not Carnel was alive and well when his mother left for work.

We've already seen quite a few people publicly comment they don't believe the accuracy of the neighbors recollection of seeing Carnel the afternoon he 'disappeared'. The defense will surely capitalize on that... that will be HUGE for the defense and a hurdle for the prosecution to overcome any reasonable doubt.

If and when murder charges are filed.... I've had my heart broken, in the usual Cub fan kind of way, when I am certain charges are going to be filed and are not. Mariha Trenice Smith's case being one... I'm going to wait until the fat lady sings so to speak in this case and murder charges are actually filed. lease:

 

[Knox]

Sorry Cubby, I disagree. It means much more ...

"It flipping sucks but it must be done in order to enact justice!" Chamberlain wrote. "Please... be strong as we will try to as well. No rumors... just trust me... it's being done right!"http://www.mlive.com/news/saginaw/index.ssf/2012/07/family_of_carnel_chamberlain_m.html

Kevin must have been given some idea of what the process would be and how long it would take. Even if you look at this case with a purely circumstantial lens, it's a win-win.

• Anthony Bennett was alone with Carnel.
• Carnel did not put his own body in a woodstove and burn himself.
• Carnel did not bury his own body under his own porch.

I have faith that charges will be files and a conviction gained. But I would like to discuss the difference between convictions gained in Federal Court vs. State Courts. Stat's anyone?

 

[nao]

Right and wrong, who makes those rules, what are the rules?
My husband who was first nation, used to put cigarettes out on me, he told me it proved i loved him, i accepted this as truth. I remember a baby being put in a hamock, given a pill, and we took off to the city for a few days, there was also a couple of short little childs in the home they were just left there. I remember going to a party in a partially built apartment block(as in no power and such), there was 3 little ones in a wooden crib, they were yowling, i remember i used to stay at this abandoned house, there was a kid, maybe 14 had to walk with a stick, his little brother was with him, they went to school every day, he really tried. But people don't like homeless, the house was burnt down. I always wonder if life was kind to him, but i doubt it.
Looking back, none of us knew any better, there was no malice.

 

[Cubby]

Right and wrong, who makes those rules, what are the rules?
My husband who was first nation, used to put cigarettes out on me, he told me it proved i loved him, i accepted this as truth. I remember a baby being put in a hamock, given a pill, and we took off to the city for a few days, there was also a couple of short little childs in the home they were just left there. I remember going to a party in a partially built apartment block(as in no power and such), there was 3 little ones in a wooden crib, they were yowling, i remember i used to stay at this abandoned house, there was a kid, maybe 14 had to walk with a stick, his little brother was with him, they went to school every day, he really tried. But people don't like homeless, the house was burnt down. I always wonder if life was kind to him, but i doubt it.
Looking back, none of us knew any better, there was no malice.

Thank you, nao. your post brought tears to my eyes. BBM. I think I've tried to express this until I'm blue in the face many times. Not just here at WS, but in everyday life. I will never understand the automatic assumption malice exists 100% of the time.

That's another topic though.

Praying the wheels of justice move quickly in this case.

 

[Woodland]

Seems to me there is a great divide between JC's culpability vs non-culpability. Some call that an argument that should stop - this is the free part of the world so do not understand why the so-called argument should stop. There was violence in this case that was not addressed before Carnel died a violent death. One or more people have to be held accountable for that.

There is a new thread on WS with advice for single parents on what to watch out for when meeting a new potential partner - from many posters on WS - good, practical advice from those that have lived through violence and those that have not. A good cross perspective imo. Maybe that should be linked here.

This is not a rez thing, it's not a 'hood thing, it's not a suburban soccer mom thing, it's a safe child thing. No?

 

[beach]

Mod Warning

If I see Jaimee Chamberlain's NON-ACTIONS defended one. more. time. in this thread, I am going to blow a gasket.

This is not the "Defend Jaimee" thread - the VICTIM here is a defenseless, precious 4 year old boy. His name is CARNEL. It is a FACT that his mother did not protect him. PERIOD.


He had a safe place to stay - his grandmother's home. However, he was removed from that safe place.


I have been out of town for the past 4 days and I am so angry at what this thread has turned into, I am going to stop talking now. I will say more when I have calmed down.


Those of you who feel strongly about defending Jaimee's NON-actions will be directed to another area to talk about it tomorrow. Until then, not one. more. word about defending or excusing Jaimee on CARNEL'S thread.

*this post lands at random*

 

[Cubby]

Sorry Cubby, I disagree. It means much more ...



Kevin must have been given some idea of what the process would be and how long it would take. Even if you look at this case with a purely circumstantial lens, it's a win-win.

• Anthony Bennett was alone with Carnel.
• Carnel did not put his own body in a woodstove and burn himself.
• Carnel did not bury his own body under his own porch.

I have faith that charges will be files and a conviction gained. But I would like to discuss the difference between convictions gained in Federal Court vs. State Courts. Stat's anyone?

I'm not trying or wishing to argue with you so to speak Knox. After FCA was acquitted, I try to look at and discuss cases without handing the defense strategy on a platter so to speak. That imo, is what Baez gained from all the online discussion regarding Caylee's case.

Now, I'm trying to look at this from a different perspective and show the prosecution all the area's the defense might poke holes. (versus the opposite or strength in the prosecutions case in the pre caylee days, I hope that makes sense.)

With regards to the circumstantial info you presented. Very early on I recall MSM indicating multiple people were coming in and out of the home. That led me to believe AB likely had multiple people coming in and out of the home while JC was at work. Who else was there? Did anyone else live there or have legal residency there? Who may have dropped by? Did AB set someone up to drop by as a means to try and establish an alibi?

Remember, all the defense needs is to create reasonable doubt.

Then on the other hand, I'm thinking back to Mya Lyons case. It wasn't months before her father was charged. It was 2.5 years before murder charges were filed. We may be in for a long wait here with regards to anyone being charged with Carnel's murder.

And after being at the Bartman game when my Cub's were 5 outs from going to the world series and lost to the Marlins, I learned never to say something is going to happen - until it happens.


There is a reason murder charges haven't been filed yet. I am almost certain William Curl was charged with murder in Antinette Keller's case before dna officially id'd her remains. So that can likely be ruled out as a possibility why charges have not yet been filed in this case. Antinette's remains were so badly burned it was many many months before her remains were officially id'd.

Off to search for actual times with regards to identification and murder charges being filed in Toni's case to compare with this case.