GUILTY MI - Chelsea Bruck, 22, Frenchtown Twp, 26 Oct 2014 #6

[rosesfromangels]

Yes, a thrill kill, and I believe a ritual kill. Halloween....

 

[Spellbound]

Welcome aboard, WildWildWest! You added a good view of Clay, much appreciated.

Squirrel, , I am in agreement with the options you suggest, but have not decided the route taken. Logic (which may not be the best way to look at this) tells me your second option of having all her clothes and discarding them later would make sense. I need to read the search warrant to recall what part of the costume was found there..... Could she have become mostly undressed in the vehicle, thus he had a lot of the clothes with him after the death? He had the need to get rid of them and knew about this abandoned site, thus was logical to him to dump them there.

I think he acted alone.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Questions for any/all who have worked out a scenario for what you believe happened to Chelsea: What time frame do you propose for the events following the Halloween party? Chelsea supposedly left the party sometime after 3:00AM. DC alleges that he and Chelsea had consensual sex that ended with her accidental death. Alone or with accomplice(s), Clay disposed of the body. Late October, still DST, so probably stayed dark until 7:30AM or so. Did all of this take place before daylight? How soon after she left the party was Chelsea dead, her body discarded where it remained until found six months later?

 

[rosesfromangels]

Within an hour

 

[jupiter16]

I am freakishly near both locations - Flat Rock where the costume pieces were found and Carleton where body was found - and there is no way any woman in sound mind and body would willingly go to either place with an acquaintance at 3:00am. The Flat Rock location is a place behind a bad reputation, nasty trailer park (no offense anyone) where I assume heroin and crack are passed around by the lowest scum individuals in the downriver/Monroe area. The Carleton location is out of the way, not off of any major roads, on a very nice street, where the neighbors watch out for each other and would call the police if the slightest sounds were heard.

I believe the body was only dumped at the Carleton location - and for that to happen - there needs to be at least 2 people involved. I grew up with a sick relative and had to lift and move this person of 100 pounds - and it felt like 200 pounds because it was "dead" weight. There is no way DC alone could carry the body to dump it....well maybe if he was cracked out on some drug or his adrenaline was kicking....I guess anything is possible.

She definitely could have been killed at the Flat Rock location. It is a secluded area where no one would hear - and it is a high crime, shady area where no one would call the police if they heard. But I believe she was assaulted and/or knocked out or just passed out from alcohol and/or drugs (possibly drugged by someone) before going to Flat Rock because I find it hard to believe she would go there willingly.

Or she could have been killed elsewhere (not Carleton) and the costume pieces dumped there afterward to throw police off or point the finger at someone else. Anything is possible and we really won't know until the trial - if he tells the truth.

I think people are jumping the gun to assume she was buried just because a "construction crew" found her. There are many types of construction that don't involve digging. Trust me - one small tidbit is told to the news, their imagination goes wild, and they go writing their own ideas of what happened. The fact is - DC is too lazy to be bothered with burying her.

I also think people are jumping the gun with the trophies that were found in DC's backpack. Based on the photos, it looks like she was not wearing jewelry that night. I've heard mention of finding a journal - think about it - why in the world would he have her journal. Lastly, I've heard police found her panties in that backpack. I think some of this came from the interviews with DC's roommate and girlfriend. How would they know those were Chelsea's panties? If panties were found, they were most likely from an ex-girlfriend..perhaps the girl all over his Facebook. The police aren't going to find the panties and announce to everyone there that they are Chelsea's panties.

I just think there is a ton of speculation going on. We are all focused on tracing her steps that night. Nobody will ever know what really happened unless DC tells the truth. I think we should be focusing on DC's accomplice(s). I think there is at least one more evil person out there who was either involved directly or at least knows what happened and helped him cover it up...perhaps the person who owned the car that transported them. And why wasn't he at the Halloween party with his then girlfriend? I can't remember the dates of the photos on his Facebook and I'm just too disgusted to look again, but I'm sure he had a girlfriend at that point.

 

[Paulas88]

I am freakishly near both locations - Flat Rock where the costume pieces were found and Carleton where body was found - and there is no way any woman in sound mind and body would willingly go to either place with an acquaintance at 3:00am. The Flat Rock location is a place behind a bad reputation, nasty trailer park (no offense anyone) where I assume heroin and crack are passed around by the lowest scum individuals in the downriver/Monroe area. The Carleton location is out of the way, not off of any major roads, on a very nice street, where the neighbors watch out for each other and would call the police if the slightest sounds were heard.

I believe the body was only dumped at the Carleton location - and for that to happen - there needs to be at least 2 people involved. I grew up with a sick relative and had to lift and move this person of 100 pounds - and it felt like 200 pounds because it was "dead" weight. There is no way DC alone could carry the body to dump it....well maybe if he was cracked out on some drug or his adrenaline was kicking....I guess anything is possible.

She definitely could have been killed at the Flat Rock location. It is a secluded area where no one would hear - and it is a high crime, shady area where no one would call the police if they heard. But I believe she was assaulted and/or knocked out or just passed out from alcohol and/or drugs (possibly drugged by someone) before going to Flat Rock because I find it hard to believe she would go there willingly.

Or she could have been killed elsewhere (not Carleton) and the costume pieces dumped there afterward to throw police off or point the finger at someone else. Anything is possible and we really won't know until the trial - if he tells the truth.

I think people are jumping the gun to assume she was buried just because a "construction crew" found her. There are many types of construction that don't involve digging. Trust me - one small tidbit is told to the news, their imagination goes wild, and they go writing their own ideas of what happened. The fact is - DC is too lazy to be bothered with burying her.

I also think people are jumping the gun with the trophies that were found in DC's backpack. Based on the photos, it looks like she was not wearing jewelry that night. I've heard mention of finding a journal - think about it - why in the world would he have her journal. Lastly, I've heard police found her panties in that backpack. I think some of this came from the interviews with DC's roommate and girlfriend. How would they know those were Chelsea's panties? If panties were found, they were most likely from an ex-girlfriend..perhaps the girl all over his Facebook. The police aren't going to find the panties and announce to everyone there that they are Chelsea's panties.

I just think there is a ton of speculation going on. We are all focused on tracing her steps that night. Nobody will ever know what really happened unless DC tells the truth. I think we should be focusing on DC's accomplice(s). I think there is at least one more evil person out there who was either involved directly or at least knows what happened and helped him cover it up...perhaps the person who owned the car that transported them. And why wasn't he at the Halloween party with his then girlfriend? I can't remember the dates of the photos on his Facebook and I'm just too disgusted to look again, but I'm sure he had a girlfriend at that point.

I wonder if DC' phone records are STILL obtainable from 10/14. If so, maybe an accomplice can be found.

 

[Skigirl]

Additionally, there are actually photos of her that she posted. They are not in the same spot, but you can 100% bet that if I found them, they have, too. Of course, I would never post a link, but the photos were definitely involving nudity and what the beast who killed her is claiming. She seemed to be a healthy, active, single female. As a long time single female, I get it and it bothers me when people act like it is taboo to talk about. To act like it is taboo suggests that she was doing something wrong. Her likes, desires, and preferences are her own and didn't hurt anyone. HIS likes and preferences that caused her life to end is where the problem exists. HIS problem and his alone. Unfortunately, when we get in front of a group of people who have all kinds of sexual judgements, it will do her a disservice. My hope is that they screen for people who don't think the only "good" or "normal" sex is sex between a married man and woman in the missionary position with the lights off. The last thing she needs on her jury is judgement. And it is also the last thing she needs here. I am perfectly ok with the sexual choices she made and I hope that attitude can be shared, so her life is not shamed.

I don't know what photos and videos people are talking about, but we know she did not consent to be murdered, so I cannot fathom how they could be related to the case, or could result in a jury concluding that her murderer somehow didn't do anything wrong.

 

[jupiter16]

I wonder if DC' phone records are STILL obtainable from 10/14. If so, maybe an accomplice can be found.

Absolutely! Who did he go to the party with? What group of friends was he hanging out with at that time? Maybe there is some truth to the story from "rootless." Maybe she was assaulted and killed in the car/truck. Maybe the Flat Rock location means nothing - he just threw the costume pieces there because he knew it was a drug hangout. But then - why wouldn't he just drive to a gas station or CVS and throw the stuff in the garbage? I know nothing about police work or investigation - but the simplest story is usually the truth.

 

[rosesfromangels]

All good points Jupiter, and I especially think your point of focusing on accomplices is a very good one.

And, who says his GF wasn't there that night? Not saying she was. Not saying she wasn't. Don't know, but it should certainly be explored.

 

[black_squirrel]

The articles below states that Chelsea was found in a grave. Initially, police wouldn't comment whether the body that had just been found (which later turned out to be Chelsea) was buried. Perhaps reporters found out more details about how the body was found later.

Chelsea Bruck went missing Oct. 26, 2014, after attending a large party in Monroe County's Frenchtown Township. Her costume — she had been dressed as the fictional character Poison Ivy — was found April 5 at an abandoned industrial site in Flat Rock and her remains were found in a grave April 24 on a wooded lot in Ash Township.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/10/26/chelsea-bruck-suspect-maybee/74616208/

When Debi Kamin heard that the body of Chelsea Bruck was recovered in a shallow grave in Ash Township last spring, it broke her heart.

http://www.monroenews.com/article/20151112/news/311129987

Chelsea's body was found in April, 2015, in a shallow grave off Briar Hill Rd. Mr. Clay was familiar with that area because he used to party in the vicinity, investigators said. He also lived about two miles away at the time.

http://www.monroenews.com/news/20160725/bruck-murder-suspect-tells-judge-he-doesnt-want-bond

 

[black_squirrel]

I don't know what photos and videos people are talking about, but we know she did not consent to be murdered, so I cannot fathom how they could be related to the case, or could result in a jury concluding that her murderer somehow didn't do anything wrong.

It will matter for the court case whether the sex (assuming there was sex) between DC and Chelsea was consensual. If it wasn't, then the murder was committed while committing another violent crime (rape). In that case it would by felony (first degree) murder instead of second degree. If the "rough sex" was consensual then the defense could argue that her death was an accident. In that case the defense would still have to explain the blunt force trauma, but they might be able to show that there is reasonable doubt. In that case DC could be convicted of manslaughter but not of second degree murder.

I wonder how strong the evidence for the cause of death being blunt force trauma. For quite some time after the body was found, the cause of death wasn't known. And then for some time after that, police wouldn't tell what the cause of death was. I am not sure how one can prove this if a body has been found 1/2 a year after death. Sure, there might have been skull fractures. But how does one now that those didn't happen after death (for example by driving heavy machinery over the shallow grave). I think forensic scientists have their work cut out for them.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

It will matter for the court case whether the sex (assuming there was sex) between DC and Chelsea was consensual. If it wasn't, then the murder was committed while committing another violent crime (rape). In that case it would by felony (first degree) murder instead of second degree. If the "rough sex" was consensual then the defense could argue that her death was an accident. In that case the defense would still have to explain the blunt force trauma, but they might be able to show that there is reasonable doubt. In that case DC could be convicted of manslaughter but not of second degree murder...

Respectfully <snipped>

Good explanation, to which I would like to add: Past and present alcohol/drug use by the defendant, as well as the night the crime was committed, is likely to be explored at length. Psych evaluation was requested to determine whether or not alcohol and/or drug use affected DC's judgment and actions. :moo:

 

[black_squirrel]

I believe the body was only dumped at the Carleton location - and for that to happen - there needs to be at least 2 people involved. I grew up with a sick relative and had to lift and move this person of 100 pounds - and it felt like 200 pounds because it was "dead" weight. There is no way DC alone could carry the body to dump it....well maybe if he was cracked out on some drug or his adrenaline was kicking....I guess anything is possible.

It would indeed be hard for one person to kill Chelsea at one location, put her body in the car, and drop it at another location. But perhaps she was killed inside the car. It would not be too hard to pull a body out of a car.

I also think people are jumping the gun with the trophies that were found in DC's backpack. Based on the photos, it looks like she was not wearing jewelry that night. I've heard mention of finding a journal - think about it - why in the world would he have her journal. Lastly, I've heard police found her panties in that backpack. I think some of this came from the interviews with DC's roommate and girlfriend. How would they know those were Chelsea's panties? If panties were found, they were most likely from an ex-girlfriend..perhaps the girl all over his Facebook. The police aren't going to find the panties and announce to everyone there that they are Chelsea's panties.

I think that is a good point. The info about the findings in the backpack comes from the roommate and the girlfriend, not from police. The roommate probably saw police searching the bag and drew her conclusions. I presume it is correct that police found the jewelry, panties and journals, but I don't think that the roommate or the GF can know that it was Chelsea's. Police and forensic scientists would have to investigate to determine if it is Chelsea's. Now DC is a thief, that we know. He may have stolen these items from women.

And why wasn't he at the Halloween party with his then girlfriend? I can't remember the dates of the photos on his Facebook and I'm just too disgusted to look again, but I'm sure he had a girlfriend at that point.

I am not sure if he had a GF at that time, but he may have had one (I posted on this a few days ago). The GF may have been at the party.

 

[jupiter16]

The articles below states that Chelsea was found in a grave. Initially, police wouldn't comment whether the body that had just been found (which later turned out to be Chelsea) was buried. Perhaps reporters found out more details about how the body was found later.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/local/michigan/2015/10/26/chelsea-bruck-suspect-maybee/74616208/

http://www.monroenews.com/article/20151112/news/311129987

http://www.monroenews.com/news/20160725/bruck-murder-suspect-tells-judge-he-doesnt-want-bond

I think one newspaper used the words "shallow grave" and the others followed suit. I believe they just used that wording to make it sound more dramatic (like the situation isn't already dramatic enough) and to press the fact that her body was there for six months, thus creating a grave.

If the body was not buried, I am curious - would that change anybody's opinions or beliefs on here of what happened?

 

[Skigirl]

I'm not a lawyer, but I believe that the murder could still be murder of the first degree if the jury finds that there was premeditation, and premeditation does not have to take long, so a rape isn't required (though for felony murder it would be). Still, I have to believe that juries aren't dumb and that they don't believe that a woman's past sexual behavior has any bearing on a situation like this. Seems pretty common to claim "consensual sex resulting in accidental death" and I don't think that argument usually goes over very well.

It will matter for the court case whether the sex (assuming there was sex) between DC and Chelsea was consensual. If it wasn't, then the murder was committed while committing another violent crime (rape). In that case it would by felony (first degree) murder instead of second degree. If the "rough sex" was consensual then the defense could argue that her death was an accident. In that case the defense would still have to explain the blunt force trauma, but they might be able to show that there is reasonable doubt. In that case DC could be convicted of manslaughter but not of second degree murder.

I wonder how strong the evidence for the cause of death being blunt force trauma. For quite some time after the body was found, the cause of death wasn't known. And then for some time after that, police wouldn't tell what the cause of death was. I am not sure how one can prove this if a body has been found 1/2 a year after death. Sure, there might have been skull fractures. But how does one now that those didn't happen after death (for example by driving heavy machinery over the shallow grave). I think forensic scientists have their work cut out for them.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

I think one newspaper used the words "shallow grave" and the others followed suit. I believe they just used that wording to make it sound more dramatic (like the situation isn't already dramatic enough) and to press the fact that her body was there for six months, thus creating a grave.

If the body was not buried, I am curious - would that change anybody's opinions or beliefs on here of what happened?

To me, a buried body suggests the use of shovels or other digging equipment for the express purpose of placing the deceased into the ground and covering it with the displaced dirt. "Shallow grave" suggests that little effort was made to dig and conceal the body. Decomposition of the remains and the effects of gravity naturally create a shallow grave. I tend to think that the perp(s) discarded the body in a location known to at least one of them with hopes that the remains would never be found. :moo:

 

[Skigirl]

It will matter for the court case whether the sex (assuming there was sex) between DC and Chelsea was consensual. If it wasn't, then the murder was committed while committing another violent crime (rape). In that case it would by felony (first degree) murder instead of second degree. If the "rough sex" was consensual then the defense could argue that her death was an accident. In that case the defense would still have to explain the blunt force trauma, but they might be able to show that there is reasonable doubt. In that case DC could be convicted of manslaughter but not of second degree murder.

I wonder how strong the evidence for the cause of death being blunt force trauma. For quite some time after the body was found, the cause of death wasn't known. And then for some time after that, police wouldn't tell what the cause of death was. I am not sure how one can prove this if a body has been found 1/2 a year after death. Sure, there might have been skull fractures. But how does one now that those didn't happen after death (for example by driving heavy machinery over the shallow grave). I think forensic scientists have their work cut out for them.

It is quite easy to determine whether a skull fracture has occurred concurrent with someone's death versus many months late due to the relative pliability/brittleness of the bones, without getting too graphic.

 

[Skigirl]

I think one newspaper used the words "shallow grave" and the others followed suit. I believe they just used that wording to make it sound more dramatic (like the situation isn't already dramatic enough) and to press the fact that her body was there for six months, thus creating a grave.

If the body was not buried, I am curious - would that change anybody's opinions or beliefs on here of what happened?

I tend to agree that we can take the term "shallow grave" with a grain of salt. The sheer number of sources doesn't really mean that each of them independently verified whether it was a "shallow grave" or a body simply covered over by branches, or a dip in the earth, or what-have-you. I'm sure we'll learn which one it was during the trial, and personally, that alone wouldn't have any bearing on any of the likely scenarios, in my mind.

 

[jupiter16]

To me, a buried body suggests the use of shovels or other digging equipment for the express purpose of placing the deceased into the ground and covering it with the displaced dirt. "Shallow grave" suggests that little effort was made to dig and conceal the body. Decomposition of the remains and the effects of gravity naturally create a shallow grave. I tend to think that the perp(s) discarded the body in a location known to at least one of them with hopes that the remains would never be found. :moo:

I agree with everything you said 100%.

 

[jupiter16]

All good points Jupiter, and I especially think your point of focusing on accomplices is a very good one.

And, who says his GF wasn't there that night? Not saying she was. Not saying she wasn't. Don't know, but it should certainly be explored.

You've been following this case longer than anyone I've seen on here...and you've said all along that more than one person was involved - I totally agree with you.