Found Deceased MI - Dr. Teleka Patrick, 30, Kalamazoo, 5 Dec 2013 - #14

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All this reminds me of the deaths of Jamie Clutter and her 2 young children found naked in a creek.

Prosecutor Henderson said they became disoriented because of hypothermia; the temperature outside was about 30 degrees with a wind chill of 18 degrees. All three had removed their clothing, and Henderson said an expert testified that hypothermia can bring about disorientation, causing some victims to disrobe. Investigators said there were no signs of a struggle.

http://fox59.com/news/stories/woman-two-children-found-in-new-albany-creek/#axzz2zHmJjQqc

Henderson said Jaime Clutter was known as a deeply spiritual person who dressed conservatively but said there was no evidence to suggest she had gone to the creek and disrobed as part of any religious rite.

Instead, Henderson said, evidence shows the deaths were caused by drowning, with hypothermia a contributing factor.

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/07/11/panel-finds-death-accidental/2509945/
 
Aking said:
Just jumping off from your post. I have a personal experience of how easily a drowning can occur with a mentally ill individual. About 15 years ago we had a house with a small pond in the backyard, nothing huge, your average subdivision pond found in a lot of neighborhoods. In January of that year a roofer noticed something bobbing up and down in the pond from the view of the roof he was on. Curiosity got the best of him and he discovered the object was a body. Come to find out, the body was of a lady who lived in a house across the street from our subdivision and had been missing for 3 weeks. She was mentally ill and had recently gone cold turkey off of some of her psychiatric medication. In the weeks leading up to her death she was found walking the highway in her bathrobe. She was not suicidal just completely out of reality. The police said her shoes were laying neatly next to the pond edge as if she had just slipped them off like she was at home and then just walked into the pond. She definitely could have lived if she was in her right mind because this pond was not that deep nor large in size. Again she was not suicidal, just doing risky behavior that seemed completely normal to her. I know it's not an exact case matching to Teleka but thought I would share this personal story into how easy it is for those mentally ill individuals to lose life saving techniques that most of us would normally have in the same situation.
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Thanks for this post.

One of the frustrating aspects of this case is that TP was not in a rational state of mind. While it is apparent that she was suffering from paranoid delusions, we will never know what was going through her mind, what she heard, saw or felt (remember, according to the tweets she was experiencing tactile delusions as well). There are a million different things she could have been thinking. I still contend that she ended up in the lake as a result of the mental issues. She didn't just get lost and end up there. Whether it was because she fell down while running from a hallucination or simply walked into the lake under the command of voices, we simply will never know.
And that's what makes this case even more tragic. It doesn't feel like closure because there are questions we just won't ever be able to answer. I especially feel for her family, because there wasn't anything they could do. In the comments section of one of the articles about this case, someone pointed out that if they had known about her condition, they could have gone to probate court and forced her to be examined by a psychiatrist. I think that would never have worked. First of all, TP was a psychiatrist so she would have known what to say to pass the exam. Second, we all know very well that TP was adept at hiding her mental illness. She was even able to get a doctorate and an MD while hiding it!
 
Loudmouth said:

Thanks for this post.

One of the frustrating aspects of this case is that TP was not in a rational state of mind. While it is apparent that she was suffering from paranoid delusions, we will never know what was going through her mind, what she heard, saw or felt (remember, according to the tweets she was experiencing tactile delusions as well). There are a million different things she could have been thinking. I still contend that she ended up in the lake as a result of the mental issues. She didn't just get lost and end up there. Whether it was because she fell down while running from a hallucination or simply walked into the lake under the command of voices, we simply will never know.
And that's what makes this case even more tragic. It doesn't feel like closure because there are questions we just won't ever be able to answer. I especially feel for her family, because there wasn't anything they could do. In the comments section of one of the articles about this case, someone pointed out that if they had known about her condition, they could have gone to probate court and forced her to be examined by a psychiatrist. I think that would never have worked. First of all, TP was a psychiatrist so she would have known what to say to pass the exam. Second, we all know very well that TP was adept at hiding her mental illness. She was even able to get a doctorate and an MD while hiding it!
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If she was a resident at another hospital, she might of been noticed by someone, who would of started the ball rolling.

One way or the other, she was going to do what ever she wanted to do...her x husband should of told her parents.....had a serious talk with them, about her problem-s.
 
Last fall sometime I listened to a radio interview on Fresh Air with Terry Gross with the woman who writes and draws the popular Hyperbole and a Half blog. She had put the blog on hiatus for a while because she was going through major depression, but before the hiatus she had tried to describe for her readers just what it felt like to be so depressed. In the interview, she said that she had looked around hard for a way to commit suicide that would look like an accident. What she settled on was that she would go out running on her normal route in the winter. There is a river on that route that she could wade into. She planned this all out, figuring out from the water temperature just how long it would take her to become unconscious if she just waded in and sat in the water. She thought that would be the best way because people would just assume that it was an accident.

Now she had major depression but was still able to think and plan things in a methodical way. That is very different from the psychotic state that Teleka seemed to have been in, but I wonder if that might have been part of her thought process -- cold water can be quick and relatively painless. I think Sylvia Plath attempted that method of suicide once, too, filling her pockets with rocks to weigh her down.

What doesn't make sense is the place and the timing, though. Unless she just drove until she saw a body of water she could get to, it's very strange that she ended up where she did. But it appears that she was operating by a set of mental rules that none of us can fathom because we are not part of her psychosis. People in the throes of delusions and hallucinations do things that make perfect sense to them but do not appear so to others.
 
toscaxyz said:
Last fall sometime I listened to a radio interview on Fresh Air with Terry Gross with the woman who writes and draws the popular Hyperbole and a Half blog. She had put the blog on hiatus for a while because she was going through major depression, but before the hiatus she had tried to describe for her readers just what it felt like to be so depressed. In the interview, she said that she had looked around hard for a way to commit suicide that would look like an accident. What she settled on was that she would go out running on her normal route in the winter. There is a river on that route that she could wade into. She planned this all out, figuring out from the water temperature just how long it would take her to become unconscious if she just waded in and sat in the water. She thought that would be the best way because people would just assume that it was an accident.

Now she had major depression but was still able to think and plan things in a methodical way. That is very different from the psychotic state that Teleka seemed to have been in, but I wonder if that might have been part of her thought process -- cold water can be quick and relatively painless. I think Sylvia Plath attempted that method of suicide once, too, filling her pockets with rocks to weigh her down.

What doesn't make sense is the place and the timing, though. Unless she just drove until she saw a body of water she could get to, it's very strange that she ended up where she did. But it appears that she was operating by a set of mental rules that none of us can fathom because we are not part of her psychosis. People in the throes of delusions and hallucinations do things that make perfect sense to them but do not appear so to others.
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I also find it coincidental that Teleka pulled over at a place in a totally different state where there was a small lake. It made me wonder if she was familiar with the area and knew that the lake was there.
 
I think she ended up at that spot because of her tire. Maybe she thought someone shot it? she was probably running for her life and accidentally ran or tripped and fell into the lake.
 
KRIME KING said:
If she was a resident at another hospital, she might of been noticed by someone, who would of started the ball rolling.

One way or the other, she was going to do what ever she wanted to do...her x husband should of told her parents.....had a serious talk with them, about her problem-s.
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I agree, but in seeing the parents behavior I doubt that anything would have been done. They aren't very rational as well...
 
weaselpuppy said:
I agree, but in seeing the parents behavior I doubt that anything would have been done. They aren't very rational as well...
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OUAT I knew a lady with problems, shes now 55 her parents stood in the shadows, its hard to get treatment for an adult , who is independent and
living alone.

She was horrible, and would do anything, and a very bad person, in many different ways....but very cunning, and deceitful, and not to be underestimated,
as I witnessed.
 
SmartSassyBBW said:
Another body found in a lake. I wished they would search Castaic Lake near Los Angeles again for 20 year old Bryce Laspisa missing since August. He left his car after a crash beside the lake and disappeared. Maybe his body is caught in debris.

Remains found inside truck may solve 35-year-old Texas cold case
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/04/19/remains-found-inside-truck-solves-35-year-old-texas-cold-case/
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Sometimes they are never found even if there are witnesses that saw them go into the lake.

Our elderly neighbor was suffering from terminal cancer. On Christmas Eve about 5 years ago now she drove her car to the closest bridge down from our home. There were witnesses who were fishing on the other side of the lake bank who saw her jump off the bridge. 911 was called immediately and they had the boats out less than an hour searching for her. They never found her although they searched for her for months.:( The lake she went in was huge and it flows into a large river.

All they ever found was her little cap she always wore because she had lost all of her hair. Since there were witnesses to her going in the lake the Probate Judge deemed her deceased two years after her death. Which is a short amount of time and it usually is done after 5-7 years.

So at least I am glad that Teleka was in a lake where she could be found when the weather warmed up.

IMO
 
weaselpuppy said:
I agree, but in seeing the parents behavior I doubt that anything would have been done. They aren't very rational as well...
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It wouldn't surprise me at all if the ex-husband DID try to talk to her family about Teleka's mental illness. He seemed genuinely concerned about her and he had been concerned for years. If he knew it..... then her family had to know as well, imo.

I thought I read that he even tried to let the college know about his concerns about her mental health. If true, I bet this is why they divorced. He said she had always accused him of having affairs and he said that absolutely wasn't true but he couldn't convince Teleka of that. Which makes a lot of sense because he was having to deal with a wife who had serious mental issues.

IMO
 
I don't think the ex husband told the school anything. Teleka wrote in her tweets that after she and her ex broke up, he told her teachers that she was crazy because they started to treat her differently.

I always took this as paranoia. I think the husband just wanted out once he saw that she had problems and no desire to get help. Teleka accused him of writing a note to her school but that really does not make sense, if you think about it. Even if he had written a note to the school, do you really think they would have distributed it to all of her teachers? That's a huge FERPA violation.

I don't think there was any helping Teleka because she had lived with her mental illness for so long and she may have thought she was smarter than it.

I think her siblings would have supported her because I have a feeling they knew something was wrong.
 
A repost of an old article. Teleka's ex-husband was one of the only people in her life to recognize that she was very ill, and who tried to encourage her to get help. Also, a reminder: Teleka's parents did not approve of this marriage and that even now, they don't appear to believe she was ever mentally ill. They knew her her whole life and didn't see the illness. They have seen all we have seen since she went missing. They still don't see her as mentally ill. Does anyone really think they'd believe anything of the sort coming from the man they don't 'approve of'?

Calderon said Patrick’s parents opposed the union because, among other things, Calderon was not a member of the Seventh-Day Adventist church. Patrick’s father was a longtime pastor with the Seventh-Day Adventist church in New York state.

But Calderon said Patrick was strong willed and stubborn and stayed with him despite her parents’ objections.
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He said he eventually moved himself and his two children out of the couple’s apartment for fear of their physical and mental well-being, and pleaded with Patrick to get counseling. He said she initially agreed with his requests but then quickly changed her mind, resisted his pleas to get help and later filed for divorce.
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Patrick’s family members have said previously that she has never been diagnosed with any type of mental illness. Asked if he ever voiced his concerns about Patrick’s mental health to her family, he said he did not, because Patrick was “an adult and she made her own choices.”

“I was trying to be a true friend to her and in doing so I lost our marriage, I lost our aspirations, I mean I lost everything,” Calderon said.
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http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2014/01/teleka_patricks_ex-husband_say.html

IMO, it is inappropriate to cast some sort of blame/responsibility on the one person in Teleka's life who suspected she was ill and encouraged her to get help, who was not accepted by her parents, and who had two special needs children to protect.

Geez, I still remember the days when this poor guy came forward and was brandished a liar (because, you know, all divorced guys lie and gaslight their ex wives, ALL of them! :facepalm:), that he was out to stick it to Teleka, and was disgustingly taking his moment in the limelight.

Now he's partly to blame for her death? :banghead:
 
Agreed Magdalyn, In her life there were some who imo were aware that she was experiencing some form of mental health issues. We've seen evidence of this in the tweets. The one person who told her straight up that she needed to get help and wanted for her to get well, was Calderon. I think he was very wise to insist upon counselling and treatment. In the end Dr. Patrick made her own choices about her situation that were not under his control.

Although there was a level of disbelief and denial, in the end it was Teleka herself who could have sought help and chose not to. Even if the family had wanted to, there was little they could have done for her. :(

MOO
 
I definitely commend Teleka's ex husband. It was not his job to write letters to her school or to talk to her family who obviously did not like him too much.

He did the right thing--request that she seek help and moved on for his and the kids safety when she wouldn't.
 
JMO, from experience, you cannot force another adult to get mental health treatment. TP's ex did all he could do. Her family had to know there were issues. They chose not to see.
 
Prosecution_Rests said:
I definitely commend Teleka's ex husband. It was not his job to write letters to her school or to talk to her family who obviously did not like him too much.

He did the right thing--request that she seek help and moved on for his and the kids safety when she wouldn't.
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Narcissistic people can forget about you real quick,as Calderon found out.... she moved on with her life and problems.
 
KRIME KING said:
Narcissistic people can forget about you real quick,as Calderon found out.... she moved on with her life and problems.
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So true....


sometimes you don't realize they were narcissistic until they are out of your life...happened with me. Still can't believe we don't have barely any connection after 3 years of 2-3 hour conversations every single day.....urgh.
 
Loudmouth said:

Thanks for this post.

One of the frustrating aspects of this case is that TP was not in a rational state of mind. While it is apparent that she was suffering from paranoid delusions, we will never know what was going through her mind, what she heard, saw or felt (remember, according to the tweets she was experiencing tactile delusions as well). There are a million different things she could have been thinking. I still contend that she ended up in the lake as a result of the mental issues. She didn't just get lost and end up there. Whether it was because she fell down while running from a hallucination or simply walked into the lake under the command of voices, we simply will never know.
And that's what makes this case even more tragic. It doesn't feel like closure because there are questions we just won't ever be able to answer. I especially feel for her family, because there wasn't anything they could do. In the comments section of one of the articles about this case, someone pointed out that if they had known about her condition, they could have gone to probate court and forced her to be examined by a psychiatrist. I think that would never have worked. First of all, TP was a psychiatrist so she would have known what to say to pass the exam. Second, we all know very well that TP was adept at hiding her mental illness. She was even able to get a doctorate and an MD while hiding it!
Click to expand...

TP wasn't a psychiatrist. She was an MD doing her a Psychiatry rotation (residency).

My opinion is that her family (particularly her brother, due to tweets he'd made in response to hers) was aware that something wasn't right with her but due to pride and high expectations, they chose to remain in denial. A shame they apparently had no use for her ex husband all because he wasn't Seventh Day Adventist - not very "Christian" if you ask me. It sounds like his life w/ TP was a nightmare yet he stuck by her for quite some time. Life with someone who's mentally ill is never easy.
 
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