MI MI - Jessica Heeringa, 25, Norton Shores, 26 April 2013 #5

[Woe.be.gone]

Everyone is really harping on the owner.....even if he had cameras she would still have gone missing. What if it was low quality and you couldn't see anything, then you (general you) would be hounding him that he didn't have a good enough system. He can't win.

I agree he may be cheap and complacent, no one has gone missing from there before correct?

Also, as far as have men only on the night shift, etc....some women choose these shifts as it allows them to stay home with kids during the day or they are working a second job, etc.

The cops had asked him to install cameras over a year earlier. He made his choices so he's going to have to deal with the fallout. Inexcusable imo.

What's done is done. He rushed out to install them the day after Jessica went missing. :banghead: It's his business and he should have cared about the safety of his employees prior to a tragedy. I don't feel sorry for him and he's crawled into a hole it seems too. :banghead:

 

[missgulfsouth]

While we like to assume that having cameras may have prevented the abduction, I dont know if that is the case. Think of all the bank robberies where the robber is clearly shown on camera. Does not seem to deter them. Same with other convenience store robberies. THe perp may have just concealed his face. I think the safest thing would be to have doors locked and people served thru a window after dark. ( store I worked at back in the 70's did exactly that..) But even one single clerk walking out at closing is not safe! I sure would not want to do it. And the Exxon is oddly isolated, even tho it is right off the highway. Surrounded by shops that are closed by dark. Went there once after a late flight in, and was so creeped out I only put in enough gas to get me home and got out of there! I cant imagine employees feeling safe there...

Just the chance that it COULD have aided in her rescue and his apprehension is enough reason to install cameras.

Being that there were none, we have nothing to go on. Video surveillance would have helped to determine height, build, the way he walks, his clothing.....it would have been so beneficial! Family members, friends, aquaintances, co-workers might have identified him. Instead, we have a sketch from a witness who saw him from a distance in a dark van.

 

[missgulfsouth]

Everyone is really harping on the owner.....even if he had cameras she would still have gone missing. What if it was low quality and you couldn't see anything, then you (general you) would be hounding him that he didn't have a good enough system. He can't win.

I agree he may be cheap and complacent, no one has gone missing from there before correct?

Also, as far as have men only on the night shift, etc....some women choose these shifts as it allows them to stay home with kids during the day or they are working a second job, etc.

No one has gone missing from there before. Not a good argument. What if she were your daughter?

 

[Flutterby80]

<Mod Snip>
Chief Shaw has not mentioned a coworker. He mentions a witness who is a "she" - not a husband duo witness.
He has only mentioned the "she". And "she" was the one who saw the abductor's face as he drove the van past her. CS doesn't spell out the witness's exact position. She is the one who assisted in creating the sketch.

Not once has it been mentioned that the gas station closes at midnight.
The confusion about closing time has always been between 11:00 and 11:30 p.m.
I've searched high and low for official closing times but can't find a solid source. I swear the first news report I saw said the station closed at 11:00 p.m. I've read all the explanations for the later hours during the week. But I can't find an official souce listing the regular hours for this gas station. It appears to me that Jessica was preparing to close at 11:00 p.m.

<Mod Snip>.

Its been linked before but here it is again. http://m.exxonmobillocator.com/en-us/737233cb87dfe0e7b5525a1b7ecc112c

 

[cluciano63]

I do not think it is legal to say they will only hire men for night shifts, for example.

Where I live, they have to have two people, or the cashier is in a locked, bullet proof cage. Those are the choices, for night shift. Of course it took a fw murders to get there.

 

[Woe.be.gone]

If he didn't have cameras I HIGHLY doubt he had an alarm system. :twocents:
It's really easy to put the two in at the same time for a pretty good deal. :twocents:



Including my Dad's. Believe me, we 100% understand that. We are cutting corners ourselves.
Several years ago he was making 6 figures. Now he is barely making ends meet.

But there are corners you cut and corners you DON'T.
You do not cut corners that compromise safety. :twocents:

My Dad will not allow an unarmed employee to work alone at night.
It isn't even just FEMALES. This is the reason why.
Most of the time my DAD works at night if it's needed.

He couldn't live with himself if something happened. I can't even tell him about Jessica's case.
It bothers him too much and he just cannot comprehend how anyone would take those risks.



I MIGHT accept that argument if this gas station wasn't so d@mn isolated. :twocents:
This was just so far out there it might as well have had a target on it.
No cameras was just so inexcusable.

Your dad's a smart guy, someone who thinks with his brain, who cares ultimately about what's most important and a good businessman. I bet he's a great father too! :rockon:

I agree with you that Jessica's boss, for whatever reasons, is partially to blame. Wonder if he has any daughters?

 

[trenchmouth]

If you took over for Chief Shaw today, What are the top 5 things you would do right now?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Around here they wander right through downtown, across the highway, into yards. There is no shortage of them. I can't hang bird feeders because the jump up into the trees, knock them down to break them open and then feast. And they travel in packs.

I guess the ones who turn up in suburbia have gone rogue :lol:

We do see plenty of deer in these parts, though. There are golf courses, small lakes and/or retention ponds, and wooded areas that attract them, especially during deer hunting season when they're heading away from hunting grounds.

 

[missgulfsouth]

If the gas station closes at 11:30 (on a Friday night) why were the pumps turned off at 11:00?

(Now, I read that they were turned off a few pages back here, so don't jump down my throat if that is incorrect information. Just tell me that it isn't accurate and I will thank you for it. All I have to go on is information that is being stated here.)

All I know for sure is, if you say you close at 11:30 and I show up wanting gas at 11:25, then you had better still have gas for me. Closing time means you serve the customer until that time. Or has customer service really taken that much of a nosedive?

 

[MsFacetious]

I am not saying she would not have gone missing if there had been cameras.
It's happened before where the abduction has still occurred even with the video.
If he had good cameras we would have the abduction on video.

Cameras at the front, back and on the pumps would give us the vehicle, plate AND perp on video.
There is a very good chance we would have the vehicle description for sure (is it REALLY the silver van?)
We would likely have the perp walking... be able to show his movements (which someone might recognize.)

If it WAS someone known to Jessica it might be someone known to other clerks too...
They might already identified him and found Jessica. The guy who had cameras put in, would be a hero.

I am also not saying they only have to have men working the night shift.
If you have to have ONE person working alone, have all possible safe guards in place!

And when police come to you and say "Hey it would really help us out if you would install cameras..."
WHY wouldn't you say "Hey... you know, that might be helpful to ME as well..."

It's like having insurance on a car or health insurance.
IF you never crash or have medical issues you don't need it.
There will be occasions you need it that it won't be much help either.

The times you need it that WILL help however, will be priceless. :twocents:

 

[jenstar]

Well, here's a hybrid map I've made from linked sources. It cross references Public Hunting Areas with local Campgrounds.

http://s1299.photobucket.com/user/jenstar551/media/hunting_zpsfe0be78a.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0



Source One:
https://maps.google.com/maps?q=camp...unds,6179229917451125095,43.262206,-86.113586


Source two:

http://www.midnr.com/FLW/LandsOpen-Hunting/Hunting_Land_muskegon_COUNTY.pdf





As you can see there's only two major campgrounds closest to the Hunting grounds and not so far from interstate 31 (red line that runs n/s). Because it's said to be more "Isolated" IMHO Wolf Lake Resort/CG would be the first place I'd look.

 

[missgulfsouth]

If you took over for Chief Shaw today, What are the top 5 things you would do right now?

I realize you are being sarcastic. But....I think he is probably doing a great job with what little he has to go on. And we here have even less, and what we do have seems convoluted so much of the time!

I would look at that video surveillance. Oh wait......

 

[cluciano63]

Blame is a harsh word, as far as the owner is concerned, IMO.
Yes, he should have had cameras. Would it have prevented this type of crime? I doubt it but may have aided in solving it. Personally I would never have worked in a place like that, without protection, at night, but understand not everyone has that option.

Liable, he may end up being, but blame seems like a harsh, personal term to me. I am sure he feels it anyway.

 

[MsFacetious]

I haven't seen anyone criticizing what Chief Shaw is doing?
Other than not doing searches... which I still find weird.

Your dad's a smart guy, someone who thinks with his brain, who cares ultimately about what's most important and a good businessman. I bet he's a great father too! :rockon:

I agree with you that Jessica's boss, for whatever reasons, is partially to blame. Wonder if he has any daughters?

Very smart guy... a bit of a workaholic...
I never understood why his freaking secretary couldn't just work that night shift!
Now that I'm an adult I understand that a bit more! :giggle:

He's had A LOT of work experience... gas station... alarm business... electronics... etc.
Normally cases I follow don't bother him. But this one... REALLY bothers him.

 

[trenchmouth]

No I'm not being sarcastic. Honest question to generate ideas on how to solve. I think Chief Shaw is a good humble man and is doing the very best he can. I am in Engineering and have an analytical mind. I keep coming back to how do we solve the crime? Much of the discussion on here is around what color shirt was the perp wearing and why don't they have cameras etc? That's not going to solve the crime.

The things I would suggest I think he is probably already doing. We just don't have visibility.

 

[missgulfsouth]

I do not think it is legal to say they will only hire men for night shifts, for example.

Where I live, they have to have two people, or the cashier is in a locked, bullet proof cage. Those are the choices, for night shift. Of course it took a fw murders to get there.

And only having men work the night shift isn't necessary. But two workers present should be mandatory. It's sad that it took a few murders to get people to do what should have been done all along.

 

[Flutterby80]

If the gas station closes at 11:30 (on a Friday night) why were the pumps turned off at 11:00?

(Now, I read that they were turned off a few pages back here, so don't jump down my throat if that is incorrect information. Just tell me that it isn't accurate and I will thank you for it. All I have to go on is information that is being stated here.)

All I know for sure is, if you say you close at 11:30 and I show up wanting gas at 11:25, then you had better still have gas for me. Closing time means you serve the customer until that time. Or has customer service really taken that much of a nosedive?

I don't know but if I get gas any time of the day, there are times I have to wait for someone inside to clear the last transaction. Sometimes irritatingly long. Maybe she just hadn't gotten around to doing that?

 

[jenstar]

If you took over for Chief Shaw today, What are the top 5 things you would do right now?

#1. Would be to order the poor guy to get a full nights rest. The last interview he did sounded like he has barely slept a wink.

 

[gam]

If the gas station closes at 11:30 (on a Friday night) why were the pumps turned off at 11:00?

(Now, I read that they were turned off a few pages back here, so don't jump down my throat if that is incorrect information. Just tell me that it isn't accurate and I will thank you for it. All I have to go on is information that is being stated here.)

All I know for sure is, if you say you close at 11:30 and I show up wanting gas at 11:25, then you had better still have gas for me. Closing time means you serve the customer until that time. Or has customer service really taken that much of a nosedive?

Where was it said that pumps were turned off at 11:00? I don't recall seeing that.

Were the pumps actually turned off, or is it pay before pumping? Pay before pumping is very popular at the gas stations in Mi, it was put into place because of all the drive offs.

 

[missgulfsouth]

No I'm not being sarcastic. Honest question to generate ideas on how to solve. I think Chief Shaw is a good humble man and is doing the very best he can. I am in Engineering and have an analytical mind. I keep coming back to how do we solve the crime? Much of the discussion on here is around what color shirt was the perp wearing and why don't they have cameras etc? That's not going to solve the crime.

The things I would suggest I think he is probably already doing. We just don't have visibility.

The color shirt he was wearing is helpful to the extent that it may spark some recognition in someone who knows that a certain person was wearing that shirt they day Jessica was abducted, or has a shirt like that and has been acting suspiciously.

And I think some of the people I would question, I'm not allowed to talk about here. So all of our theories can't truly be openly discussed.

As for the cameras, it is mentioned as precautionary. It can't bring Jessica back. But it may prompt business owners to realize that it really can happen to them. Then maybe, just maybe, WS would have less cases to grieve over. It is my hope that the public would be educated, take the blinders off. IF we can't help Jessica then we want to prevent another case like hers and video surveillance is crucial! Right now, all we have is video from a business that I believe is 2 miles away from the Exxon station. And this case is almost entirely based around the van in that video, which may or may not be involved.

Think about the Terilynn Monette case. It was video surveillance from a nearby business, and traffic cameras, that allowed investigators to narrow down where and when she was last seen. Without that evidence they wouldn't know where to begin to look. And that is kind of where we are with this case.