MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #3

[FindHG]

I agree Mimommy, but I guess we were hoping to establish if there were any daily/weekly patterns/routines Julia had? Did she have a washer and dryer in the apartment? Did she do laundry on Sunday nights? Could she have been followed back to the apartment from the laundry facilities?

She was said to have texted back forth with Jen at the time, around 10:30 pm, granted a text, anyone could have sent from her phone, certainly somebody who may have killed her. I guess nothing stood out in those texts? Did they speak again after lunch, anyone from the family, or with friends, I don't recall? Did Julia leave a record of speaking with anyone else after work back at her apartment, besides texts?

 

[MIMOMMY]

I have said from almost the very beginning, I do not think she let anyone into the apartment - I believe they were already there.

 

[psyquestor]

Sure, some extended family members have accused JT of controlling behavior and worse. But when asked for examples, the things that come up are "bathroom door" (let's not go into that again) or JT's request that the twins use their hot iron in the garage rather than in their small house. It seems to me quite natural to ask children to be considerate of other people living in the house. These are NOT examples of controlling behavior. I think that JT may be a bit old-fashioned and strict, but that is very different from being controlling. I doubt if any parents complained that JT is "controlling" because that does not seem like a typical complaint. What kind of controlling behavior is this? I can imagine that some parents complaint that he is too strict but that is something different in my opinion. Discipline and self-discipline is an important part of martial arts. Decades ago, martial arts studios used to have very strict discipline, but times have changed. Maybe JT's style does not fit the children's program so well, and he teaches more hardened adults instead. Anyway, so far I have not seen or heard any example of controlling behavior. If he IS controlling, then his controlling behavior is not successful. I am not sure even who "wears the pants" in the Turnquist household.

Irrelevant. He said / she said. The Do Jo is clear evidence that others had the opinion he was controlling; yet you dismiss it so easily. Me? Not as easily. I've used direct quotes and citations in the past to back up this opinion. Moving on. No point in re-hashing. As stated multiple times, I take the grandparents at their word, having no reason to doubt their first hand knowledge.

Granted, she may have had suspicions before. But if she did, why did she not act upon it?

Assumes facts not known.

Perhaps Julia did not trust Rose enough to tell her everything. My impression is that she has not always been discrete about private matters of other family members.

Unless you can show some evidence that Julia did not trust the Grandmother who she lived with and helped raise her for most of her life, I'm not going to dignify this with an answer. Do you have anything showing this other than an opinion or anecdotal evidence?

The relationship wasn't strained at the time of Julia's death.

More he said /she said. Assumes facts not presented. I've stated mine as an opinion, but you seem quite sure. Upon what do you base this opinion?

What odd statements?

Discussed ad nauseum in previous threads, regarding video interviews and MSM statements JT made regarding Julia.

I think JT is kept away because of the Judges orders, I think. I am not sure if CPS has seen any of the images, or whether they have any authority to let JT back into his house.

It is my understanding that CPS / DHS are the ones who made such requests. What they are basing these requests upon is not fully known to anyone outside of their agency. I'm saying that PERHAPS they are privy to what the images consist of, since they are in the business of making sure children are cared for according to certain standards of care. The particulars of this are not my forte and I have no experience with this.

 

[MIMOMMY]

If you go back and look at the photo's from when JT was arraigned --- those individuals in RED --- are the PARENT's from the Dojo....

Again, just my two cents.

Since we are in the habit of not assuming as of today - What FACTS do you have that show JT's guilt? I am SURE that Ypsi. LE would LOVE this information.

 

[Spellbound]

It seems that many of us feel a friendship based on only a few months (or even 2 1/2 years) is probably clouded by unknowns, and second hand information of what the teller wants you to believe. It does not make anyone else wrong who has known them much longer if they remember things differently. I know that even when multiple people see an event occur, they cannot always recall it exactly the same way. And in retelling, most people will give "their view or perception", which makes no one else less legitimate. And any retelling will often be slanted to make them appear the legitimate or only right description. I do believe many of us are trying to see behind the words for the truth.

What is sad is that we do not have Julia to give her side. It may not be what the parents want us to think, or what the grandparents believe. Or it could be exactly as either sees it. From any posts I have read by Julia, she seemed to love her entire family, but that does not mean she liked everything about them. She may have had feelings she did not share with anyone, that could be helpful in solving this case. Unfortunately, those "clues" cannot be uncovered, so we pick apart every nuance repeatedly to try to understand.

I am deeply troubled that the thread has become somewhat contentious. We should be able to disagree, see things differently, yet remain cordial. I personally do not want to see our thread locked. Not that it will be yet, but please be careful not to be accusatory in comments about any of the family members or posters for seeing things different than others might. Maybe I am perceiving words in ways that are not intended, but I am hopeful we can stick around together until this case gets solved.

This is just my perception of the turmoil this case is causing in our feelings.

 

[Spellbound]

If you go back and look at the photo's from when JT was arraigned --- those individuals in RED --- are the PARENT's from the Dojo....

Again, just my two cents.

Since we are in the habit of not assuming as of today - What FACTS do you have that show JT's guilt? I am SURE that Ypsi. LE would LOVE this information.

Yes, some parents are very supportive. Others have said on social media ( no link available at this time) that they did not like JT as an instructor. So who is right? We really do not know that, do we?

 

[Spellbound]

I have said from almost the very beginning, I do not think she let anyone into the apartment - I believe they were already there.

I am not following what this was in reply to. Are you inferring the roommate(s)?

 

[psyquestor]

I have posted a comprehensive list of my thoughts on this case. Much of which has citations for information I felt was relevant.

What FACTS do you have that prove his innocence? I'm sure that LE would love to hear it.

Let's start with where he was and what he was doing for the dates in question. A timeline would be best.

 

[rosesfromangels]

Let's get back to trying to solve the murder of Julia. We have to agree that there are two sides to every story and all the character accusations are not getting us anywhere. I'm glad that we do have people on this thread that are focused on our main goal. Others seem to try to play sides and protect someone or try to deflect blame for most anything. Let's just start dealing with facts as rosefromangels has suggested. Let's gather info about Julia's normal habits and places she would go. A timeline for that last Sunday, Monday and Tuesday would be nice. If interested, I have tried to develop one but it may need more work. Should I post what I've developed and possibly we can build on it? I'll be "off line" for a few hours but I'll check back later this evening.

Trojan,
As a suggestion, you might hold on to your timeline for the time being. Your thoughts would influence our direction, and I'd rather start an independent timeline, and then compare against yours.

Along with the activity timeline, we want to list as many people as possible that Julia had routine contact with. Initials or descriptions such as (Barrista Guy) or whatever are fine. These people should be placed on the chart by day/time of week, and have a rating next to their name. 1-3. 1 is someone close like family/besties, 2 would be friends and 3 would be acquaintances or service providers like dentists, etc.

You will be surprised what might emerge from this exercise.

As far as the time to hone in on, just keeping it to a couple hours Sunday morning would be an oversight. The time of death is an estimate, although a good one....but it is not perfect science.

 

[Spellbound]

Grandma Rose was, like JT, Kim, and Jennifer close to Julia. So she should be subjected to the same scrutiny as the others, IMO. Whatever secret's these people have can be relevant to the investigation. MOO

Seems to me that any "secrets" to be scrutinized should be done by LE, not a forum.
We can toss out what we believe to be secrets, or family tragedies, or mental health issues, or any other negatives to make a family member look bad, but if they are not a focus of the legal investigation, I would think we should let it go. Say it once, discuss it briefly perhaps, but move on.


JMO

 

[rosesfromangels]

Trojan,
As a suggestion, you might hold on to your timeline for the time being. Your thoughts would influence our direction, and I'd rather start an independent timeline, and then compare against yours.

Along with the activity timeline, we want to list as many people as possible that Julia had routine contact with. Initials or descriptions such as (Barrista Guy) or whatever are fine. These people should be placed on the chart by day/time of week, and have a rating next to their name. 1-3. 1 is someone close like family/besties, 2 would be friends and 3 would be acquaintances or service providers like dentists, etc.

You will be surprised what might emerge from this exercise.

As far as the time to hone in on, just keeping it to a couple hours Sunday morning would be an oversight. The time of death is an estimate, although a good one....but it is not perfect science.

Oh no, now I'm quoting myself! ; )

We need to also hone in on aside from a stalker, who knew Julia would be home alone that Sunday?

 

[Sillybilly]

Just a reminder to not personalize posts ... address the post but NOT the poster !!

Thanks.

 

[DazednConfuzed09]

I have posted a comprehensive list of my thoughts on this case. Much of which has citations for information I felt was relevant.

What FACTS do you have that prove his innocence? I'm sure that LE would love to hear it.

Let's start with where he was and what he was doing for the dates in question. A timeline would be best.

On this comprehensive list you have so graciously provided us, do you have a news article or statement from LE linking JT to CB's murder you could share? I believe I missed it. Thank you.

 

[TigerBalm]

The report is that Julia passed between midnight and 3 - 4 am Sunday into Monday. This is the time frame we need to be looking at.

What report are you referring to, can you please provide a link, thanks!

 

[Spellbound]

I believe we discussed a possible connection between Julia and Chelsea's cases on the Chelsea Bruck forum in-depth. No specific person was named as the link. I believe the possible connection of JT to both would only be that he hunted/fished and CB was found on possible hunting land. (not sure this is the case, as I thought her body was found on private property where a house was going to be built).

 

[psyquestor]

Could LE have JT's cell phone tracking data that puts him in Ypsi the night/morning of the murder?

That is a possibility. Items collected after warrant obtained (from memory) included current and old cell phones, video equipment, digital camera(s) and a laptop. I had wondered myself about the video recording devices. I wondered if they were trying to connect EXIF data on the alleged images, to the devices in the Turnquist home.

For whatever reason, LE has JT on their radar and they're not backing off. One caveat is that he could be guilty of the Child *advertiser censored* charges, but innocent of any other wrongdoing. I have tried to keep this foremost in my mind. Until the conclusion of the trial, it would be impossible to dismiss it entirely however. This is not a witch hunt, it's an effort to learn the truth.

A question asked and not answered (that I could see) is the location of the laptop that had been on layaway at the time of Julia's murder. Has it been turned over to Law Enforcement? If so, when.

 

[black_squirrel]

She was said to have texted back forth with Jen at the time, around 10:30 pm, granted a text, anyone could have sent from her phone, certainly somebody who may have killed her. I guess nothing stood out in those texts? Did they speak again after lunch, anyone from the family, or with friends, I don't recall? Did Julia leave a record of speaking with anyone else after work back at her apartment, besides texts?

I think Trojan knows this better, but I believe that Julia spoke on the phone with Jennifer earlier that evening. Then Julia "texted" or send an "app" around 10:30 (would like to know more details). I also read somewhere that Julia send the message that she is watching the movie Mean Girls, one of her favorite movies.

 

[TigerBalm]

Let's get back to trying to solve the murder of Julia. We have to agree that there are two sides to every story and all the character accusations are not getting us anywhere. I'm glad that we do have people on this thread that are focused on our main goal. Others seem to try to play sides and protect someone or try to deflect blame for most anything. Let's just start dealing with facts as rosefromangels has suggested. Let's gather info about Julia's normal habits and places she would go. A timeline for that last Sunday, Monday and Tuesday would be nice. If interested, I have tried to develop one but it may need more work. Should I post what I've developed and possibly we can build on it? I'll be "off line" for a few hours but I'll check back later this evening.

I, for one, would appreciate reading what you have gathered Trojan. I feel that it would be very helpful, as you and 4ist are the only members related to Julia on this forum. Then, as a group, we can work together to try and fill in any gaps. JMO

 

[black_squirrel]

That is a possibility. Items collected after warrant obtained (from memory) included current and old cell phones, video equipment, digital camera(s) and a laptop. I had wondered myself about the video recording devices. I wondered if they were trying to connect EXIF data on the alleged images, to the devices in the Turnquist home.

I would guess (but I'm not sure) that they would have obtained meta-data of phone records a long time ago. They would not need the physical phones for that.

For whatever reason, LE has JT on their radar and they're not backing off. One caveat is that he could be guilty of the Child *advertiser censored* charges, but innocent of any other wrongdoing. I have tried to keep this foremost in my mind. Until the conclusion of the trial, it would be impossible to dismiss it entirely however. This is not a witch hunt, it's an effort to learn the truth.

Sure. I think the two investigations are fairly independent. The alleged child *advertiser censored* could be a possible motive. But if there were only 18 images, then I don't think it would be a strong motive. Even if Julia had found out about this alleged crime, JT could have easily got rid of any proof by accidentally dropping the laptop in lake Erie, and there would be no good motive for murder.

A question asked and not answered (that I could see) is the location of the laptop that had been on layaway at the time of Julia's murder. Has it been turned over to Law Enforcement? If so, when.

According to the Turnquist family (as MIMOMMY stated somewhere I believe) this computer was taken in the search warrant, as well as other electronics. Others on this forum have disputed this though.

 

[black_squirrel]

I have posted a comprehensive list of my thoughts on this case. Much of which has citations for information I felt was relevant.

What FACTS do you have that prove his innocence? I'm sure that LE would love to hear it.

Let's start with where he was and what he was doing for the dates in question. A timeline would be best.

The dates in question are December 9/10 of 2012. JT, Jennifer and Kim have stated publicly that that evening and morning (the time of the murder) JT was at home.