MI MI - Julia Niswender, 23, EMU student, Ypsilanti, 10 Dec 2012 - #5

[Deleted member 132804]

I am very sorry Trojan, if that is the case. It disappoints me to no end regarding the character of the RM and it tells me how vindictive the ringleader actually is.

I have tried to contact Julia's roommate to get some info concerning the apartment but she has not answered me. I'm not sure how often she checks her email or whether or not she just won't answer me due to the last JT trial.

In earlier threads there were other EMU students commenting here. Maybe one of them can weigh in here. Even if they didn't live at Peninsular Place they may have visited other students at the apartment, remembering which locks. Or, former EMU students may be in contact with other former classmates who rented there in 2012. I'd be willing to bet management made changes after 2012.

Here is a link to reviews of the apartment complex from a few residents:
http://www.yelp.com/biz/peninsular-place-ypsilanti

The comment about the parking problem may be important here, lack of security in the parking lot. One commenter says there is a 'guest parking' unpaved, side lot which is dark and not monitored by security. It seems like someone who is up to no good could park there and sneak into the apartment complex undetected quite easily, by the sounds of the review.

 

[Spellbound]

Looking Glass, I have read similar reviews but never saw the one about a dark nonpaved area, so thanks for that. We did discuss this a bit earlier in the forum, and there has supposedly been added security measures since Julia's death.

Squirrel, something is bugging me about the abrasions on Julia's elbow area. You may be able to answer my question. Is there a martial arts move that could cause this? Would a grab to the elbow area be able to incapacitate someone quickly? Thanks for any input on this.

 

[Skigirl]

I've been reading over the earlier threads, since I missed them the first time around. For what it's worth, the panic buttons were in the apartments prior to Julia's murder, according to post #18 in the first thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-2012-drowning-homicide&p=8630804#post8630804

 

[Trojan1966]

I've been reading over the earlier threads, since I missed them the first time around. For what it's worth, the panic buttons were in the apartments prior to Julia's murder, according to post #18 in the first thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...-2012-drowning-homicide&p=8630804#post8630804

That is now, but I don't remember seeing a "panic" button when I saw her apartment. I'm not sure how to find out if one was there in 2012 or if they have been added since then.

 

[Skigirl]

That is now, but I don't remember seeing a "panic" button when I saw her apartment. I'm not sure how to find out if one was there in 2012 or if they have been added since then.

The post that I cited was from 12/12/2012, this is what it said, "...it does say that they have a courtesy patrol officer and the rooms have a 'panic button'". So, the apartments were being advertised as having panic buttons back in 2012. That said, I'm not sure how significant it is. I think a panic button isn't that easy to get to if you're under attack, even if there was one.

 

[black_squirrel]

Squirrel, something is bugging me about the abrasions on Julia's elbow area. You may be able to answer my question. Is there a martial arts move that could cause this? Would a grab to the elbow area be able to incapacitate someone quickly? Thanks for any input on this.

I am not sure how grabbing an arm/elbow would cause circular abrasions. It might give round bruises from the fingers. If the person has sharp nails, then there could be scratches but it wouldn't be circular.

I do not know any move on an elbow that would incapacitate an individual. One could control a person by putting them in some kind of arm bar. The person would still be able to scream, but would be under control otherwise.

I think the easiest way to overpower might be a chokehold, with an elbow of the perpetrator around the neck. That would cut off blood flow in the arteries and quickly cause unconsciousness. The chokehold would also make it difficult for the victim to scream. This doesn't really need any specialized martial arts training.

 

[Spellbound]

Thanks Squirrel. They would have to be very good to do a choke hold without leaving marks, I think. Seems she would have fought, kicked, scratched, something. A quick karate type chop, maybe... not sure how any of this would be done without leaving marks unless the perp knew exactly what he/she was doing.

 

[psyquestor]

Although I am not 100% sure about the stun gun, I cannot really think of anything else that would cause "two small circular abrasions on the left elbow area". But of course we don't really know where exactly on the elbow, how small the abrasions actually were, and how far apart they were.

Some tasers can be fired from a distance, but a stun gun can also be used by holding it against someone's skin. Since there are 2 electrodes,
it will leave 2 burn marks, at least when the skin is not covered with clothes.
https://books.google.com/books?id=8...&q=two small round abrasions stun gun&f=false

Here is an image of abrasions caused by a stun gun:
http://i.cbc.ca/1.2196542.138258765...erivatives/original_300/north-taser-marks.jpg

We don't know if Julia's abrasions near her elbow looked like that or not. But a pair of small round abrasions is typical for a stun gun.

I'm sure the ME would recognize wounds from a tazer / stun gun. For that reason I can't put much faith in this theory. They leave distinctive injuries fwiw. (and I do understand it's just a theory).

 

[Spellbound]

I'm sure the ME would recognize wounds from a tazer / stun gun. For that reason I can't put much faith in this theory. They leave distinctive injuries fwiw. (and I do understand it's just a theory).

Agree, and that is what bothers me. Not knowing more about the abrasions, exactly where they were and how close together, etc.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

I do wonder, if circular abrasions found on Julia's left elbow were not caused by a stun gun, what could they be from? I've thought of the possibility of such marks being caused by struggle. However, it would seem, if there was a struggle, there would be other signs of such.

 

[ModMaiden]

To me it’s helpful to understand those two small circular abrasions. As my understanding is there are 3 degrees of abrasions.

First-degree – is only an epidermal injury
Second-degree – involves epidermis plus the dermis and some bleeding may occur.
Third degree – damage is to the subcutaneous layer and the skin. More serious type of abrasion injury and often referred to as avulsion. (I eliminated this one)

Most commonly abrasion injuries occur when exposed skin comes into moving contact with a rough surface. This causes that grinding or rubbing of the epidermis by removing the upper layer of skin. The degree level of the abrasion increases depending upon the situation.

In the Search Warrant - Section I states, “Had two small circular abrasions on her left elbow area.” There is no mention about these wounds bleeding. Also in Section I is reference to her tongue bleeding.

This gives the possibility that her wounds were First Degree in nature since no mention of bleeding. Basing ideas under this notion, let’s ask this…

For First Degree abrasions to happen on Julia, what might have caused those two wounds?

Also factor in that she might have sustained those previously and they were healing. So take into consideration healing time if these were not part of the actual murder.

I don’t know much about the abrasions apart from the report said so I’m looking at this from what the report did say, the different level of degree types and what could have Julia possibly hit to cause those abrasions.

 

[black_squirrel]

I'm sure the ME would recognize wounds from a tazer / stun gun. For that reason I can't put much faith in this theory. They leave distinctive injuries fwiw. (and I do understand it's just a theory).

I agree that ME would have recognized the wounds as possibly being from a stun gun. But do we know that the ME didn't recognize the wounds as being such? As pointed out before, the affidavit does not contain everything that LE knows.

In the affidavit there is no explanation for the circular abrasions. This doesn't mean that the police doesn't have a clue what caused it. They probably do have an idea, but decided not to put it in the affidavit. If the wound was caused by a stun gun, then this fact would not really support the theory that JT is involved, unless they can show that Turnquist owned a stun gun.

The wounds may not have looked like those coming from the stun gun. But what else could it be. Could a fall cause a small abrasions? I think that would probably cause just 1 bigger abrasion. Could it come from injections? Being shot with a pellet gun twice?
I haven't come up with any theory that is better than the stun gun theory.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Injections may be a possible explanation for the circular abrasions on Julia's left elbow. But I cannot think of any drug that would not show up on a toxicology report. The pert. could have injected Julia with something, rendering her unconscious.

 

[black_squirrel]

Injections may be a possible explanation for the circular abrasions on Julia's left elbow. But I cannot think of any drug that would not show up on a toxicology report. The pert. could have injected Julia with something, rendering her unconscious.

Succinylcholine is hard, but not impossible to detect.
https://writersforensicsblog.wordpr...cinylcholine-is-it-the-perfect-murder-weapon/
I think many of possible drugs used don't show up in a typical toxicologic screening. One sort of has to know exactly what drug you are looking for to do a test that is specifically designed for that particular drug.

At a large dose Succinylcholine is deadly. It relaxes muscles to the point that one may stop breathing. It is cruel using this drug for murder, because the victim is fully aware while being killed and unable to defend. In Julia's case it might fit with her being asphyxiated before being placed in the tub.

But it would be difficult to inject someone unless they are under control already. Perhaps she was injected while asleep.

As far as I know, injection marks don't really look like abrasions, though.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

Succinylcholine is hard, but not impossible to detect.
https://writersforensicsblog.wordpr...cinylcholine-is-it-the-perfect-murder-weapon/
I think many of possible drugs used don't show up in a typical toxicologic screening. One sort of has to know exactly what drug you are looking for to do a test that is specifically designed for that particular drAt a large dose

Succinylcholine is deadly. It relaxes muscles to the point that one may stop breathing. It is cruel using this drug for murder, because the victim is fully aware while being killed and unable to defend. In Julia's case it might fit with her being asphyxiated before being placed in the tub.

But it would be difficult to inject someone unless they are under control already. Perhaps she was injected while asleep.

As far as I know, injection marks don't really look like abrasions, though.

Ah...good find! Agreed, this is a possibility IMO. Now that you've mentioned it, in conjunction with reading the link, I do remember hearing about 'SUX' in a movie. The link makes reference to 'SUX' being highlighted on the BIO channel in an informative documentary. I must see this! I didn't realize this drug was so easy to acquire in the US. Agreed, Julia could have been injected with this while she was sleeping.

 

[black_squirrel]

In Ohio, one doesn't need special permits to buy a stun gun. I think one can buy them anonymously over the counter.

Even in Michigan it seems easy to get a stun gun. The law says that you need a concealed weapons permit to have one and I guess one has to go to a gun shop to buy one. But one could also just buy one online from Walmart:
http://www.walmart.com/c/kp/stun-guns
(it comes in a cute pink color and 800,000 Volts )
I tried buying one, but did not complete it as I do not want to break any laws. The website didn't seem to stop me from purchasing even though
I put in a shipping address in Michigan. But I should say that I did not go as far as putting my credit card information, so perhaps it would have stopped me at a later point.

A person wanting to commit a crime probably would not order it online, but would just drive to a Walmart in Ohio (my guess 30-60 minutes from Ypsilanti, Monroe). Still, I think if a stun gun was indeed used, then I think the murderer probably had some experience using stun guns.

 

[Spellbound]

Interesting info re stun guns in Ohio, and buying them online. Seems if a stun gun was used, LE is not sharing that bit of info.

Hopefully, we are all trying to come up with other possible suspects, too. Perhaps JT has helpful info regarding this possibility and is unaware of that?

 

[Hatfield]

I do wonder, if circular abrasions found on Julia's left elbow were not caused by a stun gun, what could they be from? I've thought of the possibility of such marks being caused by struggle. However, it would seem, if there was a struggle, there would be other signs of such.

Yeah, its hard to guess at what they could be without pictures of seeing what the 2 abrasions look like. If we could see them it would help to be able to guess at what the cause could be.

 

[Deleted member 132804]

What about a tranquiliser gun? Could a tranquiliser gun or maybe a poison dart be responsible for the circular abrasions on Julia's elbow? Tranquiliser guns are used by hunters, animal control officers, veterinarians, farmers or ranchers, but not Law Enforcement. Poison darts can be used with a crossbow. It seems odd to think someone would be shooting a tranquiliser gun indoors, but a tranquiliser gun or poison arrow wouldn't make noise and could render a person unconscious quickly.

 

[pappa rob]

What about a tranquiliser gun? Could a tranquiliser gun or maybe a poison dart be responsible for the circular abrasions on Julia's elbow? Tranquiliser guns are used by hunters, animal control officers, veterinarians, farmers or ranchers, but not Law Enforcement. Poison darts can be used with a crossbow. It seems odd to think someone would be shooting a tranquiliser gun indoors, but a tranquiliser gun or poison arrow wouldn't make noise and could render a person unconscious quickly.

A dart would leave a puncture wound, not an abrasion.