GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

[Irisha]

Karmady, with all due respect, I work in Detroit and have roots going back several generations. Whichever post said they were raised in Garden City, so was my mother! My father was raised in Redford (both of my parents were born in Detroit, as was I).

While I do understand the bad rap that Detroit gets, it is not any worse than any number of large cities across the country.

Those of us on the board who know Detroit, can attest to the fact that there are many, many good things about the city.

I was raised in Garden City, went to GC East, lived there when I was married too. Now live in Redford, 5 mile and Beech Daly. I'm about 3/4 mile from the border of west <mod snip>. We have crime here, but I still walk to the store, but don't take my wallet and I don't walk at night. I've never owned a gun. I don't go to Detroit unless I have to. I might go Monday tho.

 

[Irisha]

I don't really understand how the proximity to Detroit is relevant. I also don't understand this idea that if knocking on your door at 3:30 AM, then OMG, it must be someone from Detroit trying to break-in. Could it be a home invasion? Possibly, but why does it have to be someone from Detroit? The suburbs around Detroit have low crime rates, showing that people committing crimes in Detroit are staying within their neighborhood and not venturing out. Plus, this website is filled with cases of murderers who live in suburbs and small towns.

I don't believe that where Ms. McBride came from ( the city ) even crossed his mind. IMO


Many Detroiters come to the burbs to shop.

 

[Irisha]

tiger's games, wing's games (before they axed downey lol), greektown, mexicantown, sommerset mall, outdoor concerts at the COPA and DTE, the science center/IMAX, theaters galore, target fireworks...

i can't wait to get back home :loveyou:

Exnay on DTE............ it will always be Pine Knob Music Theatre to me. Many great concert memories.

 

[greenbean]

I have never used the site linked here http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KDTW/2013/11/2/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Dearborn+Heights&req_state=MI&req_statename=Michigan to pull old weather but, I entered both zips that correspond to Dearborn heights and it yielded the same results. I am aware that the site presents as "Detroit Metro." If you look at your address bar, you will see "Dearborn Heights."

I thought maybe Renisha passed out for a bit, considering her BAC level at autopsy, and her clothes might be wet from dew or rain? If you'll note, in the weather read out I have linked, under Events- rain is listed. Also, the dew point starts to climb around three am.

Please note, I am not a meteorologist. I don't play one on TV. I was just curious what the weather was like the night that she died.

Any thoughts on why police originally told the family she was dumped?

Dearborn Heights police believe Renisha McBride, 19, was shot in self-defense as the shooter believed she was an intruder. Her family was initially told by police that her body was "dumped" and discovered near Warren Avenue and Outer Drive, but now police are saying she died on the man's front porch.

I realize that article is old but, it's the second or third I've seen that states that police told her family she was dumped. That seems ....odd. ??
LInk for that story: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23906588/prosecutors-looking-into-why-renisha-mcbride-was-shot-to-death-in-dearborn-heights

One more thing-- has there been any mention of when police were called after she was shot? Or why he hung up after he called and the 911 operator had to call him back? Was he disconnected? Maybe a dropped call?
Link to hang up:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/renisha-mcbrides-killer-called-911-report-shooting-hung/story?id=20875132

 

[Elainera]

It tells me that the prosecutors' office and the family's attorney are in close contact. How counterintuitive is it that the pros waits to charge for the tox report and when it comes back with a ridiculous BAC they charge the homeowner with murder two and the family's lawyer AND the prosecutor say that the tox is irrelevant to the charge. If so, than why wait for the tox?

jmo

Maybe they waited for the tox report to see whether she was into hard drugs. Addiction to hard drugs often leads to criminal activity such b&e and robbery. Alcohol not.

 

[Elainera]

I have never used the site linked here http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KDTW/2013/11/2/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Dearborn+Heights&req_state=MI&req_statename=Michigan to pull old weather but, I entered both zips that correspond to Dearborn heights and it yielded the same results. I am aware that the site presents as "Detroit Metro." If you look at your address bar, you will see "Dearborn Heights."

I thought maybe Renisha passed out for a bit, considering her BAC level at autopsy, and her clothes might be wet from dew or rain? If you'll note, in the weather read out I have linked, under Events- rain is listed. Also, the dew point starts to climb around three am.

Please note, I am not a meteorologist. I don't play one on TV. I was just curious what the weather was like the night that she died.

Any thoughts on why police originally told the family she was dumped?
I realize that article is old but, it's the second or third I've seen that states that police told her family she was dumped. That seems ....odd. ??
LInk for that story: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23906588/prosecutors-looking-into-why-renisha-mcbride-was-shot-to-death-in-dearborn-heights

One more thing-- has there been any mention of when police were called after she was shot? Or why he hung up after he called and the 911 operator had to call him back? Was he disconnected? Maybe a dropped call?
Link to hang up:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/renisha-mcbrides-killer-called-911-report-shooting-hung/story?id=20875132

Yes if you lie in the grass for some time dew can soak your clothes. Your theory would fit in with the missing 3 hours and the wet clothes. Good sleuthing!

Have no answer to your other question, why she was dumped, though.

 

[liljim]

many things that the family said early on they claimed they were told by police, based on information we still have no confirmation of, or just speculation based from their emotional response.

in regards to the comment that she was dumped, as far as i know police have not commented on whether they ever thought this or said this to anyone. so we just dont know.

as opposed to the claim that the family made that she was shot in the back of the head, the police specifically responded to this and said it did not come from them.

its totally understandable that they would not have everything right at that early point and might speak out of emotion of course.

 

[tlcya]

I have never used the site linked here http://www.wunderground.com/history/airport/KDTW/2013/11/2/DailyHistory.html?req_city=Dearborn+Heights&req_state=MI&req_statename=Michigan to pull old weather but, I entered both zips that correspond to Dearborn heights and it yielded the same results. I am aware that the site presents as "Detroit Metro." If you look at your address bar, you will see "Dearborn Heights."

I thought maybe Renisha passed out for a bit, considering her BAC level at autopsy, and her clothes might be wet from dew or rain? If you'll note, in the weather read out I have linked, under Events- rain is listed. Also, the dew point starts to climb around three am.

Please note, I am not a meteorologist. I don't play one on TV. I was just curious what the weather was like the night that she died.

Any thoughts on why police originally told the family she was dumped?
I realize that article is old but, it's the second or third I've seen that states that police told her family she was dumped. That seems ....odd. ??
LInk for that story: http://www.myfoxdetroit.com/story/23906588/prosecutors-looking-into-why-renisha-mcbride-was-shot-to-death-in-dearborn-heights

One more thing-- has there been any mention of when police were called after she was shot? Or why he hung up after he called and the 911 operator had to call him back? Was he disconnected? Maybe a dropped call?
Link to hang up:
http://abcnews.go.com/US/renisha-mcbrides-killer-called-911-report-shooting-hung/story?id=20875132

there is a river and some offshooting creeks farther south and west along outer drive and Wafer's home. Is it possible in her disoriented/intoxicated state she wandered a bit through the area in a confused effort get home and perhaps ended up stumbling into or through a creek? Just speculating

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid...ll=42.341734,-83.258471&spn=0.015162,0.030341

 

[greenbean]

there is a river and some offshooting creeks farther south and west along outer drive and Wafer's home. Is it possible in her disoriented/intoxicated state she wandered a bit through the area in a confused effort get home and perhaps ended up stumbling into or through a creek? Just speculating

https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid...ll=42.341734,-83.258471&spn=0.015162,0.030341

I don't know her size, or her tolerance, but I know that I'm a relatively seasoned drinker (I'm 15 years older than she is) and at that BAC (or close to it) I'd be down for the count for a good bit.

I think if she had made it into any of body of water it's likely she'd have been found there. The "dumped" thing is curious but maybe a grieving family just turned "found" into "dumped"? Who knows? I'm not passing judgment because I cannot fathom their position.

This is anecdata but, I have a kid sister who has made some decisions lately that have left my family reeling lately, all involving copious amounts of alcohol. She was hospitalized for a BAC (blood draw) close to Renisha's. Convulsions on her 21st birthday. I don't know the difference between a postmortem draw and a BAC from a living person but, I wonder... I know my sister was in bad, bad shape. I tend to think that Renisha was more likely to have spent those missing hours unconscious on a lawn (soaking up dew and/or rain) then staggering around but, like I said, it's speculative. She could have had a tremendous tolerance.

I'm mostly curious about the angle of the shot. I've read (in a comment on another site so ehhh) that she was shot in the jaw but I read here :http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/11/renisha_mcbride_attorney_i_don.html

The Wayne County Medical Examiner's autopsy report concluded homicide as the cause of death and reflected that 19-year-old McBride suffered a gunshot to her face, the shotgun pellets entering just to the left of her nose.

From the same link:

the shotgun has a safety on it, in order for that gun to go off he would have" had to release the safety.

I don't know much about shotguns, or shotgun safety device-type things or bullet trajectories but--- makes me wonder if that might be what played into the charges.

As always, speculating, speculating.........

 

[Irisha]

there is a river and some offshooting creeks farther south and west along outer drive and Wafer's home. Is it possible in her disoriented/intoxicated state she wandered a bit through the area in a confused effort get home and perhaps ended up stumbling into or through a creek? Just speculating


https://www.google.com/maps/ms?msid...ll=42.341734,-83.258471&spn=0.015162,0.030341

It's the Rouge River. I brought that up a few days ago. She may have wandered down there. Also it rained very hard all day Oct. 31st. Halloween. The ground may have still been very wet.

 

[jjenny]

Maybe they waited for the tox report to see whether she was into hard drugs. Addiction to hard drugs often leads to criminal activity such b&e and robbery. Alcohol not.

Addiction to alcohol does not lead to criminal activity?

 

[Karmady]

I don't know her size, or her tolerance, but I know that I'm a relatively seasoned drinker (I'm 15 years older than she is) and at that BAC (or close to it) I'd be down for the count for a good bit.

I think if she had made it into any of body of water it's likely she'd have been found there. The "dumped" thing is curious but maybe a grieving family just turned "found" into "dumped"? Who knows? I'm not passing judgment because I cannot fathom their position.

This is anecdata but, I have a kid sister who has made some decisions lately that have left my family reeling lately, all involving copious amounts of alcohol. She was hospitalized for a BAC (blood draw) close to Renisha's. Convulsions on her 21st birthday. I don't know the difference between a postmortem draw and a BAC from a living person but, I wonder... I know my sister was in bad, bad shape. I tend to think that Renisha was more likely to have spent those missing hours unconscious on a lawn (soaking up dew and/or rain) then staggering around but, like I said, it's speculative. She could have had a tremendous tolerance.

I'm mostly curious about the angle of the shot. I've read (in a comment on another site so ehhh) that she was shot in the jaw but I read here :http://www.mlive.com/news/detroit/index.ssf/2013/11/renisha_mcbride_attorney_i_don.html



From the same link:




I don't know much about shotguns, or shotgun safety device-type things or bullet trajectories but--- makes me wonder if that might be what played into the charges.

As always, speculating, speculating.........

The autopsy report is linked upthread and confirms the nose area is correct. There's a diagram too

 

[gxm]

but i will add this, i remember a case where someone was dressed up in a halloween costume and went to the wrong house for what he thought was a party, a man shot him claiming basically just that he looked weird and was moving in a strange manner, and he was found not guilty.

he admitted that the guy was not trying to get in the house or attack him, or so close to him as to be an imminent threat, just that he looked really weird and scary.

i dont know what state that was in tho so the particular laws there would obviously have a huge impact on the verdict. (hopefully i have not butchered the details of this case, i think that is pretty close)

There are several cases where a person was shot because they tried to enter the wrong house (Bo Morrison, Brandon Zeth, Billy Kuch). There was one in my area last March, very tragic as it involved a teenager only 16 years old who snuck out of his house to go to a party, got drunk and when he tried to sneak back into his house, he went into a neighbor's house instead. Just heartbreaking.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/drunk-teen-shot-stumbling-wrong-house-father/story?id=18764652

Many years ago, a friend of mine came to visit. At the time, I was in a band and we were practicing in the basement so I told him I'd leave the door open for him. Well, unfortunately, a neighbor on the next pipestem over left his door unlocked too and my friend ended up wandering into the wrong house. The man was furious even though it was broad daylight, my friend was totally sober, completely non-confrontational and very apologetic. After reading about all these cases, I thank the heavens the neighbor didn't have a gun.

I'm of two minds on this particular case. One the one hand, IMO, I can't see a petite woman posing much of a threat to the homeowner. OTOH, I think it is not uncommon for people to be frightened and not thinking clearly when they are awakened in the middle of the night by someone trying to get into their house so I can't say that the homeowner acted unreasonably or with malice. Just a sad, sad case.

 

[Elainera]

Bringing this forward for greenbean and others. Doesn't mention the angle though.

from the autopsy report:

"There was an entrance shotgun wound to the face, with no evidence of close range discharge of a firearm noted on teh skin surrounding the wound. The wound tract passed through the soft tissue and bones of the face and entered the brain. Associated with this injury were skull fractures and bleeding around the brain. The wound track was from front to back and right to left. Multiple pellets and fragments of wad were recovered from the brain and retained."

http://www.documentcloud.org/documents/818001-mcbride-autopsy.html#document/p1

This would SEEM to indicate the shotgun blast entered her face and them bounced around in her skull doing lots of damages and fragmenting as it went.

MOO this makes for a messy scene, where people could make a lot of assumptions that are incorrect and reporters ran with it.

I was also thinking about the angle. Whether he held the shotgun up or it was more loosely in his hand and went of accidentally, as he once claimed. In that case the angle would have been upwards.

 

[liljim]

his claim of the gun going off accidentally went right out the window once we heard the specifics of how the shooting took place. it is still an incomplete picture but from just what we know it is much more unlikely in my mind.


i keep thinking about the 911 call, i think there are two obvious ways to interpret it - either his flat tone and unexcited manner makes you feel he is cold blooded and uncaring, or you think it is more due to him being in shock.

i keep trying to listen to it impartially and i believe it could really be either thing and that bias plays the most important part in how a person interprets it.

hopefully the later call is released where 911 calls him back, maybe that gives more of an indication of his state of mind. i hope it does anyway. (that is where he tells them he does not know the victim, not sure if he says anything else)

 

[Zuri]

Hi Zuri :seeya: The shooting was about three hours after the accident iirc. Doesn't bac peak about 2 hours after ingestion. In that case, her bac at the time of the accident or shortly after (depending on when she left where she'd been drinking) would have been a good bit higher probably within an hour of the accident? Assuming she'd recently left where she'd been drinking when she hit the parked car. In that case, very high during the time period she's unaccounted for.

jmo

Exactly. I forget the math formulation we used to use to approximate the BAC at time of incident. By the time we treated them there BAC was lower due to active metabolism. Her BAC was really high just based on the value itself. If you figure in age, weight, height, health history etc., the elevated BAC is very frightening.

I don't remember where she was said to be drinking. If she was with friends, why didn't they take her keys? She could have killed innocent people, let alone herself. Unfortunately, she ended up dying... JMV :seeya:

 

[CHERIE.T]

I'm still puzzled by 'accidently ' shooting someone in the face. Trying to figure out if that was even a factor.
DID THE SHOOTER EVEN TURN ON AN OUTSIDE LIGHT. just thinking aloud.

 

[blefuscu]

"No evidence of close range discharge of a firearm"

So does that mean there was a distance between the two. So really she was not close enough to him to hurt him? And he shot her in the face!

 

[Zuri]

I just read the aUtopsy report. I understand that the accused stated his gun went off accidentally. I don't know anything about shotguns except for what I have seen on TV. It just seems odd that she was shot just left of center on her face, fracturing her left orbit, nasal bones et al. When I heard the gun went off accidentally, I thought maybe he dropped it or something. Given her height, I am now leaning towards he had this gun aimed at her head, between the eyes. This is just awful.

Was this guy a marksman? If one is aiming a shotgun at a person, do you normally aim at the heart or the head? I don't even know the difference between a shotgun and a rifle. I always hear hunting rifle. Is there a hunting shotgun? Thanks for helping me understand.

 

[liljim]

"No evidence of close range discharge of a firearm"

So does that mean there was a distance between the two. So really she was not close enough to him to hurt him? And he shot her in the face!

close range as its used here means there is no evidence of contact burns or powder burns, which depending on the weapon and the exact circumstances can be as little as inches.

in this case it sounds like he is just inside his open front door and she is within 1-3 feet of the outer screen door, as best as i can tell.