GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

[Karmady]

"No evidence of close range discharge of a firearm"

So does that mean there was a distance between the two. So really she was not close enough to him to hurt him? And he shot her in the face!

When it comes to being shot, the term "close range" is VERY close. Iirc, it is anything farther than contact to about 8 INCHES away. After that it's intermediate range.

jmo

 

[Karmady]

Exactly. I forget the math formulation we used to use to approximate the BAC at time of incident. By the time we treated them there BAC was lower due to active metabolism. Her BAC was really high just based on the value itself. If you figure in age, weight, height, health history etc., the elevated BAC is very frightening.

I don't remember where she was said to be drinking. If she was with friends, why didn't they take her keys? She could have killed innocent people, let alone herself. Unfortunately, she ended up dying... JMV :seeya:

Not a breath about where she was or with whom that I've seen.

 

[liljim]

I just read the aUtopsy report. I understand that the accused stated his gun went off accidentally. I don't know anything about shotguns except for what I have seen on TV. It just seems odd that she was shot just left of center on her face, fracturing her left orbit, nasal bones et al. When I heard the gun went off accidentally, I thought maybe he dropped it or something. Given her height, I am now leaning towards he had this gun aimed at her head, between the eyes. This is just awful.

Was this guy a marksman? If one is aiming a shotgun at a person, do you normally aim at the heart or the head? I don't even know the difference between a shotgun and a rifle. I always hear hunting rifle. Is there a hunting shotgun? Also why would one saw off a barrel of a shotgun? Thanks for helping me understand.

for self-defense you are almost always taught to aim center mass giving you the biggest target possible, so that would be the bottom of the sternum basically.

i have not seen any information regarding his shooting training or proficiency yet.

you would saw off a shotgun to make it easier to conceal and/or quicker to maneuver with. i dont think this one was sawed off was it? i did not hear that. i am not aware of a hunting usage for a sawed off, i think its generally accepted a sawed off shotgun is intended for self-defense or nefarious purposes.

someone set me straight if im wrong here.

 

[Zuri]

Not a breath about where she was or with whom that I've seen.

Most kids her age don't drink alone. So somebody probably "served" her alcohol IMO. I hope her friends that were with her have shared these "details" with the police.

 

[Karmady]

I just read the aUtopsy report. I understand that the accused stated his gun went off accidentally. I don't know anything about shotguns except for what I have seen on TV. It just seems odd that she was shot just left of center on her face, fracturing her left orbit, nasal bones et al. When I heard the gun went off accidentally, I thought maybe he dropped it or something. Given her height, I am now leaning towards he had this gun aimed at her head, between the eyes. This is just awful.

Was this guy a marksman? If one is aiming a shotgun at a person, do you normally aim at the heart or the head? I don't even know the difference between a shotgun and a rifle. I always hear hunting rifle. Is there a hunting shotgun? Thanks for helping me understand.

I believe that LE, for example, are trained to shoot for the torso to stop someone rather than kill them. I seriously doubt he saw a drunk young woman standing on his porch and aimed to blow her face off. I guess anything's possible, but until I hear something about this guy having a history as a violent psychopath, I seriously doubt that he even knew that he had definitely hit her or that it was even a her. In his 911 call he said he "thinks" he shot someone on his porch.

jmo

 

[Zuri]

for self-defense you are almost always taught to aim center mass giving you the biggest target possible, so that would be the bottom of the sternum basically.

i have not seen any information regarding his shooting training or proficiency yet.

you would saw off a shotgun to make it easier to conceal and/or quicker to maneuver with. i dont think this one was sawed off was it? i did not hear that. i am not aware of a hunting usage for a sawed off, i think its generally accepted a sawed off shotgun is intended for self-defense or nefarious purposes.

someone set me straight if im wrong here.

Oh thank you. I just was wondering things out loud about the sawed off question. I am now googling rifle and shotgun.

 

[Tugela]

I doubt this guy is in the habit of shooting people who knock on his door, or even pointing guns at them.

Things to remember about this case is that it happened very early in the morning and that she was extremely drunk at the time. I seriously doubt she would have been "looking for help", it is more likely she was wandering about like a zombie for hours and tried to gain entry to the house.

If someone like came to your house at 4 in the morning and woke you up, and you were armed, you would be scared and prepared to protect yourself and your home. Your finger would be on the trigger and in the heat of the moment is pretty easy to pull that trigger without thinking.

I don't think it is surprising at all that she got shot under the circumstances. Frankly, I would have been more surprised if she WASN'T shot.

I think the only reason this case is being prosecuted is due to recent events down in Florida and the debate about stand your ground.

 

[blefuscu]

Just read through the whole thread and I don't care if she was intoxicated and/or high. When he heard the noises he should have phoned 911 not raced to the door with his shotgun! I'm wondering if, because of the alcohol and crash earlier she was trying to get home to her mom, and thought his house was hers. For him to shoot her, that just sickens me, she wasn't in his house, he could have taken less aggressive action. Did he shout out a warning before he shot? I don't believe the "accidental discharge" either, he shot her in the face. What's the likelihood of a random shot hitting her in exactly the right place to kill her?

 

[blefuscu]

I doubt this guy is in the habit of shooting people who knock on his door, or even pointing guns at them.

Things to remember about this case is that it happened very early in the morning and that she was extremely drunk at the time. I seriously doubt she would have been "looking for help", it is more likely she was wandering about like a zombie for hours and tried to gain entry to the house.

If someone like came to your house at 4 in the morning and woke you up, and you were armed, you would be scared and prepared to protect yourself and your home. Your finger would be on the trigger and in the heat of the moment is pretty easy to pull that trigger without thinking.

I don't think it is surprising at all that she got shot under the circumstances. Frankly, I would have been more surprised if she WASN'T shot.

I think the only reason this case is being prosecuted is due to recent events down in Florida and the debate about stand your ground.

Respectfully I disagree. This is a victim friendly site. She was drunk and confused, she didn't deserve to be shot for that! I'm pleased we don't allow people to keep guns in the UK.

 

[Elainera]

I guess he had not turned on the light otherwise he would not have "thought" that he shot someone, he would have known.

And if it was dark and he was only going by sound he could have meant to fire a warning shot. Maybe that's why he said it was accidentally. Just my speculation.

 

[Karmady]

close range as its used here means there is no evidence of contact burns or powder burns, which depending on the weapon and the exact circumstances can be as little as inches.

in this case it sounds like he is just inside his open front door and she is within 1-3 feet of the outer screen door, as best as i can tell.

Since you seem to know a bit about firearms, can you tell anything from the circumference of the entry wound from the autopsy report? Seems to me that this would be the best indicator of the actual distance of a shot from a
.22.

jmo

 

[Tugela]

but i will add this, i remember a case where someone was dressed up in a halloween costume and went to the wrong house for what he thought was a party, a man shot him claiming basically just that he looked weird and was moving in a strange manner, and he was found not guilty.

he admitted that the guy was not trying to get in the house or attack him, or so close to him as to be an imminent threat, just that he looked really weird and scary.

i dont know what state that was in tho so the particular laws there would obviously have a huge impact on the verdict. (hopefully i have not butchered the details of this case, i think that is pretty close)

In that particular case the kid was shot in the back as well, so he was actually leaving when he got shot.

 

[liljim]

just to clear it up, what he said exactly is "i just shot somebody on my front porch, with a shotgun, banging on my door"

 

[Tugela]

Respectfully I disagree. This is a victim friendly site. She was drunk and confused, she didn't deserve to be shot for that! I'm pleased we don't allow people to keep guns in the UK.

Drunk people act in aggressive and unpredictable ways, so her state of sobriety is extremely relevant. In that state of intoxication she would have seen HIM as an intruder and a threat when confronted, so I seriously doubt that it was a polite or civilized encounter.

I live across the road from a liquor store, and have frequently encountered homeless people drunk out of their minds in the alley or outside late at night. When you confront them and demand that they leave they almost always become aggressive and belligerent. There is typically some combination of shouting, extremely foul language and threats of bodily harm. I can extrapolate from that and reach a conclusion as to how this woman was likely behaving.

 

[Zuri]

Was a Grand Jury convened to weigh the evidence? I wonder what would have convinced the DA to bring charges if there wasn't a GJ. This guy said it was an accident. Isn't that typically a Involuntary Manslaughter charge?

 

[Karmady]

just to clear it up, what he said exactly is "i just shot somebody on my front porch, with a shotgun, banging on my door"

And just to muddy it up again lol. There were two calls. He called and 911 called back. I assume you're taking this from the 911 recording. Can you confirm that and also whether you know for sure this was the first call or the second?

 

[blefuscu]

Drunk people act in aggressive and unpredictable ways, so her state of sobriety is extremely relevant. In that state of intoxication she would have seen HIM as an intruder and a threat when confronted, so I seriously doubt that it was a polite or civilized encounter.

I live across the road from a liquor store, and have frequently encountered homeless people drunk out of their minds in the alley or outside late at night. When you confront them and demand that they leave they almost always become aggressive and belligerent. There is typically some combination of shouting, extremely foul language and threats of bodily harm. I can extrapolate from that and reach a conclusion as to how this woman was likely behaving.

He didn't have to go to the door. He could have phoned 911, said he thought someone was breaking in, and the police could have removed her. It wasn't as if she was in his home. She was outside. He didn't know she was drunk. So he can't use that as an excuse. He shot first and asked questions later. There is no way that she deserved to be shot no matter how she was behaving. There was a locked door between them!

 

[eileenhawkeye]

Drunk people act in aggressive and unpredictable ways, so her state of sobriety is extremely relevant. In that state of intoxication she would have seen HIM as an intruder and a threat when confronted, so I seriously doubt that it was a polite or civilized encounter.

I live across the road from a liquor store, and have frequently encountered homeless people drunk out of their minds in the alley or outside late at night. When you confront them and demand that they leave they almost always become aggressive and belligerent. There is typically some combination of shouting, extremely foul language and threats of bodily harm. I can extrapolate from that and reach a conclusion as to how this woman was likely behaving.

Why do you assume that a 19-year-old teenage girl would behave the same way as homeless people, many of whom have mental illness problems?

 

[Tawny]

"Accidentally" in this instance likely means he had his finger on the trigger and was either startled or for some other reason, his grip tightened. Holding the shotgun is not indication that he intended to shoot anybody. He shouldn't have had his finger on the trigger, IMO, as a safety precaution. However, it was the wee hours of the morning, he was probably groggy and disoriented, and she may have been acting strangely. JMO based on the little bit of info we have so far. Still waiting for more to come out.

BTW, discussing her intoxication is not at all saying she deserved what happened. It is simply discussing how this could have transpired and is not victim blaming in the slightest, IMVHO.

 

[Tawny]

Why do you assume that a 19-year-old teenage girl would behave the same way as homeless people, many of whom have mental illness problems?

She was intoxicated. S/He was discussing intoxicated people, IMO.