GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

[Ina Cognito]

Thank you liljim for posting these. In the Detroit News article, WITNESSES to the MVC stated she was "bloody and disoriented". Why on earth didn't one of these witnesses offer her a blanket and a warm place to sit until the police arrived? IMO this speaks volumes to perhaps the prevailing sentiment of not wanting to get involved. The police were called and apparently told that Reniesha had left the scene so the officers were not dispatched immediately as it was considered low priority. I realize that Detroit and Michigan are in financial straits and may not have the police manpower to investigate every call that comes in immediately. Could this be why Wafer had the gun at the ready? Could he not depend on LE to show up fast enough? To my mind that is implied fear.
I think this horrible incident could have been prevented from the onset. Somebody should have never supplied her with enough alcohol to render her so intoxicated. Somebody should have taken her keys. The witnesses to the accident that saw her TWICE should have offered her shelter, Wafer should have never opened his door. If people had acted in a IMO thoughtful and reasonable manner (coming from where I sit) this girl would not have been shot dead and a man would not be charged with murder. I don't believe Wafer's house was the first door she knocked on. IMO this is a perfect example of people acting irresponsibly from the outset, LE included. All this could have been prevented. Exactly how, I don't know. I think it runs deeper than face value. JMV

Zuri the witness they're referring to is a very young man. I did read a more extensive interview with him and he remarked that when she came back after disappearing he saw her walking away and as she went around the corner he thought of going to get her but, he thought she may be intimidated by him or his friend. He feels absolutely terrible now because he did not react to his gut instinct.

 

[Tawny]

Tawny, I said on other sites. Other sites I've read are really digging at Renisha...blaming her. I did not say or mean this site. Hope that clears that up?

Oh, I know! I was mostly directing it to the statements here in this thread

 

[Ina Cognito]

This article has a bit from one of the witnesses to the accident, LeDerll Hammond.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507893/Pictured-Theodore-Wafer-54-charged-MURDER-Renisha-McBride.html

 

[Ina Cognito]

Oh, I know! I was mostly directing it to the statements here in this thread

Okay, no worries I much prefer this website due to a lack of things I see elsewhere.... questioning her behavior is one thing. Literally sounding as if she is "bad" or is totally to blame for this or attacking her family and their character is distinctly something else We know so little about them or Renisha... I think another case is still in a lot of minds and influencing their thoughts... every case should be approached based on it's own facts etc.

 

[Tawny]

I agree with that. I can't read the comments on the news articles. People are cruel. Regardless what she was doing, she didn't deserve to be shot. I'm trying to have compassion for both her AND the homeowner, at least until more facts come out!

 

[Zuri]

Zuri the witness they're referring to is a very young man. I did read a more extensive interview with him and he remarked that when she came back after disappearing he saw her walking away and as she went around the corner he thought of going to get her but, he thought she may be intimidated by him or his friend. He feels absolutely terrible now because he did not react to his gut instinct.

This article has a bit from one of the witnesses to the accident, LeDerll Hammond.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507893/Pictured-Theodore-Wafer-54-charged-MURDER-Renisha-McBride.html

Thank you for posting this and the news article. I feel badly for this young man and I hope he can get some reassurance from his family, friends or pastor, that he did nothing wrong. It sounds like other neighbors Tried to get her to stay at the scene. I have stopped at my fair share of accidents to render medical assistance and just realized I was holding the witnesses to my standards which was unfair. I have two voice tones, My normal tone and my ER tone. The ER tone is very authoritarian and amazingly people comply. My friends who have heard it rarely are shocked.

My own example is indicative of what may be going through a lot of people's minds. My perception of this tragedy is more widespread, where others may seek to blame the victim or the shooter. We bring our own perceptions and past experiences with us which form our views on things. IMO the lawyers and jury are going to have a tough time, especially the jury. IMO this tragedy is NOT a referendum on race or gun laws. My heart really goes out to all those affected by this. JMV

 

[greenbean]

The porch is really more of a stoop with a few steps leading up to it.

The "thinks" he shot someone now looks like it came from the 911 operator. I had to link to her saying it last night, but can't find it again right now. I'll try. eta: forgot I linked it in post 390

I've noticed the the careful way the msm has worded articles about the DUI records. Nothing I've read said he was ever found guilty of the charges. Have you seen anything that confirms he was convicted. Seriously not quibbling about it since I don't think they matter anyway. Just curious and trying to stay factually accurate. The msm does love to spin things!

I've seen this:

The prosecutor sought a $250,000 bond for the man who was identified as a 10-year worker at Detroit Metropolitan Airport, though the defense noted Wafer has a clean criminal record — except for an old driving under the influence conviction — and a high security clearance at his job.

BBM

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11/15/live-kym-worthy-announces-details-of-renisha-mcbride-investigation/

 

[greenbean]

I thought it would be a pretty weird thing for a defense attorney to mention had he not been convicted. I apologize for linking articles that did not state clearly "conviction" earlier.

 

[Karmady]

I thought it would be a pretty weird thing for a defense attorney to mention had he not been convicted. I apologize for linking articles that did not state clearly "conviction" earlier.

No, seriously. I was just curious. Although really nothing attorneys or the msm surprises me anymore in terms of truthfulness! I have no reason to doubt that he was involved in prior dui's, especially since his ex says he's a drinker but otherwise seems somewhat supportive. I just noticed the way some articles were parsing their words around it. Maybe he has multiple arrests but only one conviction? I didn't mean you SHOULD have linked it. Again, I was just curious

eta: I see you said the DEFENSE attorney mentioned it. Yeah, that would make no sense whatsoever.

 

[Zuri]

I was looking at pics of the house. Karmady, I think you are correct in saying that the "porch" they refer to is more like what I would call a "stoop". It is difficult to make out the screen door, but it looks like a full view screen door with a metal surround. With the screen in, it is hard to knock on those kind of doors. We have one and when you knock, it makes a lot of noise as you have to knock on the borders of the door. It sounds more like banging. The outside light is on the front of the house where the big picture window is. I did not see one by the front door perhaps due to the angle of the picture. I don't know when the pic of the house was taken. There are no leaves on the trees and no crime tape. From another pic, I looked for street lights and was unable to see any. It was raining so there was no moonlight.

If he just opened the door and the gun went off, he would not have been able to determine the reason for Reneisha being there? If he was able to have a dialog with her, he should have been able to put the gun down? If he was cradling the gun, why was it pointed at her head and not upwards? If TW was of the mindset to shoot first and ask questions later, that is going to be a problem IMO. Did he open the door to ask "May I help you?" In order to open the front door, you have to use a hand and maybe a foot. Did he crack the door open or open it all the way? Whatever evidence Kym the DA has, it must have answered some of these questions, enough to charge him. JMV

 

[jjenny]

DA charging someone doesn't necessarily mean DA actually has the evidence to charge that someone with a crime like murder, or that there will be a conviction. Especially in these types of cases.

 

[Ina Cognito]

DA charging someone doesn't necessarily mean DA actually has the evidence to charge that someone with a crime like murder, or that there will be a conviction. Especially in these types of cases.

I agree however, I feel there is a very strong case for manslaughter with just the information we do have. Adding whatever the state has well.... When the case first hit the news I commented to a friend that the homeowner was toast and I still believe he is. I can't figure out the murder 2 charge. This will definitely be a case I follow closely.

 

[Salem]

This thread is for linking to articles, and/or posting of maps or timeline or other resource information.

It is a no discussion thread.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Salem]

There is a media thread here: MI - Renisha McBride, 19, Shot MEDIA/TIMELINE *NO DISCUSSION* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community

Please use it for posting links to articles or other resources that you might want to keep track of.

Thanks,

Salem

 

[Salem]

A few more articles. These are NOT in date order, so please check the dates when reading:

http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11...charges-in-shooting-death-of-renisha-mcbride/


http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11...de-was-drunk-possibly-high-when-fatally-shot/


http://detroit.cbslocal.com/2013/11...ces-details-of-renisha-mcbride-investigation/

 

[Sherp]

I was looking at pics of the house. Karmady, I think you are correct in saying that the "porch" they refer to is more like what I would call a "stoop". It is difficult to make out the screen door, but it looks like a full view screen door with a metal surround. With the screen in, it is hard to knock on those kind of doors. We have one and when you knock, it makes a lot of noise as you have to knock on the borders of the door. It sounds more like banging. The outside light is on the front of the house where the big picture window is. I did not see one by the front door perhaps due to the angle of the picture. I don't know when the pic of the house was taken. There are no leaves on the trees and no crime tape. From another pic, I looked for street lights and was unable to see any. It was raining so there was no moonlight.

If he just opened the door and the gun went off, he would not have been able to determine the reason for Reneisha being there? If he was able to have a dialog with her, he should have been able to put the gun down? If he was cradling the gun, why was it pointed at her head and not upwards? If TW was of the mindset to shoot first and ask questions later, that is going to be a problem IMO. Did he open the door to ask "May I help you?" In order to open the front door, you have to use a hand and maybe a foot. Did he crack the door open or open it all the way? Whatever evidence Kym the DA has, it must have answered some of these questions, enough to charge him. JMV

I can't imagine anyone establishing a dialog or asking "May I help you' in the dark, at 4AM to a bulky figure on the front stoop or try to figure out why they are at our door. Not happening! I think Wafer is way overcharged and it will be a hung jury or not guilty. I do see another defense fund starting up for him. Very sorry this woman died, but bad things happen in the middle of the night.

 

[Ina Cognito]

I can't imagine anyone in Detroit asking "May I help you' in the dark, at 4AM to a bulky figure on the front stoop. Not happening! I think Wafer is way overcharged and it will be a hung jury or not guilty. I do see another defense fund in our future. Very sorry this woman died, but bad things happen in the middle of the night with a .22 Blood Alcohol.

You feel manslaughter is an overcharge as well?

 

[greenbean]

Moon Phase (how much light there was) night Renisha was shot
http://lunaf.com/english/moon-phases/lunar-calendar-2013/11/02/

 

[al66pine]

Witnesses to Ms McBride’s crash – in the early hours of November 2 - said she had been speeding at the time she hit a parked car and a tree on a quiet residential street. One of her relatives previously revealed she had been in at least two other car crashes in the past.
But witness LeDell Hammond, .., says he could not tell if she was drunk. Speaking to MailOnline, ... said: ‘I got back from work a couple of moments after the crash and the girl had walked off. But then she came back and got in her car, before getting back out and walking off again. She did that another two times and it was clear she was very confused and didn’t really know what was going on.
‘If I’m being honest I couldn’t tell if she was intoxicated, it seemed to me she was probably just really confused and really scared. She was only 19 and she was probably terrified about getting in trouble."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507893/Pictured-Theodore-Wafer-54-charged-MURDER-Renisha-McBride.html#ixzz2kx02R57T ​

This witness stated he could not tell if she was intoxicated.

Did she go back into her car three times to retreive something - alcohol? pot? both? something else? - that she ingested later that changed her behavior later?

Or did retreive something, walk away w it,
- change her mind, take it back to car,
- change mind, retreive it, etc.?

If so, it might explain why witness seeing her at accident scene said he could not tell about intoxication and explain her high BAC level ~3 hours later.

Her high BAC level when she was on the front porch
may have caused (or contributed to, along w speculated head injury) erractic behavior the homeowner may have seen.

JM2cts and I may be wrong.

​

 

[greenbean]

Witnesses to Ms McBride’s crash – in the early hours of November 2 - said she had been speeding at the time she hit a parked car and a tree on a quiet residential street. One of her relatives previously revealed she had been in at least two other car crashes in the past.
But witness LeDell Hammond, .., says he could not tell if she was drunk. Speaking to MailOnline, ... said: ‘I got back from work a couple of moments after the crash and the girl had walked off. But then she came back and got in her car, before getting back out and walking off again. She did that another two times and it was clear she was very confused and didn’t really know what was going on.
‘If I’m being honest I couldn’t tell if she was intoxicated, it seemed to me she was probably just really confused and really scared. She was only 19 and she was probably terrified about getting in trouble."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2507893/Pictured-Theodore-Wafer-54-charged-MURDER-Renisha-McBride.html#ixzz2kx02R57T ​

This witness stated he could not tell if she was intoxicated.

Did she go back into her car three times to retreive something - alcohol? pot? both? something else? - that she ingested later that changed her behavior later?

Or did retreive something, walk away w it,
- change her mind, take it back to car,
- change mind, retreive it, etc.?

If so, it might explain why witness seeing her at accident scene said he could not tell about intoxication and explain her high BAC level ~3 hours later.

Her high BAC level when she was on the front porch
may have caused (or contributed to, along w speculated head injury) erractic behavior the homeowner may have seen.

JM2cts and I may be wrong.

​

We know her BAC at autopsy. We do not know her BAC at the time she appeared on Mr. Wafer's porch.

Let's remember that Renisha was dead at the time her BAC was drawn. I think that's relative. I do. I'm sure she was WELL OVER .08. WELL OVER. I do not know that she was at .21 at Mr. Wafer's steps.
http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=320986

Maybe she went back to get the cash found on her person and knocked on his door to ask him to call her a cab? Crikes. If it was my Dad's car I'd be looking for a ride to the airport.