GUILTY MI - Renisha McBride, 19, shot while trying to get help, Detroit, Nov 2013

[Sonya610]

Yes. Control. He wanted to re exert control over what he felt was his shrinking space from annoyance, vandalism, peaceful enjoyment of his own domicile, etc. That is simply MOO.

But it seems many folks HATE him for daring to want to live peacefully in his own small home.

The man works, he likely could NOT move because of his job, he is stuck in an area that is getting more violent all of the time. He lives behind locked doors, his own small yard is invaded and the truck on his driveway is vandalized. His life is slowly becoming hell because of all of the criminals and miscreants that were increasingly encroaching on his small space and folks want to judge HIM harshly. They all say HE wasn't tolerant ENOUGH when his space and home were continually violated.

A few years ago I was living in an area that was becoming increasingly dangerous and it was making me feel on the defensive. I feel very sorry for those good people that find themselves constantly on edge, locking their doors every minute, always thinking THEY could be targets at any time.

This story makes me feel very very blessed that I was able to make a change and move to a safe quiet area a few years ago, when I come home and close the gate it is our peaceful little slice of heaven; I don't lock my doors, I don't lock my cars, I don't have to worry about being harassed by crazy individuals or tolerate them vandalizing my property.

It seems most are saying the way Wafer was living is now the "new normal" and he will be crucified for not being tolerant enough when facing criminals and crazies. And yes I do consider McBride a criminal, she CHOSE to illegally drink and do illicit drugs, she CHOSE to drive while heavily intoxicated risking the lives of others, she CHOSE to leave the scene of an accident after she damaged others property (quite possibly to avoid arrest), and then she CHOSE to demand entry and damage property at the house of an innocent homeowner.

He spent his life doing what he was supposed to do, working hard, minding his own business, following the laws, being respectful towards other people, while her lifestyle and choices were the polar opposite and there is really no doubt that her CHOICES are what lead her to be on his porch that night.

 

[ckrdpast]

But it seems many folks HATE him for daring to want to live peacefully in his own small home.

The man works, he likely could NOT move because of his job, he is stuck in an area that is getting more violent all of the time. He lives behind locked doors, his own small yard is invaded and the truck on his driveway is vandalized. His life is slowly becoming hell because of all of the criminals and miscreants that were increasingly encroaching on his small space and folks want to judge HIM harshly. They all say HE wasn't tolerant ENOUGH when his space and home were continually violated.

A few years ago I was living in an area that was becoming increasingly dangerous and it was making me feel on the defensive. I feel very sorry for those good people that find themselves constantly on edge, locking their doors every minute, always thinking THEY could be targets at any time.

This story makes me feel very very blessed that I was able to make a change and move to a safe quiet area a few years ago, when I come home and close the gate it is our peaceful little slice of heaven; I don't lock my doors, I don't lock my cars, I don't have to worry about being harassed by crazy individuals or tolerate them vandalizing my property.

It seems most are saying the way Wafer was living is now the "new normal" and he will be crucified for not being tolerant enough when facing criminals and crazies. And yes I do consider McBride a criminal, she CHOSE to illegally drink and do illicit drugs, she CHOSE to drive while heavily intoxicated risking the lives of others, she CHOSE to leave the scene of an accident after she damaged others property (quite possibly to avoid arrest), and then she CHOSE to demand entry and damage property at the house of an innocent homeowner.

He spent his life doing what he was supposed to do, working hard, minding his own business, following the laws, being respectful towards other people, while her lifestyle and choices were the polar opposite and there is really no doubt that her CHOICES are what lead her to be on his porch that night.

Color highlight by me…there is NO evidence of this….
Knocking, or banging on someones door does not equal demanding entry
IIRC, the only 'damage' done was to the screen, and I'm pretty sure a shot gun blast through a screen would have caused that damage

I don't excuse Renisha's illegal behavior that night (drinking, drugging, and driving). Consequences for those behaviors should be arrest/jail time…Not Death.

 

[Sonya610]

Color highlight by me…there is NO evidence of this….
Knocking, or banging on someones door does not equal demanding entry

Knocking politely on the FRONT door once or twice is not "demanding entry" but when someone is banging on the front door, then going around the back of the house and banging on the back doors too that is pretty darn demanding! When someone is banging SO HARD they cause the neighbor across the street to come out to see what is going on in the middle of the night that is VERY demanding!

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Yes. Control. He wanted to re exert control over what he felt was his shrinking space from annoyance, vandalism, peaceful enjoyment of his own domicile, etc. That is simply MOO.

As I said, I can see myself having those same emotions prior to watching these cases recently playing out in the press, based on previous experiences and judgments I might come to based on those experiences.

I actually am very thankful that cases such as this have gotten national attention. They have caused me to really look at my own views. The PC ones I geniunely feel. The way I wish things would be or hope I can be, strive towards. And the darker more experience driven ones, that would probably have driven my reactions prior to that examination thanks to this and other recent cases of citizens shot by other citizens.

I hope I do not offend anyone with these thoughts. Just trying to explain why my POV on this one is where it is. I think this man used excessive force in a situation where it was not needed. He may have been scared, mad, or a combination but I feel he made wrong decisions that were not called for and took a life. I feel those actions and decisions were to reasonable and therefore cannot arrive at feeling this was accident or self defense.

You certainly haven't offended me that's for sure nor anyone else who has an opposing opinion from mine. Everyone has a right to state their entitled opinions.

Imo, he truly felt someone was trying to break into his home. I think that is understandable. There was banging on his front door and then his side door and windows. I have never had anyone bang on both of my doors and windows when wanting assistance. They 'knock' or ring my doorbell and respectfully stand there waiting for me to come to the door. I think anyone would have thought the same especially at that time of morning. He wouldn't call out and let the people he thought were breaking in his home know his position inside his home. imo.

I don't see Mr. Wafer as a controlling man at all. He seems rather timid and laid back to me. The reason the state offered for him doing this is ridiculous imo. To get back at someone for paintballing his truck. He if thought that had been a big deal he would have called police to report it back then to get the paintballers in trouble. He didn't, and just washed the paint off of his truck. So "I" found that explanation absurd.

I honestly don't think this would have gotten any attention in the press if it wasn't for the offender being of a different race than the minority victim. Just being honest.

To me the main thing the state did not prove was that he wasn't in fear of his life. There is no other logical explanation other than he WAS afraid that someone was trying to break into his house. All of the evidence shows he was fearful and that is why he shot when Renisha all of a sudden came from his right and then rushed right up at the screen in front of him. I also believe Mr. Wafer when he first opened the door his screen was already damaged at the top. The shotgun blast lower down would not cause damage at the top 7 inches of the screen.

I try to put myself in Mr. Wafer's position knowing how scared and mad someone can be when they think someone is trying to break in to their secure space. Of all places we want to feel secure it is our own home.

Maybe I can relate to Mr. Wafer's panic since we also had a home invader 25 years ago. We did not have to shoot our intruder but if he had moved or lunged an inch after my brother told him to 'freeze' he would be a dead man today and after it was all over even the man knew how close he had come to getting his head blown off. To this day I don't remember loading our shotgun nor taking the safety off before I handed it to my brother but I did and yeah I was also very angry and scared at the same time.

Mr. Wafer had this gun in his home since 2008 and not one time did he use it against anyone in all those years until Renisha came pounding on his doors and windows.

I would have to hang this jury if I was sitting on it for the state did not prove to me in anyway that Wafer didn't feel he was in fear. Imo, he was in fear of his life and this is the only reason he fired his weapon that day. Nothing else makes sense to me. I didn't like the prosecutor in this case. She tried to make Mr. Wafer into some kind of fire breathing monster out to mow some innocent person down. There is not one scintilla of evidence that is the truth. He actually came across as docile even through her constant bashing and twisting his words.

With self defense laws it is all about what the shooter perceived in his/her mind at the time he/she fired their weapon. And without a doubt I believe Mr. Wafer did honestly feel someone was trying to breech the security of his home.

I put up a link earlier and it does show that 2% of armed citizens who fired their weapon were wrong when they thought the victim was a criminal. This 2% includes not only killing but wounded the person. Mr. Wafer is in this teeny tiny minority. However in the same link the police are eleven times (11%) more likely to shoot someone thinking they were criminals when they weren't.

There is such a big deal being made about him finding his cell phone after he shot her. When all of this is happening his brain would be on overload and his thoughts chaotic and unorganized. Once he thought he had eliminated the threat then he brain would calm down some. Hell some people on a normal day cant even find their cell phone or car keys and it can be laying right in front of them in plain site. This was anything but a normal morning for Mr. Wafer.

We have to remember that police are a reactive agency and not a proactive agency. In fact the US Supreme Court has made it very clear that the police have no obligation to prevent crimes from happening. Their role is to investigate crimes that have already occured so that they can hold up in court when an arrest has been made.

One only has a split second to decide what they are going to do. If one hesitates they can die. IF Renisha (and Wafer knew nothing about her) had been one of the many home invaders we are seeing today, where females are used as bait to get the homeowner to open the door, then Mr. Wafer could have been shot and killed within seconds. Just like other homeowners have been when they mistakenly opened up their door to a stranger pretending to want help.

Detroit is a very dangerous city from what I have read. I at least hope that the jury will try to put themselves in Mr. Wafer's place that morning to understand why he reacted like he did. They are told if one explanation is as reasonable as another explanation they are to select the one that favors the defense. I hope they do this for no one will ever convince me that Mr. Wafer was just some gun toting maniac wanting to settle a stupid paintball score.

JMO

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Knocking politely on the FRONT door once or twice is not "demanding entry" but when someone is banging on the front door, then going around the back of the house and banging on the back doors too that is pretty darn demanding! When someone is banging SO HARD they cause the neighbor across the street to come out to see what is going on in the middle of the night that is VERY demanding!

Victimology played a role in this case just like it does in most other cases.

Victimology in its most simple form is the study of the victim or victims. It is defined as "the thorough study and analysis of victim characteristics" (Turvey), and may also be called "victim profiling" (Holmes). The reason a good victimology is important is that the victim constitutes roughly half of the criminal offense, and as such, is as much a part of the crime as the crime scene, weapons, and eyewitnesses.

•Physical traits
•Marital status
•Personal lifestyle
•Occupation
•Education
•Medical history
•Criminal justice system history
•Last known activities, including a timeline of events
•Personal diaries (if known and available)
•Map of travel prior to offense
•Drug and alcohol history
•Friends and enemies
•Family background
•Employment history


http://www.crimelibrary.com/criminal_mind/profiling/victimology/2.html

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Now when you are locked out, and your certain you live here, do you not Holla mom, it's me? Surely, i hope this man gets on the stand cause anyone who thinks they live someplace, you would call for someone, after awhile IMO. Maybe she did not, just common sense to me. Now as for her ending up at his door, that's my only logical explanation also, she may have thought she lived there.

I agree on the cell phone part, in the panic moment, u may not even think about it. But why did he aim for her head??? Why not below, legs etc. Come on wafer!!! We not stupid lol

Sent from my GT-N5110 using Tapatalk now Free

Where she was shot shows me he did not aim at all. He is 6 foot tall and he was up inside the threshold of his home which would rise his position up even higher and Renisha is very short. 5'3' or 5'4 so she would be about a foot below him and when he raised the shotgun her head was in the line of fire.

When she rushed from the right side of his home and then came right up at the door he fired without aiming, imo.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

they are playing his interrogation video, he makes many comments about being mad, "full of piss and vinegar", im sure many jurors took note of that and will consider it when determining if he acted in self-defense and really feared someone was trying to get in, or if he was just acting out of anger. once again, especially now since he did actually take the stand - it all comes down to whether or not the jury finds him believable.

im not making any predictions on this one.

I would like to know from those who have actually experienced an event where they thought that a criminal was breaking into their home where they were happy and not pissed and scared at the same time.

I was totally pissed when I knew a creep had tried to invade the sanctity of our home. It was that anger than gave me and my brother the courage to stop the intruder.

 

[Spellbound]

I have lurked here for a while. It is just my own opinion, but I don't believe this man deliberately aimed to shoot at any specific part of an intruder, nor intended to shoot. I do believe his finger was on the trigger (not a good idea unless you intend to shoot) and a reflex action when he saw movement toward the door caused the trigger to go off. Perhaps his biggest mistake was owning a gun?

I can imagine someone hoping an intruder would go away if he saw the homeowner holding a gun--- another reason he tried to display it? I suspect he did not even remember it was loaded (another mistake made too often with gun owners to store a loaded gun).

Shootings are so common in the Detroit area these days that I would not go there even in the daytime.

 

[Sonya610]

There was banging on his front door and then his side door and windows. I have never had anyone bang on both of my doors and windows when wanting assistance. They 'knock' or ring my doorbell and respectfully stand there waiting for me to come to the door.

Realistically if he had not shot her then she likely would have kept trying to gain access until she DID get in. She either thought she lived there OR thought it was the house of a friend, if she was just looking for "help" at a strangers she would have gone to the NEXT house when she didn't receive a reply, she wouldn't have been fixated on getting into THIS house by continually going from one door to another.

Everyone keeps talking about the "locked front door". I live in a small older house with a very heavy metal front door too, honestly someone could probably pound on it for hours and never make a DENT in it.

The funny thing is right next to the heavy door is a HUGE window that will break extremely easily (I know this because my dogs accidentally smashed out the glass when one put their paws on a chair to look out). The door means NOTHING when there is HUGE fragile easily broken window that would offer instant access and Wafer's home was the SAME WAY! I wouldn't feel the slightest bit "protected" by my locked front door because I know someone could basically "step through" the picture window in a split second!

She was obviously quite determined to get in, she wasn't going to give up, at some point she would likely have decided to break glass to get inside and at that point there wouldn't have been a trial and we wouldn't be discussing this.

 

[tlcya]

Falling Down.

 

[ckrdpast]

Knocking politely on the FRONT door once or twice is not "demanding entry" but when someone is banging on the front door, then going around the back of the house and banging on the back doors too that is pretty darn demanding! When someone is banging SO HARD they cause the neighbor across the street to come out to see what is going on in the middle of the night that is VERY demanding!

Knocking or banging on someone's door commands attention….

Law Enforcement, for example, do not usually ring your doorbell….they knock, bang or pound on your door.

I had a similar experience to Wafers, a few months ago. Difference is, the pounding on my door did not wake me…I was awakened by what I thought were gunshots (it was 3:30 am). Just seconds later, the pounding on the door started. I was scared. I woke my husband and he followed me into the kitchen…I told him DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR, then I grabbed the phone, and went to a window where I could assess the situation. Turns out, it was a neighbor, trying to warn me that there was a house on fire two doors down, and with the wind, my house could be in danger.

The entire episode took just a minute or two, my heart was beating out of chest, and my adrenaline was pumping…yet, I acted reasonably.

Now if someone entered my house, or even if I heard glass breaking…things would have been entirely different.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Oh and btw, when we had our home invader my husband wasn't home and had already left for work. That turned out to be a blessing because I have never seen my husband so angry in all the 31 years we have been together. The thought that a stranger had invaded our home sent him through the roof. Only me, my brother, and my young son were here at the time since it happened at around 5am.

And it took 45 minutes for the police to arrive!!!! So my brother, who had never ever pointed a weapon at anyone in his entire life before this, had to go through the stress of hoping he could contain the b*stard until the police arrived. Now if I had told them when I called 911 that we had shot him then they would arrived in droves quickly.

By the time the police finally did arrive I already knew this man's name, age, DOB, address and the contents of his pockets were on our kitchen table which included a long 6inch switchblade knife.

If my brother hadn't gotten up to go to work when he did and found him no telling what would have happened. I shudder even thinking about it if he had tried to come in when no one was here but my young son and I. I always felt he saw my husband leave for work that morning and didn't know another adult male was in our home.

 

[Sonya610]

I can imagine someone hoping an intruder would go away if he saw the homeowner holding a gun--- another reason he tried to display it? I suspect he did not even remember it was loaded (another mistake made too often with gun owners to store a loaded gun).

That is because folks believe they can use logic and think rationally when under attack (including folks that read these stories and expect others to react rationally and with logic).

People actually think their brain will function normally and they can work out/rationalize things like "Did I leave the gun loaded? Did I chamber a round? My hands are shaking did the round GET chambered or should I check? Is the safety on? What position is the safety supposed to be in? I can't see it the safety it is too dark. Do I need the flashlight from the closet/kitchen" etc....when in fact your brain functions at about 20% capacity when the adrenaline rush hits.

You can't think, you can't rationalize or come up with ideas or analyze situations, you can only ACT in a simple way based on what you have been trained or planned to do. The criminals have already DECIDED what they are willing to do, they already HAVE a plan and the victim is woefully behind playing catch up even under the best of circumstances.

(Needless to say my HD firearms are all set to point and shoot, no wondering about what settings they are on or if I left them chamber loaded).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Knocking or banging on someone's door commands attention….

Law Enforcement, for example, do not usually ring your doorbell….they knock, bang or pound on your door.

I had a similar experience to Wafers, a few months ago. Difference is, the pounding on my door did not wake me…I was awakened by what I thought were gunshots (it was 3:30 am). Just seconds later, the pounding on the door started. I was scared. I woke my husband and he followed me into the kitchen…I told him DO NOT ANSWER THE DOOR, then I grabbed the phone, and went to a window where I could assess the situation. Turns out, it was a neighbor, trying to warn me that there was a house on fire two doors down, and with the wind, my house could be in danger.

The entire episode took just a minute or two, my heart was beating out of chest, and my adrenaline was pumping…yet, I acted reasonably.

Now if someone entered my house, or even if I heard glass breaking…things would have been entirely different.

But what you or I may do over what someone else may do isn't really the point. Many homeowners DO open up their doors when they hear someone knocking or pounding on it. They have broken no laws by opening up the door of their own home whether others think it was a reasonable decision or not.

Look at all the cases lately where people are being targeted by (female/male team) home invaders. Many, many of the victims do open their doors. They even do it without any weapons at all to protect themselves only to be pushed back inside and beaten unmercifully or murdered and even some of the females residents have been repeatedly raped by home invaders. It isn't the homeowner's fault they opened their doors. And a lot of this activity now is happening late at night or early morning.

Mr. Wafer would feel safer opening his door because he had his weapon with him. Those who have survived these kind of attacks now say they are going to buy a firearm to protect themselves incase someone tries it again and we have heard of these kind of criminals targeting the same home more than once because they know the homeowners don't have firearms.

I truly think he thought he could scare away whomever it was by merely showing his weapon like the other 92% armed citizens do who never has to fire a shot. But when Renisha all of a sudden came into his view from the right side and rushed right up in front of him he jumped because it scared him and thought ,rightly or wrongly, that this 'person' was coming into his home.

IMO

 

[Irisha]

I have lurked here for a while. It is just my own opinion, but I don't believe this man deliberately aimed to shoot at any specific part of an intruder, nor intended to shoot. I do believe his finger was on the trigger (not a good idea unless you intend to shoot) and a reflex action when he saw movement toward the door caused the trigger to go off. Perhaps his biggest mistake was owning a gun?

I can imagine someone hoping an intruder would go away if he saw the homeowner holding a gun--- another reason he tried to display it? I suspect he did not even remember it was loaded (another mistake made too often with gun owners to store a loaded gun).

Shootings are so common in the Detroit area these days that I would not go there even in the daytime.

ITA, I'm guessing some of the juror's are from the suburbs. My daughter seems to get called alot for jury duty, so I or her father go to Detroit with her and she never even makes it past sitting in a room all day. That's 1 reason I go to downtown D, and the casino(rarely).

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I have lurked here for a while. It is just my own opinion, but I don't believe this man deliberately aimed to shoot at any specific part of an intruder, nor intended to shoot. I do believe his finger was on the trigger (not a good idea unless you intend to shoot) and a reflex action when he saw movement toward the door caused the trigger to go off. Perhaps his biggest mistake was owning a gun?

I can imagine someone hoping an intruder would go away if he saw the homeowner holding a gun--- another reason he tried to display it? I suspect he did not even remember it was loaded (another mistake made too often with gun owners to store a loaded gun).

Shootings are so common in the Detroit area these days that I would not go there even in the daytime.

ITA with you Spellbound.

FGS., even police officers forget their gun is loaded and the safety is off.

Detroit is not Mayberry RFD.

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Even though this is a "local" case for me (I live in north-suburban Detroit), I haven't followed it as closely as most of you here. I voted in this WDIV survey just now and thought that some might be interested in voting/reviewing the poll, as well.

The jury is deliberating in the case of the Dearborn Heights man who shot and killed a woman on his porch. He says it was in self-defense, but he is charged with second-degree murder. If you’ve been following the trial, what is your prediction for the outcome?

It was self-defense. He will be acquitted.

He will be convicted of second-degree murder.

He will be convicted of manslaughter.

It will be a hung jury.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/

ETA: I voted for manslaughter.

 

[popsicle]

Retweeted by Court Chatter TV
The Trial File @TheTrialFile · 43m

Jurors requesting a laptop (possibly to review police interviews?)<request *may* have to go on record>
Retweeted by Court Chatter TV

The Trial File @TheTrialFile · 30m

Prosecutor Muscat is making a copy of digital information from the case to provide to jurors.


Retweeted by Court Chatter TV
The Trial File @TheTrialFile · 30m

Jurors WILL deliberate tomorrow (Friday) but only from 9:00am-12:00pm
Retweeted by Court Chatter TV
The Trial File @TheTrialFile · 25m

Jury request for laptop approved. There is no wifi in the courthouse so that is not a concern

 

[oceanblueeyes]

Even though this is a "local" case for me (I live in north-suburban Detroit), I haven't followed it as closely as most of you here. I voted in this WDIV survey just now and thought that some might be interested in voting/reviewing the poll, as well.

The jury is deliberating in the case of the Dearborn Heights man who shot and killed a woman on his porch. He says it was in self-defense, but he is charged with second-degree murder. If you&#8217;ve been following the trial, what is your prediction for the outcome?

It was self-defense. He will be acquitted.

He will be convicted of second-degree murder.

He will be convicted of manslaughter.

It will be a hung jury.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/

ETA: I voted for manslaughter.

Good morning Ms. Betty.

I tried your link but I didn't see the poll anywhere? What am I doing wrong?

 

[AnaTeresa]

I would like to know from those who have actually experienced an event where they thought that a criminal was breaking into their home where they were happy and not pissed and scared at the same time.

I was totally pissed when I knew a creep had tried to invade the sanctity of our home. It was that anger than gave me and my brother the courage to stop the intruder.

It's the manner in which he expressed himself that gives me pause. We've defended people who believe they've acted in self-defense, and while there's anger, there's also remorse, there's still fear in their voice when they recount what happens. It's very much a mixed bag of emotions when recounting events. And in my opinion, I don't know if we've seen that here with him.