MI - Ron Kienzle, 63, & Joe Zangaro, 61, fatally shot, St Joseph, 11 July 2016

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jagdpanther3 said:
Yes bailiffs carry. I'M should have been secured though.
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For an escort procedure like this, is handcuffing typically the way to secure inmate? Cuffed in front or back? Or a non-cuff method? TiA.
 
al66pine said:
For an escort procedure like this, is handcuffing typically the way to secure inmate? Cuffed in front or back? Or a non-cuff method? TiA.
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Cuffed in front with belly chain and leg shackles. I work as a CO in a county jail.

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al66pine said:
Forgive me for quoting my own post. Also snipping. Looks like I was wrong about location of events. My apologies.

Per Sheriff Bailey, "...Gordon was in the process of being moved from a holding cell. A fight erupted outside of the cell and the inmate got hold of the gun, shot the deputy and then shot and killed two other bailiffs....it doesn't appear that he was cuffed at the time of the shooting. The sheriff explained that not all inmates would be cuffed in this situation, and he says they had no indication that Gordon would be violent." bbm
http://www.wndu.com/content/news/Em...-at-Berrien-County-Courthouse--386335651.html July 11

Questions about inmate escort procedure.
- Do bailiffs carry firearms? Esp in this county.
- Do deputies/sheriff's employees normally escort inmates to & from jail to ct rm. Or bailiffs? From pix, looks like small red brick bldg across parking lot or st from ct bldg is the Sheriff's office. Is that where co jail is?
-Is 'holding cell' inside ct bldg?

Anyone know? Thx in adv. Thoughts & prayers to all involved.
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Yes, bailiffs are armed. The presser said that the deputy and two bailiffs were escorting the inmate

The county jail is indeed the large building across the street from the courthouse. It sounded like the holding room was inside the courthouse, and a brief hostage situation occurred either inside or near the courtroom itself after the bailiffs were shot.

Presser video link:
http://wsbt.com/news/local/breaking-officer-injured-after-shots-fired-at-berrien-county-courthouse
 
al66pine said:
Forgive me for quoting my own post. Also snipping. Looks like I was wrong about location of events. My apologies.

Per Sheriff Bailey, "...Gordon was in the process of being moved from a holding cell. A fight erupted outside of the cell and the inmate got hold of the gun, shot the deputy and then shot and killed two other bailiffs....it doesn't appear that he was cuffed at the time of the shooting. The sheriff explained that not all inmates would be cuffed in this situation, and he says they had no indication that Gordon would be violent." bbm
http://www.wndu.com/content/news/Em...-at-Berrien-County-Courthouse--386335651.html July 11

Questions about inmate escort procedure.
- Do bailiffs carry firearms? Esp in this county.
- Do deputies/sheriff's employees normally escort inmates to & from jail to ct rm. Or bailiffs? From pix, looks like small red brick bldg across parking lot or st from ct bldg is the Sheriff's office. Is that where co jail is?
-Is 'holding cell' inside ct bldg?

Anyone know? Thx in adv. Thoughts & prayers to all involved.
Click to expand...

Holding cell is inside the courthouse.

He alleged that Gordon used a gun he grabbed from Atterberry, but he declined to try to describe the specifics of that. Deputies said Gordon was in a corridor between the third-floor holding cell and courtrooms, when he attempted to come out of that corridor and capture hostages. That was thwarted when he encountered other officers.
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http://www.mlive.com/news/kalamazoo/index.ssf/2016/07/larry_darnell_gorden_45_identi.html
 
Everyday Grace said:
More updated information:




http://woodtv.com/2016/07/11/ex-wife-ids-berrien-county-courthouse-shooter/
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I feel bad for her, but sorry - he IS a violent person. He murdered two people and was facing sex offences, DV and assault charges. He was no innocent. I understand that as the mother of his daughter she has a certain perspective, but why talk him up when he has selfishly ended two innocent lives? Why, because he didn't want to go to jail? You know what they say, you do the crime you do the time!
 
How does a 45-year-old man get mixed up with the "wrong crowd?" Isn't that an excuse that is reserved for teenagers?

But, let's just SAY that this man was innocent of the multiple felony charges he was facing... what in the WORLD would make him THINK that by killing innocent people... it would all just go away? That he would just magically go home to his family? This tells me that he is 100% Guilty of all the charges he faced. He had no issue doing the crimes, but didn't want to face the consequences. A coward. Am I supposed to feel sorry for the ex-wife? No, she obviously knew what type of man he was because she even said she had a FEELING it was him, but also said she had no advance notice. If you REALLY thought he was not capable of such violence... it would have never even crossed her mind that he was capable of such violence.

R.I.P. to the victims, the families of the victims, friends of the victims and coworkers of the victims.
 
His criminal history hadn't included previous jail breaks, although he had served prison time for fleeing from police.

His rap sheet dates to 1998, with his most recent probation in 2014, but nothing as serious as what happened at the Berrien County Courthouse: escape, kidnapping, a double murder of law enforcement.

In nearby Coloma, Mich., the house where he used to live with his now ex-wife and their children. The couple ran a mobile car wash and detailing business. The company's truck is still parked there. Gordon's ex telling a Grand Rapids TV station that he had mixed with the wrong people.

According to their divorce file obtained by the I-Team, things started going south two summers ago when she filed to get out of their marriage. The divorce became final in late march.
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http://abc7chicago.com/news/who-was-larry-gordon-and-how-did-he-get-a-gun/1423012/
 
Originally Posted by al66pine For an escort procedure like this, is handcuffing typically the way to secure inmate? Cuffed in front or back? Or a non-cuff method? TiA.

jagdpanther3 said:
Cuffed in front with belly chain and leg shackles. I work as a CO in a county jail.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk
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TYVM for answering my question. W/S, what a great site: so may different backgrounds & experiences.

IIRC from an early article (sorry, no link), sheriff said We had no indication he could do this (or become violent? I forgot which, my paraphrasing). Seems puzzling to me, as inmate as facing crim sexual conduct charge, IIRC. And DV, iirc.

Does your co jail require "cuffed in front with belly chain and leg shackles" always/virtually always? Or does it depend on what offense the inmate is charged with and/or behavior while in jail? What about other jails' policies? Anyone? TiA.
 
"This violence at the courthouse wasn't predictable by anything in the public record retrievable Monday night.
But could it have been preventable had these recommendations been embraced? The recent "Steps to Best Practices for Court Building Security" published by the National Center for State Courts recommends: "The transport officer closest to the prisoner should be armed with an intermediate weapon, i.e. Taser or baton."
It states that only the secondary officer should be carrying a firearm." * bbm
http://abc7chicago.com/news/who-was-larry-gordon-and-how-did-he-get-a-gun/1423012/ July 11

"TOPIC B-8: IN-CUSTODY DEFENDANTS" starts at page 47 of
http://cdm16501.contentdm.oclc.org/...facilities/id/153/filename/154.pdf/mapsto/pdf
paragraph " 5: Assign a second CSO or transport deputy to escort an in-custody defendant and clear a pathway. The transport officer closest to the prisoner should be unarmed; the other officer should be armed."

^ Not the verbatim wording in abc7 link. Maybe it is in another area of this report or in a different report. IDK.

A bit O/T: Pages 45 & 46, paragraph 22 rec. that armed officers at public screening station, that is the ct-bldg entry for public, should use triple retention holsters.


__________________________________________________________

http://www.ncsc.org/Services-and-Ex...anning-and-security/Steps-and-Guidelines.aspx

http://cdm16501.contentdm.oclc.org/...facilities/id/153/filename/154.pdf/mapsto/pdf
Guidelines for Implementing Best Practices in Court Building Security
Costs, Priorities, Funding Strategies, and Accountability pub date 2010.

A second report starts at page 35.
STEPS TO BEST PRACTICES FOR COURT BUILDING SECURITY pub date Jan 2010.
 
Berrien County sheriff: Suspect was handcuffed when he disarmed deputy in courthouse

Larry Gordon kills 2 bailiffs, wounds deputy, woman

By Halston Herrera - Digital news editor

Posted: 8:11 AM, July 12, 2016

ST. JOSEPH, Mich. - An inmate who shot multiple people in a southwestern Michigan courthouse did so by disarming a deputy, despite being handcuffed in the front, authorities say.

Berrien County Sheriff Paul Bailey said Tuesday morning that the suspect, Larry Gordon, disarmed the deputy as he was being escorting to a hearing on a domestic violence charge.

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/...dcuffed-when-he-disarmed-deputy-in-courthouse
 
'Unbelievable': Shooter kills two at Berrien County Courthouse

Chad Livengood, Francis X. Donnelly and Candice Williams, The Detroit News 7:22 a.m. EDT July 12, 2016

...Gordon, 45, of Coloma, was attempting to escape while in custody of a deputy, whom he shot, Bailey said.

“It doesn’t appear he was cuffed at the time of the incident,” the sheriff said, later adding: “Not everybody who goes into the courtroom is handcuffed.”...

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../shooting-berrien-county-courthouse/86955776/
 
:confused: Wish someone would get this right! :gaah: Was the inmate handcuffed in the courtroom or not :confused:
 
Also a bit clearer this morning:

Gordon was being taken back to the county jail after a hearing in the courtroom when the event occurred.

His hearing was for a misdemeanor domestic assault charge.

An inmate shot and killed two Berrien County Courthouse bailiffs Monday after wresting a gun from a sheriff’s deputy in a hallway scuffle following a hearing over a misdemeanor domestic violence charge, according to a judge.

Berrien County Circuit Judge Charles LaSata said Monday it was “just an ordinary day” when a defendant left his courtroom escorted by a sheriff’s deputy and was headed back to the county jail at about 2:25 p.m.

Within moments, LaSata said he could hear a scuffle and shouting in an adjoining hallway as he watched his bailiff run out of the courtroom without his gun drawn.

“My bailiff, as he was running to the danger to protect me and everybody in my courtroom, he did not yet have his gun drawn and it couldn’t have been more than five to 10 seconds after he went through that door from my courtroom that I heard the two shots,” LaSata said Monday in an exclusive interview with The Detroit News. “He ran back to the secure area and was killed.”

“The second bailiff heard the shot, the two shots fired, and then he came running and he was also killed,” the judge said.
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Bailey said Larry Gordon “was in custody for several charges.”

LaSata said Gordon was in his courtroom on a domestic violence charge, which the county prosecutor was seeking to have dismissed because of “very serious felony charges” he was facing.

State police records say Gordon was charged in April with criminal sexual conduct, assault with a dangerous weapon and kidnapping.
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More:
http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne.../shooting-berrien-county-courthouse/86955776/

Something else I've seen clarifled today is that Gordon and his ex-wife were a couple for 19 years and today would have been their ten year anniversary.

Not sure if that's relevant, but thought I wouldid mention it as 19 years married wasn't ringing true for me.

http://www.freep.com/story/news/loc...aced-kidnapping-sex-assault-charges/86975894/
 
Michigan courthouse shooter's ex-wife saw no indication of attack

Jessica Gordon says suspect was probably afraid of going to prison

Posted: 6:55 AM, July 12, 2016
Updated: 8:32 AM, July 12, 2016

Mich. - The ex-wife of a western Michigan inmate authorities say shot and killed two bailiffs in an attempt to escape tells a television station that she spoke with him Sunday and had no indication he was planning an attack.

Jessica Gordon tells WOOD-TV that her ex-husband, Larry Darnell Gordon, was "an amazing man that got mixed up with the wrong people." ...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan-courthouse-shooters-ex-wife-saw-no-indication-of-attack
 
BetteDavisEyes said:
Michigan courthouse shooter's ex-wife saw no indication of attack

Jessica Gordon says suspect was probably afraid of going to prison

Posted: 6:55 AM, July 12, 2016
Updated: 8:32 AM, July 12, 2016

Mich. - The ex-wife of a western Michigan inmate authorities say shot and killed two bailiffs in an attempt to escape tells a television station that she spoke with him Sunday and had no indication he was planning an attack.

Jessica Gordon tells WOOD-TV that her ex-husband, Larry Darnell Gordon, was "an amazing man that got mixed up with the wrong people." ...

http://www.clickondetroit.com/news/michigan-courthouse-shooters-ex-wife-saw-no-indication-of-attack
Click to expand...

Well, I don't know? Maybe if you're afraid to go to prison, don't commit crimes that would send you to prison? Seems reasonable to me?
 
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