MI - Samantha Woll, a Detroit synagogue president, fatally stabbed *Arrest*

[Izzylizzy]

When is time up?

jmo

It was Sunday when it was reported that he was arrested.
I don't know the time and if it's calculated to the minute/hour?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

clock is ticking. they will need to charge him or release him. Waiting anxiously for updates.

No update or new information on WDIV news at noon. All that was said is "awaiting charges", which we already knew.

 

[ch_13]

In this situation, I think he did himself a disservice by not explaining himself. He made the first mistake by volunteering an ambiguous statement then clamming up. He bought himself a ride in a police car, three days in jail and cloud of unnecessary suspicion.

Of course, we don't know what he said or did that drew the cops' suspicion.

But if all they had was a rather anodyne statement about feeling guilty and they used that as an excuse to throw him in jail without even completing their investigation, then I think he was right to not say anything further. That's an awfully flimsy premise and suggests that the cops would have twisted anything he said against him. Who knows what they could have dragged out of him after an hours-long interrogation?

It certainly wouldn't have been the first time the police were able to elicit a false confession with aggressive interrogation tactics. (The Central Park 5 come to mind.)

 

[tlcya]

The first man who was arrested in connection with Woll's murder, an acquaintance, was released after 48 hours, the longest period police in Michigan may hold suspects without charging them.
Police: New evidence prompted arrest of 'person of interest' in Woll death

If this new suspect has been in custody since Sunday they are bumping up today sometime on that 48 deadline I would think. If they do not charge him sometime today I think they will be forced to let him go, as they had to with their last POI.

ETA, actually depending on what time they took him in to custody and if they have to factor the fact it was a Sunday when they took him into custody or not, they may be overdue. MOO

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

If the person of interest was taken into custody on Sunday night, hasn't it already been more than 48 hours? Maybe the time has been extended due to the fact that there has been a warrant sent to the Prosecutor for review. IIRC, that did not happen in the case of the initial male taken into custody and then released.

 

[Inthedetails]

If the person of interest was taken into custody on Sunday night, hasn't it already been more than 48 hours? Maybe the time has been extended due to the fact that there has been a warrant sent to the Prosecutor for review. IIRC, that did not happen in the case of the initial male taken into custody and then released.

I am guessing that the clock started on Monday, that Sunday "didn't count" since it's not a workday. Perhaps that's a reason they arrested on the weekend, to give themselves a bit more time.

But....why do they need the time???

jmo

 

[ifindedout]

Elephant in the room: Maybe Michigan should change its laws so that a suspect can be detained for a longer (but still finite) period of time.

 

[Inthedetails]

Elephant in the room: Maybe Michigan should change its laws so that a suspect can be detained for a longer (but still finite) period of time.

Or, don't arrest until you know for sure the suspect can be charged.

jmo

 

[PalmerPark]

It's frustrating to see the media (and people on here) talking about "48 hours" as if that is some legal requirement in Michigan to either charge or release a suspect -- it is not. In fact, there is no general law in Michigan that specifies the amount of time a suspect can be held (there are exceptions for certain instances that are not relevant here--like probation violations, protection orders, and so forth). The Supreme Court has held that a suspect can be held for a "reasonable" amount of time. Some states have laws that say how much time (Michigan does not) and there are various grounds that those time limits can be extended. Generally speaking, in the absence of a specific law, 72 hours is considered the rule of thumb, but again even that can be extended. So, if someone has been held for 71 hours and charges have been submitted to the prosecutor for review, the suspect isn't necessarily entitled to be released within the next hour if the prosecutor hasn't made a decision.

Source: How long can the police hold me without charging me?

 

[BetteDavisEyes]

Or, don't arrest until you know for sure the suspect can be charged.

jmo

For sure. "Catch and Release" is ridiculous and reeks of incompetence on the part of LE. JMO

 

[PalmerPark]

Elephant in the room: Maybe Michigan should change its laws so that a suspect can be detained for a longer (but still finite) period of time.

There's no law in Michigan that says how much time a suspect can be held, so there's no law that needs to be changed. People keep parroting the line "48 hours" but that's not a thing.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Michigan Law link was in this Nov.10,2023 piece on suspect release.

Suspect in Samantha Woll killing released without charges, his attorney confirms

A 72-hour window to hold the man, who was close with Woll, ended with no charges filed

www.freep.com

(3) An individual temporarily detained under subsection (1) shall not be detained longer than 72 hours, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays, without a court hearing to determine if the temporary detention should continue.'

more

MCL - Section 333.5207 - Michigan Legislature

www.legislature.mi.gov

 

[PalmerPark]

Michigan Law link was in this Nov.10,2023 piece on suspect release.

Suspect in Samantha Woll killing released without charges, his attorney confirms

A 72-hour window to hold the man, who was close with Woll, ended with no charges filed

www.freep.com

(3) An individual temporarily detained under subsection (1) shall not be detained longer than 72 hours, excluding Saturdays, Sundays, and legal holidays, without a court hearing to determine if the temporary detention should continue.'

more

MCL - Section 333.5207 - Michigan Legislature

www.legislature.mi.gov

That public health law does not apply whatsoever to this situation. Yes, the article links to that (which is inaccurate) but it does not specifically discuss the governing law. Feel free to do your own research, but trust that this public health code provision does not apply to the detainment of murder suspects outside of a public health emergency. The fact that the suspect has already been detained for more than 72 hours should tell you enough.

 

[Inthedetails]

I see conflicting info about how long MI can detain suspects, but holding a suspect indefinitely is ripe for rights violations, imo. We don't pull people off the street and stick them in cell "just because." Maybe in Detroit they do? Yikes, I hope not.

I was thinking, like @BetteDavisEyes said, that this better not be another catch-and-release situation.

But, to continue that theme, there comes a time to fish or cut bait.

jmo

 

[PalmerPark]

I see conflicting info about how long MI can detain suspects, but holding a suspect indefinitely is ripe for rights violations, imo. We don't pull people off the street and stick them in cell "just because." Maybe in Detroit they do? Yikes, I hope not.

I was thinking, like @BetteDavisEyes said, that this better not be another catch-and-release situation.

But, to continue that theme, there comes a time to fish or cut bait.

jmo

The time to "cut bait" isn't when charges/warrant has been submitted to the prosecutor's office for review. For all we know though the suspect has already been released on a tether (or not). It really doesn't make much of a difference, and as I said above, the "rule of thumb" (as established by US Supreme Court precedent) is a "reasonable" amount of time -- generally 72 hours, which can be extended due to various reasons.

 

[Izzylizzy]

That public health law does not apply whatsoever to this situation. Yes, the article links to that (which is inaccurate) but it does not specifically discuss the governing law. Feel free to do your own research, but trust that this public health code provision does not apply to the detainment of murder suspects outside of a public health emergency. The fact that the suspect has already been detained for more than 72 hours should tell you enough.

Gezz, I didn't even notice the "Public Health Code" part. Thank You!
Shoddy journalism.

 

[Inthedetails]

The time to "cut bait" isn't when charges/warrant has been submitted to the prosecutor's office for review. For all we know though the suspect has already been released on a tether (or not). It really doesn't make much of a difference, and as I said above, the "rule of thumb" (as established by US Supreme Court precedent) is a "reasonable" amount of time -- generally 72 hours, which can be extended due to various reasons.

What I mean is that LE either has to charge or let the guy go. The thought of someone being held until "whenever" is abhorrent, imo. I'm not understanding arresting someone without being able to charge after days, though I don't need to be reminded there could be a reason....but we don't know if there is a reason.
jmo

 

[PalmerPark]

What I mean is that LE either has to charge or let the guy go. The thought of someone being held until "whenever" is abhorrent, imo. I'm not understanding arresting someone without being able to charge after days, though I don't need to be reminded there could be a reason....but we don't know if there is a reason.
jmo

No one is suggesting that he should be held indefinitely. It looks like police have held him for a reasonable amount of time while preparing charges for the prosecutor's office's review. This is not egregious fishing expedition, if that's what you're alluding to/worried about.

 

[Dotta]

What I mean is that LE either has to charge or let the guy go. The thought of someone being held until "whenever" is abhorrent, imo. I'm not understanding arresting someone without being able to charge after days, though I don't need to be reminded there could be a reason....but we don't know if there is a reason.
jmo

It reminds me of a saying from Communist era of my country:

"Give me a man and I will find a paragraph"


JMO

 

[tlcya]

It's frustrating to see the media (and people on here) talking about "48 hours" as if that is some legal requirement in Michigan to either charge or release a suspect -- it is not. In fact, there is no general law in Michigan that specifies the amount of time a suspect can be held (there are exceptions for certain instances that are not relevant here--like probation violations, protection orders, and so forth). The Supreme Court has held that a suspect can be held for a "reasonable" amount of time. Some states have laws that say how much time (Michigan does not) and there are various grounds that those time limits can be extended. Generally speaking, in the absence of a specific law, 72 hours is considered the rule of thumb, but again even that can be extended. So, if someone has been held for 71 hours and charges have been submitted to the prosecutor for review, the suspect isn't necessarily entitled to be released within the next hour if the prosecutor hasn't made a decision.

Source: How long can the police hold me without charging me?

PalmerPark said:
There's no law in Michigan that says how much time a suspect can be held, so there's no law that needs to be changed. People keep parroting the line "48 hours" but that's not a thing.

thank you for clarifying. I was taking it on faith that articles specifying 48 hours were accurate. [SQWAK]