Michelle Young. Murdered Pregnant Mom, NC Part 14

[Mama-cita]

Sami,

I have a question for you - not sure how to word it properly but here goes:

Is it possible to determine from the dialation of the pupils of a deceased person the conditions surrounding the death ? What I am getting at is if the person were awake and in a lit room - the pupils would be relatively small having adjusted to the light. If a person was attacked in the dark, theoretically the pupils should be near fully dialated. Or does death actually effect the pupils to the point that no determination could be made?

Does that make any sense ? See what I am getting at ? Thanks Sami - curious George moment.:crazy:

RC - I am not Sami, but as a nurse I can provide you with an answer.
Pupils would immediately dilate after brain death. I would think there would be nothing to determine anything else. I see exactly where you are going, since pupil size is related to light, you were wondering could we tell if Michelle was murdered in the dark, etc, at least I think what you are getting at but, of course I could be very wrong, but to answer your question, when you "buy the farm" your pupils will be fixed and dilated...

This is the closest I could find to a link describing this, it is from an MD answering techinical questions for mystery writers:http://books.google.com/books?id=5ZXt-aJlmX4C&pg=RA1-PA273&lpg=RA1-PA273&dq=pupils+dilate+death&source=web&ots=u1RLy-Ea4V&sig=Sa2iLveWvBUV3aMrv5d9yE3RjcI

Also, the only reason pupils would not be fully dilated at death would be possibly due to drugs or medication causing constriction. This (pupil dilatation) is a reflex that occurs because all the muscles of the body have relaxed completely which is why if you ever see a corpse, there eyes look almost completely black because of how large their pupils are.

Sorry if I offended any one by being too graphic or anything...

 

[scandi]

Watching Shark on CBS, a great lawyer show with very interesting cases every weeK!

I heard two statements on this weeks show that made my ears perk up:

1} "The case is circumstantial; they have to make it a slam dunk!

2} "As soon as the kid became a material witness, they had to seperate him from the father."

Hmmmmmmm

 

[Mama-cita]

It's going to be
BOLD I hope, like:

HUSBAND ARRESTED


Oh Yea! Should be about ready to bring it on, don't 'cha think?

GIRLFRIEND?!?!?! YAYA!?!?!? You gave me a heart attack, as I was scrolling the page all I saw was:
HUSBAND ARRESTED
...and I THOUGHT HE WAS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Whew, my blood pressure went up a bit, I think, I thought the old JayBird was about to have to PAY THE PIPER!!!!!

 

[jilly]

Watching Shark on CBS, a great lawyer show with very interesting cases every weeK!

I heard two statements on this weeks show that made my ears perk up:

1} "The case is circumstantial; they have to make it a slam dunk!

2} "As soon as the kid became a material witness, they had to seperate him from the father."

Hmmmmmmm

I love that show!! Did you see one of the first episodes where they had that CTV past host (Ricki Klingman or whatever) as the Judge? hehe I missed it tonite - rented The Departed.

Scandi, just wanted to add - I'm so sorry to read at the other place your experience with domestic violence. Glad you are here to tell about it! :blowkiss:

 

[Samiya]

Perhaps the reference is to Outside the Box.

Yes, you're right RC.

Someone said in LR that they had been pm'ing OTB and that he was an insider only because he worked with Jason in the pharm job. This person then goes on in 'her' post that she asked him about the 7:30am call to Meredith and 'he' replied that he had no facts and that it was just a timeline he worked out himself. OTB apparently told this person that he had intentions of being an FBI agent before he got 'sidetracked'.

Usually I don't post details of other posts, especially those from LR almost in entirety but I thought that this one in particular needed to be brought to attention due to the 'information' he gave out in ctv.

Oh....my reference to "Beverley" is that when you hover over the iggy button in LR for johngo and look in the bottom of your browser bar (where it usually shows the loading page).....he doesn't show up as 'johngo'. He comes up as 'Beverley'. This is the only way to see if someone changed their display name, lol.

I discovered that one because I was going to put him on iggy, but noticed it said "Beverley" at the bottom. I changed my display name to Bella Mafia but if you hover over the iggy button for me, I show up in the bottom browser bar as "Sami". :crazy:

Sami

 

[Samiya]

Sami,

I have a question for you - not sure how to word it properly but here goes:

Is it possible to determine from the dialation of the pupils of a deceased person the conditions surrounding the death ? What I am getting at is if the person were awake and in a lit room - the pupils would be relatively small having adjusted to the light. If a person was attacked in the dark, theoretically the pupils should be near fully dialated. Or does death actually effect the pupils to the point that no determination could be made?

Does that make any sense ? See what I am getting at ? Thanks Sami - curious George moment.:crazy:

Hi 'Curious George',

Unfortunately the shortest answer is no.

Shortly after death the pupils become fixed and are dilated as they can no longer react to light. They also become dull as they begin to lose moisture. Around 15 hours later the corneas become milky.

With Michelle's case, due to the injuries she sustained, she would most likely have suffered brain death before her heart stopped beating and pumping blood, so her pupils would have become dilated and fixed before 'final' death.

Warning: trivia
Singer David Bowie is an example of a person who suffered a brain injury that rendered a pupil unreactive to light. He has two different eye colours due to an injury when young. His normal irises colour were blue, but due to the injury the left eyes iris appears a brownish/green but the pupil of that eye is permanently dilated. The sight in that eye was affected to the point where he can see with that eye but most of the colour vision is gone and a brownish tone is present.

Pic here: http://i176.photobucket.com/albums/w200/whydoisurvive/davidbowieartystazdjecie5brf3h.jpg

Hope this helps

Sami

 

[raisincharlie]

RC - I am not Sami, but as a nurse I can provide you with an answer.
Pupils would immediately dilate after brain death. I would think there would be nothing to determine anything else. I see exactly where you are going, since pupil size is related to light, you were wondering could we tell if Michelle was murdered in the dark, etc, at least I think what you are getting at but, of course I could be very wrong, but to answer your question, when you "buy the farm" your pupils will be fixed and dilated...

This is the closest I could find to a link describing this, it is from an MD answering techinical questions for mystery writers:http://books.google.com/books?id=5ZXt-aJlmX4C&pg=RA1-PA273&lpg=RA1-PA273&dq=pupils+dilate+death&source=web&ots=u1RLy-Ea4V&sig=Sa2iLveWvBUV3aMrv5d9yE3RjcI

Also, the only reason pupils would not be fully dilated at death would be possibly due to drugs or medication causing constriction. This (pupil dilatation) is a reflex that occurs because all the muscles of the body have relaxed completely which is why if you ever see a corpse, there eyes look almost completely black because of how large their pupils are.

Sorry if I offended any one by being too graphic or anything...

Thank you Mama-cita and Sami as well. Interesting link ! Appreciate the information - and you guessed it, that is where I was going but didn't know exactly how the eyes would react. These Curious George moments get the best of me. For some reason I just don't think this murder was accomplished in the dark. Anyone have a really good idea or theory which side of the house the master bedroom was on (front or back) ? Guess it doesn't matter much, just studying, again.

Thanks again experts !

Sami - you sure hover over things alot but I'll not go back to the green dot blue dot thing !

 

[Kadie]

Is Beverly his (gojo) wife's name? I thought I read that somewhere?! Could be wrong.... I noticed that Beverly name yesterday too as I looked at gojo's profile and was searching for his postings.

 

[scandi]

It figures, Kadie, as we could tell there was more than one Gojo! I didn't like what I heard that poster say yesterday on the other site, that JY is now smiling and happier, coming out of his doldrums as he evidently got some good news. I guess he mowed Gojo's yard in the last few days.

Think it is a red herring as usual, so don't take it as truth. Just keeping you posted!~ Scandi

 

[jilly]

It figures, Kadie, as we could tell there was more than one Gojo! I didn't like what I heard that poster say yesterday on the other site, that JY is now smiling and happier, coming out of his doldrums as he evidently got some good news. I guess he mowed Gojo's yard in the last few days.

Think it is a red herring as usual, so don't take it as truth. Just keeping you posted!~ Scandi

Who said this Scandi - I missed it.

 

[caffeinatd]

Who said this Scandi - I missed it.

Johngo at LR- yesterday 928pm post, at the bottom after he talks about bikinis and calif. trip

 

[jilly]

Johngo at LR- yesterday 928pm post, at the bottom after he talks about bikinis and calif. trip

Thanks caffeinatd! I'll mosey over!

Tennisbuff just posted at CTV saying he asked a detective friend (another county) why he thinks JY wouldn't be arrested yet. He said something like there's likely a big part of the story LE knew which could be good for JY.

I'm not liking the sounds of this today.

.

 

[Barney Fife]

Thanks caffeinatd! I'll mosey over!

Tennisbuff just posted at CTV saying he asked a detective friend (another county) why he thinks JY wouldn't be arrested yet. He said something like there's likely a big part of the story LE knew which could be good for JY.

I'm not liking the sounds of this today.

.

I like TB, but she is "programmed" as an attorney. She said she talks to his younger sister every week (never about the case). I call BS on that. I doubt seriously she talks to her every week. She knew nothing about the older sister and has not seen JY in > 14 years, but she is so close to the younger sis she talks every week ?

She lives in Winston -Salem where there is ZERO coverage or interest in the case. A homicide detective there would also know ZERO about this case. I would not put any stock into him saying they must have something that looks good for JY.

 

[scandi]

Thaks Barney for clarifying that. I know TB means well, but it is so easy to have a viewpoint shift from the facts if there is a close connection which pushes it along.

Do you have any concerns Barney as to why it is taking so long to pop this husband?

 

[scandi]

Thanks Caffeinatd for clarifying that for our Jilly gal! LOL I about fainted when I read that!

 

[jilly]

I like TB, but she is "programmed" as an attorney. She said she talks to his younger sister every week (never about the case). I call BS on that. I doubt seriously she talks to her every week. She knew nothing about the older sister and has not seen JY in > 14 years, but she is so close to the younger sis she talks every week ?

She lives in Winston -Salem where there is ZERO coverage or interest in the case. A homicide detective there would also know ZERO about this case. I would not put any stock into him saying they must have something that looks good for JY.

Thanks for that Barney - I don't know what could look good for JY anyways. Even if LE did know, they sure wouldn't be sharing it with JY.

Went and read at LR. gojo certainly cockey last nite what with JY returning to his old self & chopping wood. If true, my first thought on the good news was maybe he got a job.

 

[caffeinatd]

Thanks for that Barney - I don't know what could look good for JY anyways. Even if LE did know, they sure wouldn't be sharing it with JY.

Went and read at LR. gojo certainly cockey last nite what with JY returning to his old self & chopping wood. If true, my first thought on the good news was maybe he got a job.

jason and an ax in my yard would make me extremely nervous...JMOO :loser:

 

[raisincharlie]

jason and an ax in my yard would make me extremely nervous...JMOO :loser:

Me too, an axe in Johngo's hands would make me nervous as well.

 

[raisincharlie]

I like TB, but she is "programmed" as an attorney. She said she talks to his younger sister every week (never about the case). I call BS on that. I doubt seriously she talks to her every week. She knew nothing about the older sister and has not seen JY in > 14 years, but she is so close to the younger sis she talks every week ?

She lives in Winston -Salem where there is ZERO coverage or interest in the case. A homicide detective there would also know ZERO about this case. I would not put any stock into him saying they must have something that looks good for JY.

:clap: :clap:

The Tooth Fairy ? That comment was, well, priceless !!! Good one !

 

[Samiya]

Me too, an axe in Johngo's hands would make me nervous as well.

Axes in their hands would have me a double barrel in mine!

Sami