Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[wolfdogg]

Exactly, makes total sense. The best scenario I've ever read and thought about. The purposefulness of breaking porch light and purse line-up suggests (to me) this wasn't the perp(s) first rodeo and the perp(s) liked order.

Larry Hall lived in chaos (with his parents) but during a kidnapping/murder he was meticulous when it came to details such as leaving no physical evidence but..... you bring something in with you and you take something out, everywhere you go.

In this case, the lack of physical evidence, is behavioral evidence. Any thoughts?

Yes, exactly. I've thought the same. It was just too perfect and Larry was a nut about being "clean".. scratching notes about it and everything.
Curious what your thoughts are about his brother, Gary? In the one book, Gary talks about how Larry would slip away out of the tents after everyone was asleep at the enactments, and be gone for hours. On video, Gary seems sincere about not approving of his brother, but his brother seems to have always trusted him with everything. I've always been on the fence if Gary was that naive (doesn't seem to fit his personality) or if he was just looking the other way, knowing what kind of person Larry really was (for the murders Larry did commit, rather or not he is ties the 3MW) - or if he was maybe even involved many times? Even Gary's old Facebook page seems to be over the top with his "goodness" (though maybe he really was innocent of everything). https://www.facebook.com/gary.hall.796569

 

[wolfdogg]

COOL...... I've seen a couple of photos (of course) but you must have enlarged them? I can't tell except it looks like a small 'square' shaped porch with one step up to the landing. Not a lot of room to maneuver.

I went by several times in the week following the incident.. joined the search parties and such as well. I have always wished I would have snapped my own pics but did not. The one I have though looks accurate to the 2:02 mark in this video. http://www.ozarksfirst.com/news/decades-old-evidence-may-be-future-of-missing-women-case

This case was always so personal to me. I dated a girl who was a good friend (I was 22 at the time) and have met so many people who knew them over the years.. and I've always thought how I could have drove right past them as my job at the News Leader always had me driving down right past their house, down Glenstone to go home at 3 to 6am.

 

[Talullah]

Twenty-five years ago no one knew they'd still be missing so they probably dismissed a lot of things as meaningless. I don't suggest detectives were sloppy but who wants to think the worst?
We don't know detectives didn't find anything. Surely they had a reason to say Sherrill was the target, it was sexually motivated and the perp spent a good amount of time at the scene but the only indication (we know of) that something was wrong is the glass Mike swept up. If Janelle hadn't been to the Delmar house before and didn't examine the glass, (who would??) she assumed it was the globe-and that's logical, but it could've been anything. The light was so close to the door it would've been easy to bump and break moving in furniture. It's far-fetched but with this anything is possible.
I don't understand why, after all this time, LE can't/won't release more information. If the perp hasn't grown a conscience in the last 25 years a confession is unlikely.

 

[TexasT]

Smashing glass on women in the middle of the night gets the Police called on you , not the door being opened . And potentially more witnesses attracted . Probably the last thing that happened .

Hall may not be ruled out , but consensus seems to like Jessie Rush & Marvin Chaney better then hall for Hammond & Kenney disappearances .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wolfdogg]

Smashing glass on women in the middle of the night gets the Police called on you , not the door being opened . And potentially more witnesses attracted . Probably the last thing that happened .

Hall may not be ruled out , but consensus seems to like Jessie Rush & Marvin Chaney better then hall for Hammond & Kenney disappearances .


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Smashing glass on women? I mentioned the that globe was likely unscrewed and dropped from a few feet to create a bit of noise.. but not much... enough to arouse curiosity. I know if I heard a glass break outside my front door, I'd be pretty likely to open it up to investigate. Human nature. If he knocks, no answer for sure. This was the smart move and where this house was located, there were no witnesses to attract. I'd bet my paycheck that's how he got in.

 

[Kittycat01]

I may be in the minority here but I don't think the women attempted to take their purses with them during the abduction. Obviously I have never been in that situation (thank God) but I can't imagine that if someone was in my home, in the middle of the night, brandishing a weapon (I have to assume some sort of weapon was involved, I can't imagine corralling and abducting 3 grown women unless a weapon of some kind was involved), the last thing I would be thinking about would be my purse.

Stacy's shorts were left behind, obviously she had gotten ready for bed. Would she grab her purse and not put her shorts back on? I would put my shorts on before grabbing my purse. I personally feel the purses were lined up in a row because the perp/perps were looking for something. Money, drugs, valuables, information, who knows? Does anyone know about the contents of the women's purses? Was anything missing?

 

[Kittycat01]

The broken front porch globe is truly a mystery. As a woman, if I heard breaking glass on my front porch at 3:00 in the morning I would never, ever, open the front door, I would call 911. Except unless I was expecting someone I knew and trusted. If I was expecting someone I knew, I might think they accidentally dropped a bottle or something, otherwise, no way would I open the door upon hearing glass breaking. But that is me. I'm a middle aged cautious woman who reads Websleuths too much. LOL. When I was 18, who knows?

 

[nugat81]

I may be in the minority here but I don't think the women attempted to take their purses with them during the abduction. Obviously I have never been in that situation (thank God) but I can't imagine that if someone was in my home, in the middle of the night, brandishing a weapon (I have to assume some sort of weapon was involved, I can't imagine corralling and abducting 3 grown women unless a weapon of some kind was involved), the last thing I would be thinking about would be my purse.

Stacy's shorts were left behind, obviously she had gotten ready for bed. Would she grab her purse and not put her shorts back on? I would put my shorts on before grabbing my purse. I personally feel the purses were lined up in a row because the perp/perps were looking for something. Money, drugs, valuables, information, who knows? Does anyone know about the contents of the women's purses? Was anything missing?

Depends on who it was. If he was pretending a cop ("I'm taking you to a safe place under the Witness Protection Program" or something similar --upcoming testimony of Susie), then, if he pretended well, they could naturally think about taking their purses. Or if a good ruse was in place and eg someone they/one of them knew came.

 

[chestnut&bypass]

I personally feel the purses were lined up in a row because the perp/perps were looking for something. Money, drugs, valuables, information, who knows? Does anyone know about the contents of the women's purses? Was anything missing?

We know something in the neighborhood of $800 cash was still in Sherrill's purse....and all three sets of keys and all three cars left behind. Robbery can almost certainly be ruled smooth out.

 

[wolfdogg]

The broken front porch globe is truly a mystery. As a woman, if I heard breaking glass on my front porch at 3:00 in the morning I would never, ever, open the front door, I would call 911. Except unless I was expecting someone I knew and trusted. If I was expecting someone I knew, I might think they accidentally dropped a bottle or something, otherwise, no way would I open the door upon hearing glass breaking. But that is me. I'm a middle aged cautious woman who reads Websleuths too much. LOL. When I was 18, who knows?

It's funny how reading these sites can have that effect, isn't it?! I'm a middle aged guy and it even makes me think about everything all the more and be far more suspicious of every situation. When I was in my 20s, I never even locked my door.

I will say that a woman is less likely to open a door.. but I also think that there being 3 women in the home and a dog.. graduation night. It makes anyone feel a little safer. I imagine a scenario of looking through the blinds after the noise.. trying to figure it out.. waiting a while.. even if it's 10/15 minutes. Nothing else.. they finally decide it's safe to look.. nudged open the door just a hair to peek.. and that's all it took. Just speculation of course but I feel there's a good reason there's uncleaned glass there and it just seems to really fit the bill. Even if I'm a messy housekeeper, if I come home and see broken glass, cleaning it up is one of the first things I would do so nobody accidentally gets hurt.

 

[TexasT]

The broken front porch globe is truly a mystery. As a woman, if I heard breaking glass on my front porch at 3:00 in the morning I would never, ever, open the front door, I would call 911. Except unless I was expecting someone I knew and trusted. If I was expecting someone I knew, I might think they accidentally dropped a bottle or something, otherwise, no way would I open the door upon hearing glass breaking. But that is me. I'm a middle aged cautious woman who reads Websleuths too much. LOL. When I was 18, who knows?

Exactly my point . I don't think the OP is a female based on that line of thinking .

 

[TexasT]

It's funny how reading these sites can have that effect, isn't it?! I'm a middle aged guy and it even makes me think about everything all the more and be far more suspicious of every situation. When I was in my 20s, I never even locked my door.

I will say that a woman is less likely to open a door.. but I also think that there being 3 women in the home and a dog.. graduation night. It makes anyone feel a little safer. I imagine a scenario of looking through the blinds after the noise.. trying to figure it out.. waiting a while.. even if it's 10/15 minutes. Nothing else.. they finally decide it's safe to look.. nudged open the door just a hair to peek.. and that's all it took. Just speculation of course but I feel there's a good reason there's uncleaned glass there and it just seems to really fit the bill. Even if I'm a messy housekeeper, if I come home and see broken glass, cleaning it up is one of the first things I would do so nobody accidentally gets hurt.

Question : where did JK& MH get the broom from ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[wolfdogg]

Exactly my point . I don't think the OP is a female based on that line of thinking .

I'm a male but when I first arrived at this conclusion, it was when sitting down with a friend of Stacy's.. a girl in her graduating class about 5 years after this happened who knew her well and therefore, many of our discussions went this way. We actually thought of it together while discussing this night and I posed this exact question to her. "Would you have opened the door if you heard something break?" She immediately said "oh hell yeah. Graduation night, hanging out with friends, and maybe I just had a couple beers to celebrate? I wouldn't have even hesitated. I would have thought someone followed me from the party and was messing with us." I also had an 18 year old niece live with me and I can tell you for fact, she would have this same attitude. There's zero fear when I discuss being careful and "what happens out there". I don't suspect these are one-offs. I suspect the attitude is quite common among teens. Now maybe Mom would have been a different story (maybe not though) ? But maybe Mom is hanging out in the bathroom. I don't know but this is certainly plausible and again, it fits the crime scene perfectly.

 

[wolfdogg]

Question : where did JK& MH get the broom from ?

?? The front door was left wide open and it's been reported that there was a broom nearby that Mike used to sweep with. I don't know if it was inside or outside though, if that's what you're asking.

 

[marble]

I may be in the minority here but I don't think the women attempted to take their purses with them during the abduction. Obviously I have never been in that situation (thank God) but I can't imagine that if someone was in my home, in the middle of the night, brandishing a weapon (I have to assume some sort of weapon was involved, I can't imagine corralling and abducting 3 grown women unless a weapon of some kind was involved), the last thing I would be thinking about would be my purse.

No, I agree also that my guess isn't that the women attempted to take their purses.

Here is what I think happened once he(they?) were in the house-

He acted as though this was a simple robbery in order to get control. Most women's first response when someone approaches them with a weapon is going to be to hope the assailant takes their money/purse/phone etc. and then leaves them alone unharmed. And in a lot of muggings that's exactly what happens. I think he ordered the women to go retrieve their purses and told them if they gave him what he wanted they wouldn't get hurt. I think they complied. He may have never touched the purses themselves. He may have then instructed one of the women to tie up the the other two under the pretext that he was going to tie them up so he'd have time to get away before they called the cops. This has happened in other home invasion or burglary situations. Of course, that wasn't really his plan for them. But if they'd known what his real plan while they were still able to run/fight there would have likely been signs of a struggle, because chances would have been good at least one of the women would have tried to run for help or fight.

The crime scene photos show the purses neatly lined up. Articles say the purses were found at the top of the stairs. But in an interview Stacy's mother explains she took Stacy's purse away from the house for a time and brought it into her car, because she thought Stacy had gone off without telling her and she wanted Stacy to come back and find her purse gone as a form of punishment. I also feel like I read somewhere that family/friends who came by the house worried about where the three could be went through some of the purses looking for clues (I could be wrong on that). I guess I'm curious about that "purses all lined up" detail, and whether what the photos showed was a recreation of exactly how the purses were first found or not.

 

[marble]

I'm a male but when I first arrived at this conclusion, it was when sitting down with a friend of Stacy's.. a girl in her graduating class about 5 years after this happened who knew her well and therefore, many of our discussions went this way. We actually thought of it together while discussing this night and I posed this exact question to her. "Would you have opened the door if you heard something break?" She immediately said "oh hell yeah. Graduation night, hanging out with friends, and maybe I just had a couple beers to celebrate? I wouldn't have even hesitated. I would have thought someone followed me from the party and was messing with us." I also had an 18 year old niece live with me and I can tell you for fact, she would have this same attitude. There's zero fear when I discuss being careful and "what happens out there". I don't suspect these are one-offs. I suspect the attitude is quite common among teens. Now maybe Mom would have been a different story (maybe not though) ? But maybe Mom is hanging out in the bathroom. I don't know but this is certainly plausible and again, it fits the crime scene perfectly.

Yup. I was about their age at the time this happened and I would have done the same thing. Especially on graduation night where kids could be toilet papering each other's houses, making drunk booty calls etc. etc.

 

[shadowdancer]

Smashing glass on women in the middle of the night gets the Police called on you , not the door being opened . And potentially more witnesses attracted . Probably the last thing that happened .

Unless you look out of the window to see who made the noise (the blind was parted, suggesting this happened), and the person you see out there was somebody that you know and trust.

I think they did open the door, either because they saw somebody they trusted out there or they simply waited a while after the noise and thought the person had gone. I think the more likely scenario is that they felt safe because they knew the person.

 

[marble]

Unless you look out of the window to see who made the noise (the blind was parted, suggesting this happened),

It needs to be clarified (because I thought this at first too, that the blinds that open to the front were parted) but it was Suzie's blinds, and her room was in the back. So the front entrance isn't visible from the parted blinds.

 

[shadowdancer]

It needs to be clarified (because I thought this at first too, that the blinds that open to the front were parted) but it was Suzie's blinds, and her room was in the back. So the front entrance isn't visible from the parted blinds.

That's even more interesting. Perhaps there were noises around the back of the house too.

 

[TexasT]

?? The front door was left wide open and it's been reported that there was a broom nearby that Mike used to sweep with. I don't know if it was inside or outside though, if that's what you're asking.

It was . Because JK testified they cleaned up the mess THEN entered . Which could suggest the broom May have Been on the porch already . IF that was the case it's plausible the globe had Nothing to do with the abductions all at .

Example :
Girls get home and light is burned out . They attempt to change it and drops globe . ( remember stu stories about " spacey Stacey ?). Decide to clean up in the morning . Leave broken glass and broom out .


This is all speculating, but so are the other theories .

I get ppl focusing on globe since all other possible physical evidence was destroyed by 10-18 people . But may end up being a red herring .

Because unless gloves were worn there should have been touch DNA present if not prints. We've all replaced these deals and you have to hold it to loosen the three set screws that retain the globe .