Missouri - The Springfield Three--missing since June 1992 - #7

[wolfdogg]

I still don't believe drugs had anything to do with it. From everything I've read, Larry Hall just fits this crime to a tee. I live in Springfield and have followed this case from Day 1. I've spent so many hours. I still drive by the home and just sit there and think about it. I'd give anything to give Janice McCall some peace.

The only factoid I can't find for sure.. I've heard Larry did a reenactment this same weekend in Pleasant Hope, Mo. (about 30 minutes from Springfield). He has admitted that he would normally drive through college towns after being done with these. Did that really happen? I've spotted it online twice but I can find any facts that he actually attended such an event in Pleasant Hope (though it is a big Civil War town and they have had reenactments there). If he was there, this was almost certainly his work.

 

[wolfdogg]

I have now spent a bunch of time reading old articles and watched the 48 hours special that was filmed within a few days of the three going missing, so I'm getting a little more caught up to where I should be.

One article had a detective stating early on that his pet (heh) theory was that it was a stranger who rang the doorbell and he had the dog with him- the ruse being he had found the dog running loose. If the dog had been let out that night it's as good a theory as any I guess.

I'm also not convinced all of the doors into the home were locked. I think it's possible that either one or more of the doors wasn't locked by accident or habit, or that in their emotionally tired and slightly buzzed (perhaps) state the girls didn't check to make sure that the door was locked behind them when they entered late that night.

As an aside- I (obviously) spend way too much time reading up on cases like this, I am not naive, and I live in the middle of a large urban environment in a city neighborhood that has at least the average amount of violent crime for its size, and yet I'll sometimes fall asleep on the couch with our back sliding door open, and there have been a number (like, more than 5) times someone in our house, myself included, have come in late at night and locked the front door and deadbolt behind us *and left the keys just dangling there in the lock outside* all night.

I know I'm often guilty of discounting scenarios based on "logic" without actually taking into account the vagaries of human error, chance, and coincidences. I'm trying not to do that here, but it's tough not to with so little to go on and so many possible red herrings.

It happens.

I've always felt confident the perp entered by breaking the light cover. He simply unscrewed it and dropped it on the porch to make them all wonder "what was that?". He just chilled over to the side of the porch until their curiosity got the best of them and they opened to peek.. probably waited several minutes as I'm sure the sound made the girls nervous. It perfectly explains why the globe was broke over from the light but the light was still working. It's better than knocking, because they probably never answer if they're completely scared and asking "who's there?" and having nobody answer.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

Thank you for clearing up the van sightings and I have also read where the porch lady's siting didn't go with the time line.
Time line.....I don't recall the sighting's timeline. Would love to know it though, Please share

Okay, exiting from Kentwood, traveling north...on Campbell? then took a left onto Grand. Not much out there in '92 except the airport and cemeteries. Good call on their 'exit' route. Glenstone has always been more traveled, as in more sightings possible.

I wish we knew if it was a decisive turn or 'last minute' action. Campbell and Grand has a traffic light, were they lucky and got a green light? Did it appear the driver knew the area well? Or did he swerve / jerk the wheel as though it was a last minute decision?

I'm thinking the porch lady was the one who claimed it was Susie driving and heard a man's voice from the back. And would the porch lady's 6 a.m. siting work if the other sightings were false?

Sorry to be so full of questions but we have to look at all possibilities. A van of course would be the best possible vehicle in this situation. I suppose LE checked out every owner (in the surrounding area) of #1.to include a van #2. then went to Dodge van owners. Did anyone rent a van for that weekend etc.

So many questions I have, thanks for reading them and feel free to answer some :thinking:

 

[marble]

Grand would have led out to the Rogersville area where an infamous crime family lived and plied their trade which included drugs, murder, dismemberment and burning of the bodies where their ashes would be deposited in a nearby creek. Memory has it that six people in total were murdered there.

What is the name of this crime family? I'm interested in reading more background on them. Thanks.

 

[wolfdogg]

Thank you for clearing up the van sightings and I have also read where the porch lady's siting didn't go with the time line.
Time line.....I don't recall the sighting's timeline. Would love to know it though, Please share

Okay, exiting from Kentwood, traveling north...on Campbell? then took a left onto Grand. Not much out there in '92 except the airport and cemeteries. Good call on their 'exit' route. Glenstone has always been more traveled, as in more sightings possible.

I wish we knew if it was a decisive turn or 'last minute' action. Campbell and Grand has a traffic light, were they lucky and got a green light? Did it appear the driver knew the area well? Or did he swerve / jerk the wheel as though it was a last minute decision?

I'm thinking the porch lady was the one who claimed it was Susie driving and heard a man's voice from the back. And would the porch lady's 6 a.m. siting work if the other sightings were false?

Sorry to be so full of questions but we have to look at all possibilities. A van of course would be the best possible vehicle in this situation. I suppose LE checked out every owner (in the surrounding area) of #1.to include a van #2. then went to Dodge van owners. Did anyone rent a van for that weekend etc.

So many questions I have, thanks for reading them and feel free to answer some :thinking:

You should read 'In With the Devil' and 'Urges: A Chronicle of Serial Killer Larry Hall' (both on Amazon). It will really open up the amount of questions you have (and answer a few I suspect). The first doesn't talk about the Springfield 3 but it paints a picture of Larry's protocol being exactly what happened here (and that's why I'm still trying to figure out if he was indeed at a nearby reenactment this same weekend as I have read online) and the latter deals with the 3 a lot.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

SAME HERE on the porch light being a purposeful move vs a 'sign of a struggle'.

And the perp(s) never even went into the house hence zero evidence there and everything (cigs, $ etc) was left behind.
It is the only scenario that 'fits' the lack of evidence.

And even with the glass swept up the kids would know how big the pieces were, as in had they been walked in (small shards, crushed) was there blood in the glass etc. The kids 'swept up the glass'.....no mention of picking up larger pieces.

Yes, definitely agree with the globe being broken on purpose. Could petite women have enough 'force' to break something that far up? Did any of them know Tai Kwon Do? Was one trying to kick their captor(s)?

:thinking:

 

[MooseMeMuch]

Same here. The motorcycle gang? Something 'goose'?

 

[MooseMeMuch]

I have read "In With the Devil".....I have it right beside me in fact, library doesn't want it back yet. ha
....sigh...the more answers I get the more questions I have. LoL
And as far as I've gotten in "Urges", he didn't give 'The 3" much room but I'll reread it, seems he had a couple of facts 'wrong'.

We're definitely on the same page though

 

[wolfdogg]

I have read "In With the Devil".....I have it right beside me in fact, library doesn't want it back yet. ha
....sigh...the more answers I get the more questions I have. LoL
And as far as I've gotten in "Urges", he didn't give 'The 3" much room but I'll reread it, seems he had a couple of facts 'wrong'.

We're definitely on the same page though

Right on. Nice to meet another who's doing the required reading. No.. you're right.. not a lot of room even in the 2nd. I just meant that at least it was talked about. I was disappointed that In With the Devil never did. Larry's bro, Gary, said the map their Dad burned had 22 (I believe) marks for DB (dead bodies) and some were in Missouri.

 

[Missouri Mule]

I still don't believe drugs had anything to do with it. From everything I've read, Larry Hall just fits this crime to a tee. I live in Springfield and have followed this case from Day 1. I've spent so many hours. I still drive by the home and just sit there and think about it. I'd give anything to give Janice McCall some peace.

The only factoid I can't find for sure.. I've heard Larry did a reenactment this same weekend in Pleasant Hope, Mo. (about 30 minutes from Springfield). He has admitted that he would normally drive through college towns after being done with these. Did that really happen? I've spotted it online twice but I can find any facts that he actually attended such an event in Pleasant Hope (though it is a big Civil War town and they have had reenactments there). If he was there, this was almost certainly his work.

I checked on this just now and was informed that he had been ruled out. I will look further later on.

 

[wolfdogg]

SAME HERE on the porch light being a purposeful move vs a 'sign of a struggle'.

And the perp(s) never even went into the house hence zero evidence there and everything (cigs, $ etc) was left behind.
It is the only scenario that 'fits' the lack of evidence.

And even with the glass swept up the kids would know how big the pieces were, as in had they been walked in (small shards, crushed) was there blood in the glass etc. The kids 'swept up the glass'.....no mention of picking up larger pieces.

Yes, definitely agree with the globe being broken on purpose. Could petite women have enough 'force' to break something that far up? Did any of them know Tai Kwon Do? Was one trying to kick their captor(s)?

:thinking:

The globe was taken off because it was broken away from the light, so unscrewed. It was one of those old cheap lights that looks to have 3 little screws holding it in.. where you take one screw out and it comes off. I think he's standing there.. looking around for something to make a little noise with.. but not a lot of noise and he sees that and thinks 'perfect'. He doesn't bash out the light because he doesn't want the whole porch to go black. They might never open that door.

I think he/they went in. It explains why the purses were all together. They were freaking out, trying to stall.. saying they need this or that, someone reaches in a purse and the perp instantly realizes someone could have a weapon.. so he forces all 3 to bring their purses over and put them together before reaching in for anything. Just a hypothesis but can't really think of another good reason those would be all together and lined up. If you're 3 scared women, you're going to go over and set them right next to one another in a line, if someone tells you to put them all together. If they came in and put them all in the same place of their own accord after a night out, they're not going to be lined up nicely.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

pg. 49 "Urges..."
It was the porch light detail that was different..."When police arrived....all seemed normal. The only oddity was the porch light. It was laying pieces."

No, the kids had already swept the glass up. Well known fact but maybe Martin was just trying to shorten the scenario. Just gives me pause.

 

[wolfdogg]

It was just the globe. I have a picture of the house from right after. The door was solid, no windows (like today) and the light bulb was still in tact.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

The globe was taken off because it was broken away from the light, so unscrewed. It was one of those old cheap lights that looks to have 3 little screws holding it in.. where you take one screw out and it comes off. I think he's standing there.. looking around for something to make a little noise with.. but not a lot of noise and he sees that and thinks 'perfect'. He doesn't bash out the light because he doesn't want the whole porch to go black. They might never open that door.

I think he/they went in. It explains why the purses were all together. They were freaking out, trying to stall.. saying they need this or that, someone reaches in a purse and the perp instantly realizes someone could have a weapon.. so he forces all 3 to bring their purses over and put them together before reaching in for anything. Just a hypothesis but can't really think of another good reason those would be all together and lined up. If you're 3 scared women, you're going to go over and set them right next to one another in a line, if someone tells you to put them all together. If they came in and put them all in the same place of their own accord after a night out, they're not going to be lined up nicely.

Good thought on the purses and it makes total sense. And yes, a woman's instinct is to grab their purse if going somewhere, in fact they feel 'naked' w/out at least their pocket book.

"Forces all 3".....so easy to hold a gun (or knife) on one person while the others comply. Good call.

 

[wolfdogg]

yeah.. and the Mom being a noted chain smoker, I think a stressful situation, and trying to restore a sense of normality during a moment of chaos like this, you might say, "I need a cigarette" and reach for one without even thinking it through.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

yeah.. and the Mom being a noted chain smoker, I think a stressful situation, and trying to restore a sense of normality during a moment of chaos like this, you might say, "I need a cigarette" and reach for one without even thinking it through.

Exactly, makes total sense. The best scenario I've ever read and thought about. The purposefulness of breaking porch light and purse line-up suggests (to me) this wasn't the perp(s) first rodeo and the perp(s) liked order.

Larry Hall lived in chaos (with his parents) but during a kidnapping/murder he was meticulous when it came to details such as leaving no physical evidence but..... you bring something in with you and you take something out, everywhere you go.

In this case, the lack of physical evidence, is behavioral evidence. Any thoughts?

 

[nugat81]

If someone ordered me to leave the flat, my first instinct would be to grab my handbag. Great post. The intruder was experienced, calm, meticulous, analytical. I can almost hear his slow ordering voice.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

It was just the globe. I have a picture of the house from right after. The door was solid, no windows (like today) and the light bulb was still in tact.

COOL...... I've seen a couple of photos (of course) but you must have enlarged them? I can't tell except it looks like a small 'square' shaped porch with one step up to the landing. Not a lot of room to maneuver.

 

[MooseMeMuch]

If someone ordered me to leave the flat, my first instinct would be to grab my handbag. Great post. The intruder was experienced, calm, meticulous, analytical. I can almost hear his slow ordering voice.

Exactly

 

[kat913]

Anybody know much about the building on corner of Delmar/Glenstone? Robertson's Antique gallery?

Also the lay of the area behind this building in relation to the women's backyard? How long had they lived there? How new was the pricvacy fence? Any entrance to their backyard from this area?

Thanks!