MISTRIAL - Sidney Moorer on trial for the kidnapping of Heather Elvis #5

[Madeleine74]

Only 1 of those items was for him so of course he wanted to select just the right thing. The $.88 pregnancy test... not a concern except for probably being the cheapest they had. And think about this: what woman wants to have to do *more* work than necessary to take a preg test. The one he selected required the use of a clean cup, dropper and all that. Compare that to the EPT type test. Think TM would have been pleased with his choice if that test really had been for her?

 

[poppygirl]

On the SYNC module - I have a new SUV fully loaded with all the latest gagetry (not a Ford).

There was recently a recall, where I had to go to manufacturer website, download something on a USB drive and then plug the USB into my car's USB and upload. Piece of cake - I joked that it's the first time I ever fixed my own car!

Point being, I know I can easily connect my car to my computer via USB (directly) heck even wirelessly since it's wireless enabled. I'm sure deleting data if I wanted to wouldn't be a big deal.

Chrysler recalled all vehicles with its 'sync' software last year because there was a hole in the software that would allow another person to take control of the car remotely. This would allow them to do anything from change your radio station to disabling your breaks.

Computers are powerful tool and easily manipulated by someone who wants to. No doubt in my my mind that Sid tampered with his.


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[poppygirl]

Also note - you can likely delete the data without removing the actual module...it's all software with files, just like on your computer.


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[Madeleine74]

Also note - you can likely delete the data without removing the actual module...it's all software with files, just like on your computer.

exactly!

 

[poppygirl]

The pregnancy test and cigar, IMO, were to lure Heather into his truck. He had no intention of ever having her take the test. He showed it to her when they met and the cigar he bought to celebrate so she'd think this was a happy moment for him. She willingly got into his truck where I'm convinced TM was hiding in the back.

I don't think this is a complicated story. We won't have definitive answers to much of what happened that night.

Why was she at LBs? Who knows. Maybe that was a spot they used to meet up. Maybe she was going to suggest they meet there...maybe he persuaded her to go to PTL when they spoke. We may never know but I don't believe anything happened there except Heather waiting. This is a young woman who had slept in her car before. She clearly wasn't afraid to be in it alone in the middle of the night.


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[TTF14]

Guys, I've come up with a scenario, based on the timeline, that involves three people. I posted it in in the Evidence thread: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...VIDENCE-Pro-and-Con-2&p=12660010#post12660010

 

[TTF14]

The pregnancy test and cigar, IMO, were to lure Heather into his truck. He had no intention of ever having her take the test. He showed it to her when they met and the cigar he bought to celebrate so she'd think this was a happy moment for him. She willingly got into his truck where I'm convinced TM was hiding in the back.

I don't think this is a complicated story. We won't have definitive answers to much of what happened that night.

Why was she at LBs? Who knows. Maybe that was a spot they used to meet up. Maybe she was going to suggest they meet there...maybe he persuaded her to go to PTL when they spoke. We may never know but I don't believe anything happened there except Heather waiting. This is a young woman who had slept in her car before. She clearly wasn't afraid to be in it alone in the middle of the night.


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The sticking point for me is his phone being turned on at 3AM when it had been off for over a week and he previously called her from a payphone. I believe his phone was turned on to place him AT HIS HOME during that time frame. (Not sure why it wasn't turned on hours prior to that though).

 

[bestill]

If the State is preparing for TM's trial they would have her cell phone records, correct? Maybe they know something we don't but can't use it yet. And this is why they are sticking with PT landing being where she was abducted.

I still think that more happened at LB, I keep thinking about the two circles, the bigger one and the smaller one. Why would anyone sit by a dumpster to wait in the wee hours of the morning, she had the entire parking lot to park in. Makes no sense to me.

 

[poppygirl]

The sticking point for me is his phone being turned on at 3AM when it had been off for over a week and he previously called her from a payphone. I believe his phone was turned on to place him AT HIS HOME during that time frame. (Not sure why it wasn't turned on hours prior to that though).

Or he'd given up. Heather had refused to meet him so their plot was foiled. They went home and he turned on his phone. Much to his surprise and evil glee...Heather calls back with a change of heart. 'I'm at LBs' or 'I just left LBs' she says...'can you meet me there?'

'What about PTL?' He replies...'Wife will never find us there.'



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[poppygirl]

If the State is preparing for TM's trial they would have her cell phone records, correct? Maybe they know something we don't but can't use it yet. And this is why they are sticking with PT landing being where she was abducted.

I still think that more happened at LB, I keep thinking about the two circles, the bigger one and the smaller one. Why would anyone sit by a dumpster to wait in the wee hours of the morning, she had the entire parking lot to park in. Makes no sense to me.

I would imagine such a person could be hiding from the crazy wife of her former lover who she is hoping to meet up with.


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[Madeleine74]

I don't think this is a complicated story. We won't have definitive answers to much of what happened that night

My thoughts as well.

In most cases the story ends up being something a lot simpler than what people imagine it to be. The human mind loves a good story and creative imaginations endeavor to create one in the gaps. The truth is usually much more mundane and with fewer steps.

In this case we know that at 1:19am with 100% certainty Sid purchased a cheap preg test (and a cigarello of some kind). We also know with 100% certainty that Sid called Heather at 1:35am. We know that Heather's car was at PTL by 3:35am and we know Heather was never seen or heard from again. We know with 100% certainty at least some of what Sid said to Heather when he called her and we know this because Heather herself told Bri a few minutes after the call.

In my mind all the events are linked by time and space. I don't need to know what all occurred to know that it was something bad, something illegal, involved luring/kidnapping, and SM was directly involved.

 

[escape2sc]

If SM and TM were smart enough to
1) not use SM's phone for a week prior to powering it on at 3 a.m.
2) delete the GPS information from the truck Sync module

then it is quite possible everything else from buying the pregnancy test , the payphone call , HE's phone being tracked to different locations and Sidney's phone being turned on to ping at home at 3 a.m. is all a cover story. They can't be smart enough to know to turn off the cellphone and to delete the GPS info but dumb enough to not know Walmart has video or convience stores have videos. Why use a payphone when they could just of easily of bought a burner phone .

 

[LBDunes]

My thoughts as well.

In most cases the story ends up being something a lot simpler than what people imagine it to be. The human mind loves a good story and creative imaginations endeavor to create one in the gaps. The truth is usually much more mundane and with fewer steps.

In this case we know that at 1:19am with 100% certainty Sid purchased a cheap preg test (and a cigarello of some kind). We also know with 100% certainty that Sid called Heather at 1:35am. We know that Heather's car was at PTL by 3:35am and we know Heather was never seen or heard from again. We know with 100% certainty at least some of what Sid said to Heather when he called her and we know this because Heather herself told Bri a few minutes after the call.

In my mind all the events are linked by time and space. I don't need to know what all occurred to know that it was something bad, something illegal, involved luring/kidnapping, and SM was directly involved.

I think you summed it up very well. I find it to be linked by time and space as well. In the case the what ifs and what happened at Longbeards were not refuted by the defense attorney. He didn't impeach the kid who was a friend of SM's son. He showed what bull it was by questioning the credibility of his memory of the cameras by pointing out he smoked pot, but then in closing used him to bolster SM by using his memory to note the phone type SM had. Hopefully if the retrial happens they will not get more people that have the mindset of what if and needing to know every single detail of every second. IMO if a juror allows their mind to wander like that they essentially are just not looking at the evidence and weighing the testimony of witnesses.

 

[Madeleine74]

The thing is, it doesn't require knowing exactly what happened minute by minute to determine evidence of guilt B.A.R.D. By that measure, no one would ever have been successfully convicted in the past. SM and HE are linked and that is undeniable. There is so much evidence linking the 2 of them that very night/morning. And on top of that you have multiple strange actions and lies by SM.

The problem is "the CSI effect" that is often referred to. And I think there's also a "CGI effect." People see a TV show and get excited by all of those possibilities and then expect real life to mirror what they saw on TV. Real life is so much more simple and mundane.

You have to dismiss everything you do know in order to say it was someone else...some other person, random, who just happened to come upon HE.

 

[LBDunes]

Exactly!!! When presenting facts in a case, I think it's pretty important to get ALL the details of the facts.

Was the "cigar" a Tropical Fusion Cigarillo? Or, was it a Don Carlos cigar? Makes a BIG difference.

I agree about getting as much detail as possible in presenting a case. However, what would be the relevance of the type of "cigar" that would weigh so heavily in favor of the solicitor's case?

 

[Unykorn&Reignbeaus]

I can try.

When I was catching up on the last few pages, there was a recurring theme - not being able to make sense of the pregnancy test. I was surprised by that, so I came up with a plausible theory, on the fly, to show that there are plenty of ways to put the pregnancy test in the story that night and have it make sense. I had just read stillwater's figures on SM's route that night, and those numbers made me think: There's no way it took 16 minutes to drive from that Wal-Mart to that payphone. Where else did he go? Well, as it turns out, he had time to drive by Heather's. If he did that, he likely saw her saying goodnight to her date, so he drove back to the payphone to call her.

And since the first time I heard he bought a cigar with the pregnancy test, I seriously doubted TM was with him. Men smoke cigars to celebrate weddings and babies. So if he was in a celebratory mood, that suggests he was being genuine about leaving TM and wanting to be with Heather.

Like I said, though, this was just a theory. I'm only speculating.

BBM... if that was the case, is there no other payphone that was closer to her apartment? Why go all the way back to Seaboard?

 

[Simply Caustic]

The thing is, it doesn't require knowing exactly what happened minute by minute to determine evidence of guilt B.A.R.D. By that measure, no one would ever have been successfully convicted in the past. SM and HE are linked and that is undeniable. There is so much evidence linking the 2 of them that very night/morning. And on top of that you have multiple strange actions and lies by SM.

The problem is "the CSI effect" that is often referred to. And I think there's also a "CGI effect." People see a TV show and get excited by all of those possibilities and then expect real life to mirror what they saw on TV. Real life is so much more simple and mundane.

You have to dismiss everything you do know in order to say it was someone else...some other person, random, who just happened to come upon HE.

Indeed. Further, it seems that the lack of information about the specifics of what happened leads some to suggest that's reasonable doubt.
I don't see how: Although we don't know the specific details of what occurred, we know he lured her out. That - in and of itself - is enough to fulfill the charges. Unfortunately, I don't know that a jury will be able to see past it, and convict as they should (jmo).

 

[Simply Caustic]

Some that I've discussed this case with, over the past few years, are determined that this is ALL TM - she roped Sidney into her plan, he was desperately in love with heather, and went along with TM plan because he was terrified for himself and his kids. I don't see any scenario where SM is even remotely devoid of guilt.
He lied with such smoothness, conviction, and ease on that recording that I'm even more convinced he's an accomplished liar, cheat, fraud, and kidnapper. He's par with TM in my opinion - curious where the "SM was roped into this" mindset comes from.
Jmo



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[LBDunes]

Indeed. Further, it seems that the lack of information about the specifics of what happened leads some to suggest that's reasonable doubt.
I don't see how: Although we don't know the specific details of what occurred, we know he lured her out. That - in and of itself - is enough to fulfill the charges. Unfortunately, I don't know that a jury will be able to see past it, and convict as they should (jmo).

BBM - Well there is a tip for the prosecution of the case. If the jury member didn't see past it, then they did not understand the charge or reasonable doubt. In this case specifically it sounded like the 2 hold outs were stuck on I can't be sure if he was in the truck. If that is the case did they understand the multiple meanings of the charge? Did they have reasonable doubt? Did they follow the law?

 

[magnolia]

My thoughts as well.

In most cases the story ends up being something a lot simpler than what people imagine it to be. The human mind loves a good story and creative imaginations endeavor to create one in the gaps. The truth is usually much more mundane and with fewer steps.

In this case we know that at 1:19am with 100% certainty Sid purchased a cheap preg test (and a cigarello of some kind). We also know with 100% certainty that Sid called Heather at 1:35am. We know that Heather's car was at PTL by 3:35am and we know Heather was never seen or heard from again. We know with 100% certainty at least some of what Sid said to Heather when he called her and we know this because Heather herself told Bri a few minutes after the call.

In my mind all the events are linked by time and space. I don't need to know what all occurred to know that it was something bad, something illegal, involved luring/kidnapping, and SM was directly involved.

Madeleine, there are other circumstances and testimony in this case that need to be considered. For me, it is not as simple as you make it out to be. Did you watch the trial?

BBM -- No, I am not 100% certain exactly what Sidney said to Heather during the pay phone call conversation. You seem to consider the testimony as if it was proven fact. That is fine, but, some people need actual proof of what was said. My hesitation to fully accept the testimony as truth has nothing to do with Bri. It has to do with Heather and other reasons she had for possibly not telling Bri the whole truth about the conversation. People pick up on certain things during a trial that they simply can't ignore. I'm not saying Sidney did or didn't tell Heather he was leaving his wife. I'm just not totally convinced he did.