Mitigating Factor:Could Casey Have Post-Partum Psychosis?
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GypsyJas
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I have a degree in psych and I have worked in the field for many years with people that have intermittent Explosive disorder, PPD, schizophrenia, etc., etc....and from what I have read and seen about Casey I never once thought this girl had anything like that. I have always believed KC suffers from Spoiled Brat Syndrome, the etiology of which being the enabling behavior of her parents (specifically Cindy). She is obviously lazy, not even wanting to go back to school to get a 1/2 a credit so she can get her diploma...no thoughts of college...she does seem to have a talent for photography but she never once did anything with it after being fired from ColorVision. And the travesty in all of this is that her parents let her get away with it, never giving her tough love or consequences or anything...so she learned to be lazy and get money and whatever else she wanted (like freedom from her child) by nefarious means. And all along she probably never thought anyone would find out because she is that arrogant. She definitely has anti-social personality traits, and IMO anyone who would kill their own child and dump her in the rattlesnake-infested woods in a true sociopath, at the very least.
tiredofthis
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I just know what I was told. Maybe post-partum depression can turn into other depression.
Avid Reader
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I'm with y'a on the Spoiled Brat Syndrome! :clap:
OneLostGrl
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Psychosis? Casey? No way... there is not one thing about Casey that even resembles psychosis. There is criteria that must be met. There are signs & symptoms of psychosis that are the same regardless of who you are or what your dx is. (Psychosis is Psychosis) and quite obvious, even to outsiders.
If she were or is psychotic there is no way she could fool the psych workers doing her psych evaluation... and had they found signs of psychosis there is NO way she'd have been bonded out of jail and sent back into the world with an ankle bracelet for a month.
My apologies for the length of this post....
I have suffered from depression for 32 years...completely controlled, btw. Over those years I have read and studied every aspect of mental illness. In the beginning of this case my first thoughts leaned toward a mental illness on Casey's part but after all these months I am convinced Casey has Asperger's Syndrome.
I also have 20 years experience with Asperger's Syndrome. My daughter, I'll call her Jane, has it.
Like everyone else, I've been watching KC and trying to figure out what makes her tick. I think we can
all agree that her actions are not "normal" in many ways. There is something about her behavior that is
"odd" but no one has been able to figure out why she does the things she does. I'm not talking about
killing a child. That is something we can't wrap our minds around no matter what the circumstance.
I'm talking about the fact that she is "off the top quirky."
Here are examples:
lack of impulse control (can lead to fits of rage)
not being able to foresee the end result of her action
juggling boyfriends
overly flirtatious
intelligent
language skills (she copies other people)
learned behavior (she copies other people)
sexually inappropriate behavior
stealing (I want it, therefore, I should have it)
From DSM-IV...
Superficially perfect expressive language
Socially and emotionally inappropriate behavior
Limited facial expression
Stereotyped or repetitive motor mannerisms
Inappropriate expression
Approaches others only to have own needs met
Detached from feelings of others
talks too much
Impairment of comprehension, including misinterpretations of literal/implied meanings
Superior rote memory.
People with Asperger's have an uncanny ability to blend in. Although we will be aware that they are
"different", that difference can be explained away by simply believing they are "quirky" or "step to
the beat of a different drummer." Everyone probably knows someone who is an "Aspie" but doesn't
realize it.
I was lucky. I knew there was something "different" about Jane by the time she was 2 years old. Jane
is adopted but I did have info on her bio-parents(bio mom was bi-polar).
I insisted that she be tested for development delays even when I was told there was nothing wrong. As
it turned out she did meet the criteria for PDD-NOS. But that was in 1990. Asperger's was not
recognized by the DSM-IV until 1994. As she got older (4-6 yo) I was convinced it was more than just
delays. Delays would have evened out by that time and she was still exhibiting "quirky" behavior.
Again I was lucky. I found someone who finally listened and was able to diagnose Jane with Asperger's.
Early intervention was the key to her becoming a well balanced young lady with a career and a bright
future. However, I look at KC and see what Jane may have become if she had been adopted by someone
else.
After all these months of reading and watching this case I would not be the least surprised if KC is an
Aspie.....jmo.
Please understand that having Asperger's would not be an excuse for her alleged actions pertaining to
Caylee's death. Although Aspies often do have violent outbursts because of lack of impulse control; they
know what is socially acceptable and will try to conform to that behavior. However, if they are put in
an unfamiliar situation they will probably behavior abnormally since they haven't had to opportunity to
learn.(riding around with a dead baby in the car?) Usually an Aspie will not lie if their family members are
honest, truthful people, however, if they have seen other people do it or have been told to lie then
they will. Lying is a learned behavior for an Aspie and they will become proficient at it. (since we
have seen and heard CA being less than forthcoming on numerous occasions I would tend to think that KC
has learned it from her...but that is jmo.)
Asperger's has a very wide range. It goes from extremely mild to extremely bizarre. I think Casey may
be off center toward mild. ....imo
Links to references:
http://www.agre.org/program/criteria.cfm?do=program#aspergers
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html
http://web.syr.edu/~rjkopp/data/as_diag_list.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061103-000002.html
Another thing....GA and CA's behavior is very typical of parents of an Aspie.
Aspies have "triggers." Certain actions or words by a parent will trigger a rage reaction from an
Aspie. GA and CA always seem to be tip-toeing around KC so as to not make her angry. That is evident
by their behavior during their video visitations....imo. An aggressive, controlling parent is an Aspie's
worst nightmare.
Aspie parents are always making excuses for their child's behavior. They will paint the child as the
victim in situations where that is clearly not the case. These parents don't know their child has
Asperger's, they just think the child is purposely defiant.
this is just my opinion...
I have suffered from depression for 32 years...completely controlled, btw. Over those years I have read and studied every aspect of mental illness. In the beginning of this case my first thoughts leaned toward a mental illness on Casey's part but after all these months I am convinced Casey has Asperger's Syndrome.
I also have 20 years experience with Asperger's Syndrome. My daughter, I'll call her Jane, has it.
Like everyone else, I've been watching KC and trying to figure out what makes her tick. I think we can
all agree that her actions are not "normal" in many ways. There is something about her behavior that is
"odd" but no one has been able to figure out why she does the things she does. I'm not talking about
killing a child. That is something we can't wrap our minds around no matter what the circumstance.
I'm talking about the fact that she is "off the top quirky."
Here are examples:
lack of impulse control (can lead to fits of rage)
not being able to foresee the end result of her action
juggling boyfriends
overly flirtatious
intelligent
language skills (she copies other people)
learned behavior (she copies other people)
sexually inappropriate behavior
stealing (I want it, therefore, I should have it)
From DSM-IV...
Superficially perfect expressive language
Socially and emotionally inappropriate behavior
Limited facial expression
Stereotyped or repetitive motor mannerisms
Inappropriate expression
Approaches others only to have own needs met
Detached from feelings of others
talks too much
Impairment of comprehension, including misinterpretations of literal/implied meanings
Superior rote memory.
People with Asperger's have an uncanny ability to blend in. Although we will be aware that they are
"different", that difference can be explained away by simply believing they are "quirky" or "step to
the beat of a different drummer." Everyone probably knows someone who is an "Aspie" but doesn't
realize it.
I was lucky. I knew there was something "different" about Jane by the time she was 2 years old. Jane
is adopted but I did have info on her bio-parents(bio mom was bi-polar).
I insisted that she be tested for development delays even when I was told there was nothing wrong. As
it turned out she did meet the criteria for PDD-NOS. But that was in 1990. Asperger's was not
recognized by the DSM-IV until 1994. As she got older (4-6 yo) I was convinced it was more than just
delays. Delays would have evened out by that time and she was still exhibiting "quirky" behavior.
Again I was lucky. I found someone who finally listened and was able to diagnose Jane with Asperger's.
Early intervention was the key to her becoming a well balanced young lady with a career and a bright
future. However, I look at KC and see what Jane may have become if she had been adopted by someone
else.
After all these months of reading and watching this case I would not be the least surprised if KC is an
Aspie.....jmo.
Please understand that having Asperger's would not be an excuse for her alleged actions pertaining to
Caylee's death. Although Aspies often do have violent outbursts because of lack of impulse control; they
know what is socially acceptable and will try to conform to that behavior. However, if they are put in
an unfamiliar situation they will probably behavior abnormally since they haven't had to opportunity to
learn.(riding around with a dead baby in the car?) Usually an Aspie will not lie if their family members are
honest, truthful people, however, if they have seen other people do it or have been told to lie then
they will. Lying is a learned behavior for an Aspie and they will become proficient at it. (since we
have seen and heard CA being less than forthcoming on numerous occasions I would tend to think that KC
has learned it from her...but that is jmo.)
Asperger's has a very wide range. It goes from extremely mild to extremely bizarre. I think Casey may
be off center toward mild. ....imo
Links to references:
http://www.agre.org/program/criteria.cfm?do=program#aspergers
http://www.udel.edu/bkirby/asperger/aswhatisit.html
http://web.syr.edu/~rjkopp/data/as_diag_list.html
http://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/pto-20061103-000002.html
Another thing....GA and CA's behavior is very typical of parents of an Aspie.
Aspies have "triggers." Certain actions or words by a parent will trigger a rage reaction from an
Aspie. GA and CA always seem to be tip-toeing around KC so as to not make her angry. That is evident
by their behavior during their video visitations....imo. An aggressive, controlling parent is an Aspie's
worst nightmare.
Aspie parents are always making excuses for their child's behavior. They will paint the child as the
victim in situations where that is clearly not the case. These parents don't know their child has
Asperger's, they just think the child is purposely defiant.
this is just my opinion...
windy91195
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I found another page on post abortion stress syndrome....it appears to be controversial. here is a link.
I would like to read the following book. I would like to know what happened in the case of the woman, and if the defense worked. I am not making excuses for Casey, but since PPD was brought up, I found this quite interesting.
snipped...with source added (hope i did this according to TES)
http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/post_abortion_syndrome_character.asp
"CHILD NEGLECT OR ABUSE: Abortion is linked with increased depression, violent behavior, alcohol and drug abuse, replacement pregnancies, and reduced maternal bonding with children born subsequently. These factors are closely associated with child abuse and would appear to confirm individual clinical assessments linking post-abortion trauma with subsequent child abuse. (20) "
20. Benedict, et al., "Maternal Perinatal Risk Factors and Child Abuse," Child Abuse and Neglect, 9:217-224 (1985); P.G. Ney, "Relationship between Abortion and Child Abuse," Canadian Journal of Psychiatry, 24:610-620, 1979; Reardon, Aborted Women - Silent No More (Chicago: Loyola University Press, 1987), 129-30, describes a case of woman who beat her three year old son to death shortly after an abortion which triggered a "psychotic episode" of grief, guilt, and misplaced anger.
I would like to read the following book. I would like to know what happened in the case of the woman, and if the defense worked. I am not making excuses for Casey, but since PPD was brought up, I found this quite interesting.
snipped...with source added (hope i did this according to TES)
http://www.abortionfacts.com/reardon/post_abortion_syndrome_character.asp
"CHILD NEGLECT OR ABUSE: Abortion is linked with increased depression, violent behavior, alcohol and drug abuse, replacement pregnancies, and reduced maternal bonding with children born subsequently. These factors are closely associated with child abuse and would appear to confirm individual clinical assessments linking post-abortion trauma with subsequent child abuse. (20) "
20. Benedict, et al., "Maternal Perinatal Risk Factors and Child Abuse," Child Abuse and Neglect, 9:217-224 (1985); P.G. Ney, "Relationship between Abortion and Child Abuse," Canadian Journal of Psychiatry, 24:610-620, 1979; Reardon, Aborted Women - Silent No More (Chicago: Loyola University Press, 1987), 129-30, describes a case of woman who beat her three year old son to death shortly after an abortion which triggered a "psychotic episode" of grief, guilt, and misplaced anger.
OneLostGrl
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txsvicki
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That was a very helpful post, Dax. It really makes me wonder about a child in my life. Did you ever go through the ADD diagnosis or know anything about whether or not stimulant meds will make mild Asperger's worse or have no effect on behavior?
But Jessie KNEW her after the pregnancy...that's when they were engaged. She had only changed the last few months when she met her new friends.
Also she lied about a whole lot, not just pregnancy issues, and it didn't start when she was pregnant. A child forces you to be responcible in many ways, and if you don't BECOME responcible it is very obvious to those around you due to the child. It doesn't mean you actually became less responcible, just that people have more oppertunity to see that irrisponcibility when you're showing up places without your child or pawning the child off on them while pretending to work (etc).
Example: If I had no child and I told my friend I was going to work she would think I was responcible even if I didn't see her for 3 days afterward. I obviousely kept myself fed and taken care of for 3 days. HOWEVER, if I ask the same friend to watch my kid while I go to work and then don't show up for three days, it is a VASTLY different situation. The friend has to feed and watch my child for three days. The friend may well call me repeatedly and find out I'm getting drunk at a club. The friend might call my family and find out THEY ususally watch my child. The same level of responcibility on my part leads to 2 COMPLETELY different perceptions based on whether a child is involved or not. It doesn't mean my brain chemistry has changed at all due to the child, just that people's perceptions have.
After taking so much from this forum I'm glad to able to give something back
Asperger children, especially very young ones, are very often misdiagnosed with ADD or ADHD. Because eye contact is, at best, limited, parents may think the child is not paying attention or not able to concentrate. Professionals who are not well informed about Aspergers tend to take the signs and symptoms of AS for ADD in small children.
Older children are able to take standardized tests that can eliminate ADD and other conditions. However, just because they are eliminated it doesn't mean that an Asperger diagnosis will result.
Someone who specializes in Asperger's Syndrome is really needed if a person suspects it may be the problem. It is a totality of observations along with standard testing that is needed.
As far as stimulants are concerned the only thing I can say is that it would have to been determined on a case by case basis. I personally don't know anyone who takes them.
There are free tests online for AS for anyone who would like to check it out. I won't post the links here because I don't know if it's allowed. These sites give someone an idea if further study is recommended. Personally, I would look into finding an Asperger professional in your area. Better to catch AS in the early years than to try to cope later in life.
If KC does have Asperger's it would certainly explain so many things. I honestly don't think KC suffers from a depression based mental illness although that may be case. Now, she actually SHOULD be depressed....but exhibits no signs in videos I've seen...even in prison...imo. If it was there before Caylee died, why isn't' it there now? just wondering aloud...
Duckley
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I spent about 10 years working with people with disabilities - including Aspergers - and well as people with mental illness.
From a distance I would think she is definately personality disordered - she may also have other diagnoses but I think this is the main issue for her.
From a distance I would think she is definately personality disordered - she may also have other diagnoses but I think this is the main issue for her.
The entire DSM-IV pertains to personality disorders. And it's a BIG book.
Very few people with Asperger's are disabled in the true sense of the word. Those who are, usually suffer from some other, more serious condition.
High-functioning Aspies go through there lives with little notice other than the fact that they very intelligent, talented, and excel in their craft.
Dan Ackroyd, Al Gore, Keanu Reeves, Woody Allen, and Bob Dylan just to name a few well known people, are Aspies. None of them are considered disabled.
However, an Asperger child who is subjected to overbearing, aggressive treatment from someone can become a nightmare....!
JMO
claudicici
Well-Known Member
...I don't know what kind of mental disorder KC has ,all I know she is not normal....her mother was a NURSE ,for christ's sake,why didn't she get that girl some help??....it makes me furious...CA knew....I'm sure so much could have been prevented...but CA enabled KC and made her completly depended on her ,I just can't see KC as an adult,she's an angry,troubled CHILD ,with a big imagination ,no sense of responsibility,no sense of consequence,she thinks she's the center of the universe.....CA completely crippled any chances of KC growing up ,it just infuriates me that she let that go on...as a mother you know when something is wrong with your child and take any step necessary to help your child IMO.....
debs
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I know, right? I wish I could remember where that call sheet was on here. If I recall, there was a significant number of problem calls.
OneLostGrl
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Yeah, ya know, I think there was one for a "stolen car" long before this too. I suspect Cindy enjoys the power she has over her kids with their car(s) being in her name..
cecybeans
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Well, unless KC's name is specifically mentioned, it could have just as easily been GA and CA stuff. Especially around the time of their separation. This family seems to have a problem with impulse control and anger issues in general...
allwaysquestions
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The tot mom just appears as a lazy, immature, self-centered, selfish, manipulative and a spoiled child. It doesn't matter what videos come out with her playing with her child, duh she is on camera, she isn't going to behave in a bad way toward her child. Just because she lies doesn't mean there is something wrong with her. One doesn't always have to have something wrong with them to kill. Some people kill when a certain button is pushed. If there was a discussion of Caylee being taken away from the tot-mom just before her disappearence the tot-mom probably planned and/or acted out of jealously for Caylee's demise. The tot-mom probably couldn't handle Caylee being prettier, cuter, and probably got more attention than her. She probably couldn't handle Caylee enjoying being with her parents more than her. Probably a guess is Caylee spent more times with them than her. Just a guess but since there were times she probably didn't have a baby sitter she probably drugged the kid and kept her in the trunk. This is only a guess. But I wonder how many of her friends typically saw Caylee sleeping? Basically it's known the tot-mom was not a good mother. How is this known? Caylee was gone for a month before it was found out she was missing. No decent parent would do nothing let alone go out and party when the kid is missing. It's kinda creepy watching the smiles between the tot-mom and her lawyer. She is loving all this personal attention as well as not having to be a parent anymore. She has no responsibilities anymore and with the death penalty off the table she is probably going to live a happy life with 3 meals a day and a bed to sleep on with access to TV and probably the internet. I hope this doesn't end up like the OJ case - to much evidence again. It's really sad in a way for the family to believe and back the tot-mom so much. Especially when both parents mentioned a "dead body" in the car. What is important now is Justice for Caylee!!! There is nothing more important than that, to punish the person who murdered innocence.
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