MN MN - Amy Pagnac, 13, Osseo, 5 Aug 1989

[momrids6]

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[princesspjs]

Spagnac, I really hope that you can clear something that has really been on my mind.

I read that right after Amy went missing the family went out of town because someone needed to have a medical procedure. Can you please clarify what happened that would require all of you to leave the area at the same time that Amy went missing?

 

[human]

I have some questions as well.

1. When were the 65 calls to LE and what were they about?

2. Was Amy running away often? If so, why did she say she was? How long would she be gone and where would she go ?

3. Having a minor stripping is against the law. Why didn't the PI call LE on the spot?

4. When did LE start looking for Amy? When did they interview the witnesses that had seen her at the farm and the gas station?

 

[MysteryMaven]

I don't think anyone on this thread suggested that Amy was drinking, etc. We are commenting on information in news articles.
I would raise holy hell if a journalist quoted me as saying that my daughter kept running away to engage in dangerous behaviors if it was untrue.
In fact, if I never said that I would demand the quoted police officer and the news agency publish an apology to me for spreading lies.
I don't think anyone on here wants anything except for the case to be solved. Sometimes when there is no new information to discuss people may speculate and get gossipy. I feel terrible if anything I posted here is taken in a negative way.

 

[Renu]

I would imagine, as I have tried unsuccessfully, it out be very difficult to get a retraction or apology, especially if it was spread by multiple news sources.
For example, in this case, Amy's father has been repeatedly referred to as "step-father" or "non-biological" father, because that was printed/reported on, and continued to be spread. Even as some news outlets corrected it to report Midden as her father, the terms step-father and non-biological father seem to be as pervasive as a weed.
How insulting to anyone who has adopted a child, to casually dismiss that legal relationship, or degrade it to 'non-biological.'

 

[Renu]

All people can go by is what LE does.

They hauled in equipment and did things at the home and the farm.

What conclusions can one draw from those events?

My point was that perhaps, we should be supportive and not draw quick or false conclusions because what we are hearing and seeing, is not the whole story. People have stated hurtful about the family based on rumor, half truths and assumptions.
There was a sudden explosion of media circus and sensationalism, and then, nothing. There was a bunch of people, digging, and nothing.
Can we move away from the sensationalism, the interrogation of a family who is hurting, aging after 25 years, and still has no answers on what happened to their loved one?

 

[human]

My point was that perhaps, we should be supportive and not draw quick or false conclusions because what we are hearing and seeing, is not the whole story. People have stated hurtful about the family based on rumor, half truths and assumptions.
There was a sudden explosion of media circus and sensationalism, and then, nothing. There was a bunch of people, digging, and nothing.
Can we move away from the sensationalism, the interrogation of a family who is hurting, aging after 25 years, and still has no answers on what happened to their loved one?

It would be good , then, to address the questions that have been asked so people can have the real situation and put an end to the wrong story

For instance, 65 calls to LE? What does that really mean?

Amy did run away in the past?

Why didn't the PI call LE about a 14 year old girl who was stripping?

 

[carbuff]

My point was that perhaps, we should be supportive and not draw quick or false conclusions because what we are hearing and seeing, is not the whole story. People have stated hurtful about the family based on rumor, half truths and assumptions.
There was a sudden explosion of media circus and sensationalism, and then, nothing. There was a bunch of people, digging, and nothing.
Can we move away from the sensationalism, the interrogation of a family who is hurting, aging after 25 years, and still has no answers on what happened to their loved one?

I agree. Some of the posts here have been unkind at best.

 

[dogperson]

Her age seems too young, to me, to be promiscuous anyway. That part of the story seemed strange to me and I hope that it really was just misreported by the press or somebody else. I too grew up in the 80s and I didn't know any girls who were promiscuous that young, and actually I knew very few who were promiscuous at 15-16 either. Shoot, I barely knew what sex was at the age of 13, so the reports of her having been running around having sex just didn't sound right to me.

 

[chestersmom]

I just read marshall midden facebook page. it's quite odd. it talks about religion. sex trafficking, and now that amy is 38 she can look into having a relationship or getting married .. odd..

 

[Renu]

I think you had some very good question regarding the article and so I contacted the reporter with them so that she could clarify.
I asked her:There has been some questions on the Webslueth community from your June 15th article on Amy Sue Pagnac. I thought it would be best to ask them directly to the source.
There are questions about the parents stating that their daughter was promiscuous. Did the parents confirm this or try to refute it? Amy's mother has an account on the site and has refuted it. Can/how does someone update what they believe is an error with your publication? Is there a process and how is that determined?
The article states that there has been 65 calls to the house. What was the time frame of the calls? You stated the nature of a few, were any other relevant? What was the nature of the 65 calls?

The community is free to use if you want to create an account to continue the dialog. If you do not wish to do that I would appreciate a response still, so we can continue the dialog about Amy.

This is her response: the quote about Amy being promiscuous was attributed to the police officer who covered the initial missing person report in 1989. It was his recollection of the conversation with Susan Pagnac and Marshall Midden – a conversation Susan now disputes. I included in the article that she disputes the officer’s account of the conversation to be fair, but because I attributed Garland’s comments to Garland, there is no error in the story; it’s his recollection attributed to him. If there are any factual errors in any article we write, we correct it immediately.

As for the police calls to the house, they happened at all hours of the day over the last 30 years. Hope this helps.


I realize now that I have forgotten to include to ask her about if the reporting officer knew when the witnesses at the farm and gas station where interviewed as he may have some direct knowledge of the matter, as well as if she had looked into the PI matter and how the PI attended to his/her investigation. After I sent the email I realize I also should have asked if the police officer she interviewed had any comments about the calls themselves. I believe maintenance had this site down or I could not otherwise access it to refer to. While I invited Ms Smith to attend to the dialog, she did not refer to looking into this site or creating an account.
Unfortunately, she does not seem willing to answer any in-depth questions with a precursory email, I will attempt to gain further information if she is willing.
I've added the link again below for ease of reference.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4587148-cold-case-what-ever-happened-to-amy-sue-pagnac-/

 

[human]

Thank you Renu!

65 calls over 30 years would not be unusual in a missing child case, I feel.

The clarifications are very good.

 

[princesspjs]

If you do decide to add more information, my questions/comments are in pink...

Amy was not promiscuous, did not drink alcohol, did not do drugs. She was a good person, and a good girl. She was a very caring, forgiving, and gentle person. Please stop telling, and repeating these lies about her. It is very mean and it serves no useful purpose toward finding Amy and bringing her home. She is still a good person and a good young woman. Can you imagine if she happens to read these horrific things, how do you think it is going to make her feel? For the record, we never made those statements to the police officer when he came to our house the day she went missing. And if you read a little further you'll find that the reporter even says we dispute his statement. Her real friends and their parents will also say the same thing, Amy was a very good person and a good girl.

I am glad that you are able to clear that up for us here. Although there is a reference to that information here because it was reported in the news, it isn't really helpful to finding Amy. If she didn't do these things, there is little chance of her meeting up with a random unsavory person because of drugs, alcohol or promiscuity.

It has been widely reported that Amy was reported as a runaway several times. Can you tell us about that? Where did she go when she ran away in the past? What were her reasons that she would give for running away?

Can you tell us about her medical conditions that you reported Amy had? Did she have a tumor of some kind? Epilepsy? Was she on medications for any of her conditions?


There have been a lot of statements made where things have been left out, and they have been totally incorrect statements on this current thread.

Number 1, Amy and her father stopped at the gas station to get gas, which he got, he paid for the gas, and then went to the bathroom.


Number 2, when they finally started to look for Amy in earnest in 1990, they actually used that receipt to establish the time line, along with interviewing other people, one of which saw Amy and her father leave our house about 11 in the morning, and the neighbor at the farm saw Amy and her father leave the farm that day.

Do you have all of the police reports about these sightings that you can post so that we can have all of the true facts that were known at that time?

Also in 1990, two private investigators worked on the case with Maple Grove police department, one of which worked to rescue children that were victims of trafficking. It is from him that Lt. Markgraf and our family first learned that both he and his partner had spotted Amy at a strip club. As it was explained to us, this was not a place where children had any choices. Unfortunately, before they could rescue her, according to this investigator, she had been moved to a new location. Trust me, this is the last thing a parent wants to hear.

Where is this private investigator or his partner now? Where are his reports about all of this? What did he say that he saw? Did he actually state that he went into this club and saw Amy stripping at this club? Was she dressed as if she were going to strip? What exactly was Amy doing when he saw her?

There were two other sightings, one in Minneapolis by someone who had known her before she had gone missing, and another one out on the west coast at some form of a bus or train station. Lt. Markgraf read from the report and hears what he said it said. A person, who did not leave contact information, stated that they had spoken with a girl that identified herself as Amy Pagnac and the main reason the call was made was they felt that Amy was too young to be with the people she was with. There other reports, but not as reliable as all the information that was in these two. We have not been told of anything since about 1992.

Where is the person who knew Amy and saw her in Minneapolis? Did she speak to her? How far away was she from Amy? Does she still believe that it was Amy that she saw? Do you have her statement to police? Have you contacted her to ask her to speak out for Amy?

The phone call from someone who spoke to someone who said their name was Amy Pagnac....that just doesn't make sense to me. I have a lot of questions about that call.

As for the person that called the attention to our landscaping and made some other untrue statements, I suggest that if they think they actually know something, that they go to the police.

We are just brainstorming ideas here. I don't believe that anyone here would purposely repeat untrue statements to try to pass them off as fact.

Copyright rules here prevent us from copying and pasting an entire news article. We will usually only quote a paragraph or two of an article if it is new news or something, we are not trying to spread rumors.

Amy's family -- we still want Amy found, please help bring her home.

This website is full of people who want nothing more than to help find missing loved ones. I know that there are many people here, myself included, who would love to have Amy found.

I would also like to ask what do you, as Amy's mother, think happened to her? Where do you believe she is now?

 

[human]

Princesspjs, excellent questions.

I am wondering why , if Amy was having a seizure and hit her mother, the police were called?

 

[princesspjs]

Amy's information was just changed on Charley Project on 6/20/14.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pagnac_amy.html

Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance​

Missing Since: August 5, 1989 from Osseo, Minnesota
Classification: Non-Family Abduction
Date Of Birth: June 15, 1976
Age: 13 years old
Height and Weight: 5'0, 100 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Caucasian female. Brown hair, blue eyes. Amy has scars on her left cheek, left eyelid and the side of her nose. She has a circular-shaped scar on her left knee. Amy's ears are pierced. She has a petite stature.
Clothing/Jewelry Description: Sweatpants, a light-colored shirt, and sneakers.
Medical Conditions: Amy suffers from headaches and occasional seizures due to undetermined causes. She may have also had bipolar disorder, although she had not been officially diagnosed with the condition. She is also required to take allergy medication.

Details of Disappearance​

Amy and her stepfather, Marshall Midden, stopped at the Holiday Inn gasoline station in Osseo, Minnesota at 4:30 p.m. on August 5, 1989. They were on their way home from a day trip to the family farm at the time; they lived in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Midden went inside the station for a brief moment to use the bathroom. When he returned, he saw that she had disappeared from their parked vehicle. She has never been heard from again.

Authorities initially believed Amy ran away from home. She had been having some problems that summer and ran away repeatedly, but always returned home after a short time period. She is no longer classified as a runaway, however. It's possible that had a seizure while Midden was inside the building and became disoriented as a result. She may have walked away from their car afterwards.

Amy remains missing and her case is unsolved. Her family has kept the same telephone number since her disappearance in case she attempts to contact them. Her case received additional attention in the spring of 2014, after authorities searched her parents' farm and their residence in the 9700 block of Hemlock Lane north for information in her case, but the search turned up nothing of interest. Maple Grove police are investigating her disappearance.

Investigating Agency​

If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Maple Grove Police Department
612-494-6114​

 

[Renu]

When you call 911 for anything, the police and fire department are often the first responders on-site, even for a medical emergency such as a seizure. I had a a choking emergency a few weeks ago at work, and the police and fire departments were the first to arrive.

I was looking at the project Charley page. The links they provided as reference information were either out of date, did not have the same updated information (National center for missing/exploited, Doe), or did not have 'Her case received additional attention in the spring of 2014, after authorities searched her parents' farm and their residence in the 9700 block of Hemlock Lane north for information in her case, but the search turned up nothing of interest. Maple Grove police are investigating her disappearance,' in the story. Does anyone know where that updated information came from? Did I miss a quote? I thought they were focusing on DNA evidence?

 

[dogperson]

I think I read something wrong earlier in the thread. I was thinking the 65 calls to LE had been made in the time leading up to Amy's disappearance, but I believe the calls were made since her disappearance? Or did they include some of the calls made on the occasions she ran away? I was trying to figure out what the nature of the calls might have been. If the majority were made after her disappearance, maybe they were to do with keeping in touch with police. If I were a parent of a missing child, I would expect that I would make a number of calls about the case.

 

[thenotebook]

Amy's information was just changed on Charley Project on 6/20/14.

http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/p/pagnac_amy.html

Vital Statistics at Time of Disappearance​

Missing Since: August 5, 1989 from Osseo, Minnesota
Classification: Non-Family Abduction
Date Of Birth: June 15, 1976
Age: 13 years old
Height and Weight: 5'0, 100 pounds
Distinguishing Characteristics: Caucasian female. Brown hair, blue eyes. Amy has scars on her left cheek, left eyelid and the side of her nose. She has a circular-shaped scar on her left knee. Amy's ears are pierced. She has a petite stature.
Clothing/Jewelry Description: Sweatpants, a light-colored shirt, and sneakers.
Medical Conditions: Amy suffers from headaches and occasional seizures due to undetermined causes. She may have also had bipolar disorder, although she had not been officially diagnosed with the condition. She is also required to take allergy medication.

Details of Disappearance​

Amy and her stepfather, Marshall Midden, stopped at the Holiday Inn gasoline station in Osseo, Minnesota at 4:30 p.m. on August 5, 1989. They were on their way home from a day trip to the family farm at the time; they lived in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Midden went inside the station for a brief moment to use the bathroom. When he returned, he saw that she had disappeared from their parked vehicle. She has never been heard from again.

Authorities initially believed Amy ran away from home. She had been having some problems that summer and ran away repeatedly, but always returned home after a short time period. She is no longer classified as a runaway, however. It's possible that had a seizure while Midden was inside the building and became disoriented as a result. She may have walked away from their car afterwards.

Amy remains missing and her case is unsolved. Her family has kept the same telephone number since her disappearance in case she attempts to contact them. Her case received additional attention in the spring of 2014, after authorities searched her parents' farm and their residence in the 9700 block of Hemlock Lane north for information in her case, but the search turned up nothing of interest. Maple Grove police are investigating her disappearance.

Investigating Agency​

If you have any information concerning this case, please contact:
Maple Grove Police Department
612-494-6114​

This doesn't seem completely accurate. I've read that the father was in the restroom for 15 minutes - not a "brief moment".

 

[princesspjs]

It is interesting to compare the two versions that the Charley Project had for Amy. I wonder why they chose to include some of the information that they did.

Also:

• Why did they change Marshall Midden's status as being "Pagnac's father" to being "Amy's stepfather"?
  
  
• Holiday Inn gas station? I believe Holiday Inn is a hotel chain Holiday Inn link and Holiday is a gasoline station Holiday link.

.



Old info:

Details of Disappearance

Pagnac and her father stopped at the Holiday Inn gasoline station in Osseo, Minnesota at 4:30 p.m. on August 5, 1989. They were on their way home from a visit to the family farm at the time; they lived in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Pagnac's father went inside the station for a brief moment to use the toilet. When he returned, he saw that she had disappeared from their parked vehicle. She has never been heard from again.

Authorities initially believed Pagnac ran away from home. She had done so once before after packing clothing, but had only been gone for a day. She is no longer considered a runaway; it is thought that Pagnac may have had a seizure while her father was inside the building and became disoriented as a result. She may have walked away from their car afterwards.

There was a possible sighting of Pagnac in July of 2002. Someone reported to the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children that Pagnac, who would have been 26 at the time, may have been seen in Bay City, Michigan and was possibly a student at a local college or university in the area. Nothing came of the lead, however.

Pagnac remains missing and her case is unsolved. Her family has kept the same telephone number since her disappearance in case she attempts to contact them. Maple Grove police are investigating her disappearance.

New info:

Details of Disappearance


Amy and her stepfather, Marshall Midden, stopped at the Holiday Inn gasoline station in Osseo, Minnesota at 4:30 p.m. on August 5, 1989. They were on their way home from a day trip to the family farm at the time; they lived in Maple Grove, Minnesota. Midden went inside the station for a brief moment to use the bathroom. When he returned, he saw that she had disappeared from their parked vehicle. She has never been heard from again.

Authorities initially believed Amy ran away from home. She had been having some problems that summer and ran away repeatedly, but always returned home after a short time period. She is no longer classified as a runaway, however. It's possible that had a seizure while Midden was inside the building and became disoriented as a result. She may have walked away from their car afterwards.

Amy remains missing and her case is unsolved. Her family has kept the same telephone number since her disappearance in case she attempts to contact them. Her case received additional attention in the spring of 2014, after authorities searched her parents' farm and their residence in the 9700 block of Hemlock Lane north for information in her case, but the search turned up nothing of interest. Maple Grove police are investigating her disappearance.



IMO, JMO, MOO

 

[princesspjs]

I think you had some very good question regarding the article and so I contacted the reporter with them so that she could clarify.
I asked her:There has been some questions on the Webslueth community from your June 15th article on Amy Sue Pagnac. I thought it would be best to ask them directly to the source.
There are questions about the parents stating that their daughter was promiscuous. Did the parents confirm this or try to refute it? Amy's mother has an account on the site and has refuted it. Can/how does someone update what they believe is an error with your publication? Is there a process and how is that determined?
The article states that there has been 65 calls to the house. What was the time frame of the calls? You stated the nature of a few, were any other relevant? What was the nature of the 65 calls?

The community is free to use if you want to create an account to continue the dialog. If you do not wish to do that I would appreciate a response still, so we can continue the dialog about Amy.

This is her response: the quote about Amy being promiscuous was attributed to the police officer who covered the initial missing person report in 1989. It was his recollection of the conversation with Susan Pagnac and Marshall Midden – a conversation Susan now disputes. I included in the article that she disputes the officer’s account of the conversation to be fair, but because I attributed Garland’s comments to Garland, there is no error in the story; it’s his recollection attributed to him. If there are any factual errors in any article we write, we correct it immediately.

As for the police calls to the house, they happened at all hours of the day over the last 30 years. Hope this helps.

I realize now that I have forgotten to include to ask her about if the reporting officer knew when the witnesses at the farm and gas station where interviewed as he may have some direct knowledge of the matter, as well as if she had looked into the PI matter and how the PI attended to his/her investigation. After I sent the email I realize I also should have asked if the police officer she interviewed had any comments about the calls themselves. I believe maintenance had this site down or I could not otherwise access it to refer to. While I invited Ms Smith to attend to the dialog, she did not refer to looking into this site or creating an account.
Unfortunately, she does not seem willing to answer any in-depth questions with a precursory email, I will attempt to gain further information if she is willing.
I've added the link again below for ease of reference.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4587148-cold-case-what-ever-happened-to-amy-sue-pagnac-/

It was certainly nice for the reporter to respond to your email. Bless her heart. The reporter's explanation is exactly the way that I understood her article to read.

Regarding the items that you forgot to ask, those questions should be posed to LE instead of the reporter of one random news article. The PI was working with LE so I trust that they made sure the PI attended to the investigation appropriately using whatever information was given to him by Amy's parents.

IMO, JMO, MOO