MN MN - Amy Pagnac, 13, Osseo, 5 Aug 1989

[Whisper2112]

Can anyone identify any info that could be used to revive this case?

Putting posters in Maple Grove is one option.

What else is there?

I find the paucity of information very unusual.

I think that sharing the case much more widely would be helpful. Maple Grove is a very small focus for a case that is this old, and where there have been reported sightings outside the state.

Also, looking at other events of missing persons and other crimes in the area could shed some new light. It's unfortunate that the responding officer went to the home rather than to the scene to take the report, and that there was not an immediate canvass for possible witnesses, and no video footage of the scene at the time was collected.

Still, looking at the surrounding area, we can still "see" things that could suggest new areas of inquiry.

The County fair was going on near that time, so people would not necessarily be alerted to "strangers" in the area. There would have been a lot more unusual activity ,and people coming and going from the area.

We know of at least one other missing person's case that happened within fifteen days of Amy going missing, so it could be possible to explore if there is a possible relation to that. There was a landowner who lived in Maple Grove at the time who owned several problem properties in Minneapolis who was under indictment for tax fraud, there was a suicide of a young man around that time, there were numerous incidences of vandalism with BB guns, and there was a gun incident at the school that Amy attended...

It seems like there were a lot of things going on in Maple Grove that could tie in to the circumstances surrounding Amy's disappearance. Nothing as "smoking gun" as the Paynesville attacks, but still, could shed some light on possible theories of the crime.

I have put the info up on some of these, and intend to find out more about them. For a little longer, I will probably continue to share them here, but if nobody else is interested, I'll probably not waste my time.

For now, though, given that there have been so many investigators on this case, it just doesn't seem likely that they are all incompetent, and have failed to put together some critical bit of information regarding Amy's home and immediate relationships. Especially given the effort two years ago, and the police say the family has been cooperative.

It is not outside the possibility that a new officer (one of the articles mentioned that) made a bad report, but it's pretty inconceivable that every detective on the case since the beginning has failed to uncover information about a cooperative family.

There is probably something out there that can shed some light...but it's not going to be on the well-traveled road, in my opinion.

 

[Whisper2112]

(modsnip)

Again...and this is all over this thread in a few different places...the family was not paying the PI. Amy's Mom said that the PI was working with a non-profit child find agency, that they had reported the sighting to the police, and that the family was informed of the sighting by MGPD.

(modsnip)

 

[BethAnn777]

Bumping for Amy.

 

[buffetoflies]

Almost been a full month.. Jacobs case was solved, this one should be able to get resolved too

 

[BethAnn777]

Bumping for Amy.

 

[BethAnn777]

Bumping up for Amy.

 

[Whisper2112]

Today is Amy's 41st Birthday. Please, Amy, come home!

Please, anyone who has information about Amy, please contact police and tell what you know!

 

[BethAnn777]

If Amy really was at that gas station what the heck happened? Was she stalked? Due to the distance she and Marshall travelled likely not. If it would have been a quick trip around town stalking seems more likely. So an abductor just happens to be at the gas station at that moment, Amy is left alone for a few minutes, and someone decides to grab her? She doesn't scream or cause a scene? Could she have been lured to someone's vehicle and then grabbed? No one notices anything out of the ordinary.

Any cases out there of any girls around Amy's age being abducted out of a vehicle while left alone for a few minutes?

If Amy took off on her own how did she get away so quickly and no one saw her? No cell phones to call someone to pick her up. She wouldn't have known they were stopping at that gas station let alone at a specific time.

Wanders off due to a seizure and not found walking around confused? I don't even think this could be a consideration.

What's left? Where could Amy be?

 

[BeautifulRecluse]

If Amy really was at that gas station what the heck happened? Was she stalked? Due to the distance she and Marshall travelled likely not. If it would have been a quick trip around town stalking seems more likely. So an abductor just happens to be at the gas station at that moment, Amy is left alone for a few minutes, and someone decides to grab her? She doesn't scream or cause a scene? Could she have been lured to someone's vehicle and then grabbed? No one notices anything out of the ordinary.

Any cases out there of any girls around Amy's age being abducted out of a vehicle while left alone for a few minutes?

If Amy took off on her own how did she get away so quickly and no one saw her? No cell phones to call someone to pick her up. She wouldn't have known they were stopping at that gas station let alone at a specific time.

Wanders off due to a seizure and not found walking around confused? I don't even think this could be a consideration.

What's left? Where could Amy be?

All the possible scenarios seem so far fetched, I have been saying that since I learned of this case years ago when I moved to the surrounding suburbs where she supposedly went missing. I often times think of her case and I get upset because I really believe her case should be solved . I have my my own theories. I know of other people who have lived in Osseo and maple grove around my age ( early to mid 30's) who never even knew she was missing, yet that same group knew about wetterling, to me her case is just as unusual as his disappearance was yet it received such little attention.
I don't believe for a minute she had a seizure and walked off, I don't believe some traffickers where there at the exact moment she was, I don't believe she took off to meet some friends or get on a bus, I don't believe she just walked off .. a witness or her or her remains would have been found had any of those scenarios been right.
I don't believe in sugar coating and I'm not here to spare anyone's feelings, my thought is she never made it off that farmland.

 

[BethAnn777]

I think we all know what most likely happened to Amy. Not because we want to believe that her step dad harmed Amy, but because we know that statistically speaking that is most likely what happened. I'd be happy to supply links if anyone would like, but it's common knowledge that stranger abductions are rare and that most people are harmed by someone they know rather than a stranger.

So, to those on this thread who don't think the step dad is responsible, I hope that you can logically understand why many of us believe otherwise.

Im happy to entertain any other scenario. No matter how far-fetched or unlikely. Not because it's probable but because it's possible and because occasionally the improbable is the reality.

 

[BethAnn777]

Playing devil's advocate with my own opinions here...

If step dad did harm Amy, why? What would have been his motive? I've heard others mention sexual abuse and then murder to keep her quiet. Trying to imagine how that scenario plays out. Was this a one time abuse that resulted in an accidental death? I can't really see this happening. Wouldn't he have assumed Amy would tell on him? Then what? Repeated abuse...again, wouldn't he have been afraid she would tell her mom (his wife) or a friend? Could mom have known? Some women choose their man over their own child or refuse to believe their child.

Can we imagine any scenario at all in which he accidentally kills Amy and rather than saying so he gets rid of the body and then makes up a cover story?

 

[Alleykins]

Playing devil's advocate with my own opinions here...

If step dad did harm Amy, why? What would have been his motive? I've heard others mention sexual abuse and then murder to keep her quiet. Trying to imagine how that scenario plays out. Was this a one time abuse that resulted in an accidental death? I can't really see this happening. Wouldn't he have assumed Amy would tell on him? Then what? Repeated abuse...again, wouldn't he have been afraid she would tell her mom (his wife) or a friend? Could mom have known? Some women choose their man over their own child or refuse to believe their child.

Can we imagine any scenario at all in which he accidentally kills Amy and rather than saying so he gets rid of the body and then makes up a cover story?

Without giving too much away, someone very close to me was sexually abused for years by her mother's significant other between the ages of 8-10. The only way her mother found out was reading about him being arrested in the newspaper, getting that sick feeling in the pit of her stomach and asking her about it. When I found out, I was befuddled that it had gone on for as long as it did. Not once did she act uncomfortable around her abuser, and never seemed distressed to be alone with him. She said she was too scared to tell her mother, but she also said she was never threatened by him not to tell her, so I'm not sure why she didn't, except that she was embarrassed and ashamed. She refused to press charges because she didn't want to go through testifying and reliving the abuse on the witness stand.
I'm very distrustful of people,but at the time,he would have been one of the few people I would have trusted my kid with, that's how normal and safe he appeared to me, how normal his relationship seemed with the girl and her mother. We were all fooled and had no clue until the story broke in the news (about him abusing another little girl once he moved onto a new relationship). In hindsight, after learning about this, the mother could put some of the pieces together, like he was not interested in sex with her, and his stepdaughter committing suicide).
I'm not saying this is what happened to Amy, but what I will say is that no matter how normal and harmless things appear on the outside, they may not be.

 

[shadowdancer]

One thing we all know, is that when something happens to someone, the person responsible is usually known to the victim. Its incredibly rare to be abducted/killed by a stranger.

Even without considering the particular circumstances of this case, the family has to be considered suspects unless they have water-tight alibis which make it impossible for them to be involved.

I feel very sorry for Amy's family if they are indeed innocent, but its what happens in these cases. Every other family with a missing child are also considered suspects, unless they can be ruled out.

 

[Jim_M]

It is my humble opinion that we all need to get back on track with the original mission of this posting. To find Amy Pagnac.

We need to deal with facts. We need to deal with verified information.

Did, or did not, the investigators involved with Amy's case, clear her parents of any involvement?

Did anything ever come out of the FOIA request made in the previous pages?

Did LE ever release the 2nd Police Report on Amy's case? Or clarify any of the details that were not agreed-to by Amy's family in the 1st?

Amy has been missing for 28 years on August 5th. That makes me cry when I think about the life she (may have/has) had. Too sad.

 

[BethAnn777]

It is my humble opinion that we all need to get back on track with the original mission of this posting. To find Amy Pagnac.

We need to deal with facts. We need to deal with verified information.

Did, or did not, the investigators involved with Amy's case, clear her parents of any involvement?

Did anything ever come out of the FOIA request made in the previous pages?

Did LE ever release the 2nd Police Report on Amy's case? Or clarify any of the details that were not agreed-to by Amy's family in the 1st?

Amy has been missing for 28 years on August 5th. That makes me cry when I think about the life she (may have/has) had. Too sad.

We would love answers real, solid here.

IMO, the answers to your questions:

1. Parents were not cleared regardless of what they say. Searches are not done at the properties of people who are not suspects.

2. The poster who said he/she would request FOIA documents never came back to let us know the outcome.

3. The other police report has not been published to the public.

 

[shadowdancer]

Just to clear a few things up on this thread - people will discuss their various interpretations of the case and the circumstances involved. That's the very nature of the site - its called WebSLEUTHS, and the clue really is in the word 'sleuths'.

Its not for everyone, I appreciate that, but as another poster's signature on here says "If we wanted to mind our own business, we wouldn't be here" (or some wording close to that).

 

[BethAnn777]

Bumping for Amy.

 

[Taylerwjaramillo]

I took time to read through this thread and it does seem fairly obvious what *probably* occurred to Amy--sadly.

Moving on...I know it's been awhile since the searches were conducted and anything BIG happened; however, from experience dealing with legal proceedings, (my aunt Susan Winters' murder and on going trial) it's not about "what you know it's about what you can prove" and HOPEFULLY there's work being done on this case behind the scenes and we aren't privy to that knowledge. Perhaps the police are preparing their evidence in such a fashion that if/when they do turn the case over to the DA it's all wrapped up with a nice little bow and just like that it's handled. Then, as the public we are all flabbergasted by it all.

I don't know. I'm sure it's all wishful thinking on my part, but stranger things have happened! Regardless, Amy deserves a day in court and justice.

 

[BethAnn777]

Bumping up for Amy. Come home soon.

 

[Damarna]

We would love answers real, solid here.

IMO, the answers to your questions:

1. Parents were not cleared regardless of what they say. Searches are not done at the properties of people who are not suspects.

2. The poster who said he/she would request FOIA documents never came back to let us know the outcome.

3. The other police report has not been published to the public.

I've not had the time to follow up on the FOIA. Due to a family situation it hasn't been on my priority list and probably won't be for a bit. With that said, I hope someone else might be willing to do it!

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