MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #13

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MotherOcean said:
Hello! I hate to ask another question that I'm sure has been discussed thoroughly... I really AM trying to catch up on the threads! But, I haven't found this info. Earlier today as I pondered it seemed to be a significant component of whatever theory I was brainstorming about at the time. Now, not sure where I was going with it, but regardless, can anyone tell me what became of the boys' flashlight? Was it left at the scene for LE to recover?

I know the boys did not see or hear a vehicle. I can understand that, seems the spot where Jacob's last footprint was found would have been just the right spot for a car to be off the road and also blocked by the trees so that it could not be seen from the farm house. But, there doesn't look like there would be anything to obstruct the vehicle from any other direction. Isn't the land flat as one looked across the fields? Wouldn't the boys have seen car lights as the perp. left, even if they had not previously seen the car, even if they did not hear a vehicle crank up? Wouldn't the car headlights have been very bright, considering it was a very dark, moonless time of the night? I think they would have seen lights from the car after it was cranked, even if they had not seen it previously, even if they never heard it.

Wouldn't the FBI know if the tracks they had seen (now presumed to be Kevin's?) resulted from a PARKED car or a traveling car? Were there no indications of a parked car on DR's drive-way around the 40 yard mark (where Jacob's last footprint was found)?

I know these things have been discussed. Please be patient as I try to catch up with you guys! I can't stop thinking about this case. Where are you Jacob?
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Why would someone so observant in using the trees to block his vehicle from DR's farm have been so not observant that he was going to leave his tire tracks and footprints behind. And also according to DR, turns around in the building site and is witnessed right there. It's not making sense that the perp was being incognito at all actually.
 
Trackergd said:
Pulling on this string a bit..... What male adult would be at the rink often enough (or even be at the rink to begin with) to observe one or more boys? I would guess staff, parents etc... Probably spectators on occasion.
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This is Minnesota. There is always year-round indoor open skate at rinks, and the times are publicized. There's a small charge, taken by an employee (slam, bang, thank you). It would be especially easy to stalk if someone were to visit various rinks at various times, and what community doesn't have ice?

As to youth games, unless it's a tournament, there's no admission to watch. There are always kids coming and going, people sitting in the stands, waiting for skaters to change or waiting for the next game. You just don't know who's there.

Outdoors (winter), there aren't places for spectators; warming houses are very small, about enough room to lace your skates. This would be very obvious.

Today's enhanced rinks - usually two or three ice sheets at a rink - probably make it even easier for a stalker.
 
MotherOcean said:
Isn't the land flat as one looked across the fields? Wouldn't the boys have seen car lights as the perp. left, even if they had not previously seen the car, even if they did not hear a vehicle crank up? Wouldn't the car headlights have been very bright, considering it was a very dark, moonless time of the night?
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Regarding the terrain, others can no doubt explain it better with photos, but no, the area was not flat. In fact, the abduction site was at the top of a rise. Going into DR's driveway to the east is going down a slope and so too going south along 91st Avenue towards the Wetterling turn off.
 
MotherOcean said:
can anyone tell me what became of the boys' flashlight? Was it left at the scene for LE to recover?
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Interesting question. I don't recall this being discussed before. My first thought is that Aaron or Trevor (I can't remember which one had the flashlight) would have left it in the ditch along with the other items (the movie, the candy, and the bikes/scooter). However I don't recall seeing it in the photographs.

From the recount that we have heard, it doesn't sound like the perp actually touched the flashlight. He just told the boy to turn it off. But of course we can't be 100% certain if LE is withholding information.
 
thenotebook said:
Interesting question. I don't recall this being discussed before. My first thought is that Aaron or Trevor (I can't remember which one had the flashlight) would have left it in the ditch along with the other items (the movie, the candy, and the bikes/scooter). However I don't recall seeing it in the photographs.

From the recount that we have heard, it doesn't sound like the perp actually touched the flashlight. He just told the boy to turn it off. But of course we can't be 100% certain if LE is withholding information.
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I've always wondered if the abductor took the boy's flashlight or if he had his own. Because they said he looked at each of their faces, and if it was so dark out, IMO he would have needed some sort of light. I agree we have never heard what happened to the flashlight.
 
Thank you! Hmmm... I knew there was/is a hill on DR's drive-way but had pictured the fields as flat.
 
I have read that the perp. told Aaron to throw the flashlight down. I assume he would have done that at the time that he first approached them or came into their view. Also, I have wondered if the gleam that the boys saw which they later thought may have been the shine of a gun, was something other than a gun. Possibly a flashlight that was not on, a pipe, or a club. I haven't found any verification that the boys actually saw a gun. Some articles state it was a hand gun as if that is a fact, but I don't think the witnesses (boys) said that; they said they "sort of" saw the perps. gun. Another thing... all the early threads and every article I have ever read up until recent ones, state that the perp. wore something like ladies' nylons or pantyhose/stocking. But, a couple of recent articles say he wore a ski mask.

I sure wish I knew every detail of the abduction event and everything LE knows about the perp. via the boys' witness testimony sans any leading questioning on the part of interviewers, including the first 911 call intake officer. LE will have to have a confession, Jacob's remains, or possibly some item used during the abduction, or subsequent actions related to what happened to Jacob after abduction and during captivity, to get to the truth.
 
shergal said:
I've always wondered if the abductor took the boy's flashlight or if he had his own. Because they said he looked at each of their faces, and if it was so dark out, IMO he would have needed some sort of light. I agree we have never heard what happened to the flashlight.
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If LE did not recover the flashlight it is still out there somewhere. Could it have been included in any of the search warrants used to access and investigate DR's property? I doubt the perp. would have taken it, but since I haven't read otherwise, I have been thinking that LE have to be looking for it (if they don't have it).
 
MotherOcean said:
I have read that the perp. told Aaron to throw the flashlight down. I assume he would have done that at the time that he first approached them or came into their view. Also, I have wondered if the gleam that the boys saw which they later thought may have been the shine of a gun, was something other than a gun. Possibly a flashlight that was not on, a pipe, or a club. I haven't found any verification that the boys actually saw a gun. Some articles state it was a hand gun as if that is a fact, but I don't think the witnesses (boys) said that; they said they "sort of" saw the perps. gun. Another thing... all the early threads and every article I have ever read up until recent ones, state that the perp. wore something like ladies' nylons or pantyhose/stocking. But, a couple of recent articles say he wore a ski mask.

I sure wish I knew every detail of the abduction event and everything LE knows about the perp. via the boys' witness testimony sans any leading questioning on the part of interviewers, including the first 911 call intake officer. LE will have to have a confession, Jacob's remains, or possibly some item used during the abduction, or subsequent actions related to what happened to Jacob after abduction and during captivity, to get to the truth.
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Several of the early news articles consistently say the mask was like nylons, distorting the perps face, and there was a ball of extra material on the back of his head.

Trevor described the gun as black in at least one article.
 
I've seen links to an interview with Aaron but they are no longer active.
 
MotherOcean said:
Thank you! Hmmm... I knew there was/is a hill on DR's drive-way but had pictured the fields as flat.
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I also wonder if the crops had been harvested yet. This year, we had a very early snowstorm on November 9th (14" at my house!) There are several fields in the area that still have corn standing in them...it really caught some farmers off-guard. There's a good chance the fields around the Rassier farm still had crops in them and therefore would have made it harder to see a car parked on the driveway in the pitch dark.
I've also wondered about the field across the road the boys ran through...crops in it or recently tilled? Which way did the rows run? Did they run down a row or across tilled soil? Did they cut across and get back on 91st?
 
human said:
When are crops harvested? It seems like they would have been long gone by Oct 22.

When is the first frost, usually, there?

Farmers can take a chance on Oct 22, but would they?



http://davesgarden.com/guides/freeze-frost-dates/index.php?q=56304#b
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Corn is typically harvested mid-October through mid-November. Wheat/hay/alfalfa is done towards the end of September. I'm not a farmer, but this is what I've observed. Because 1989 was unseasonably warm, they may have waited.

http://swat.tamu.edu/media/90113/crops-typicalplanting-harvestingdates-by-states.pdf
 
Re the car.

Kevin has said that he was in a large car that has a large span between tires.

There would not be the small car tire prints that DR indicated then because the probably the only missing car tire prints were Kevin's.

As much as people would like there to be a car, where are the prints that support that idea?

BAC, FBI. These were not stupid untrained people.

These agencies worked on Virginia Piper kidnapping. A huge huge huge case involving an extremely wealthy family. I bet the pressure on that one was intense as other wealthy familes were worried living in their enclaves of wealth and supposed safety.

She was taken in the middle of the day from her garden. Yowza!
 
ELOCsoul said:
Several of the early news articles consistently say the mask was like nylons, distorting the perps face, and there was a ball of extra material on the back of his head.

Trevor described the gun as black in at least one article.
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Here's a copy/quote from the 911 transcripts where Trevor is asked about the gun: I've spaced it a little for readability, and to show who's talking; the transcripts on here are just all run together: http://www.websleuths.com/forums/sh...St-Joseph-22-Oct-1989-4&p=6041824#post6041824 Thread #4, post #97 by JBrown324320;

Merlin J - Yes, they just told me that the guy had a hold of Jacob and told them to run into the woods.

911 operator - Told the other two boys to run into the woods. Did they see any weapons at all or anything like that? Guns? Knives?

Merlin J - He had a pistol.

(operator relays info to police radio individual did have some type of hand gun). Can I talk to Trevor again?

Merle J - Yes, hold on.

911 - OK. Hello? Trevor, did you see the gun the individual had?

Trevor - Um, we couldn’t really see it, but we just, we sort of fell.

911 - OK, did he threaten you..? (Cut off) OK, do you guys see squad cars outside the residence?"

I've also seen a video interview of both Trevor and Aaron where they mention seeing the gun, but, this is straight from the transcripts. Also, while I'm not certain exactly where, I could probably find it, I remember that LE had thought that they were looking for a chrome gun, in fact, I think that was among the things they were looking for at DR's place. So, I kind of imagine that if nothing else, they saw something shiny, but, it's really hard to know what certain actual facts are/were.
 
human said:
When are crops harvested? It seems like they would have been long gone by Oct 22.

When is the first frost, usually, there?

Farmers can take a chance on Oct 22, but would they?

http://davesgarden.com/guides/freeze-frost-dates/index.php?q=56304#b
Click to expand...

I am a deer hunter and have seen corn up through November, or even left up all winter because it snowed. In the show The Hunt corn stalks were featured along the road. Corn could have hidden the car better, but there is still no hiding the tire tracks imo.
 
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