MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #14

[Trino]

Re: MN Sex Offender Program

Without a doubt, there are creeps at Moose Lake, and I am not, at all, defending them. However, somehow WS'ers are failing to realize that MN is not the only state with sex offenders. Every state, of course, has them, and every other state has a treatment program, which includes release.

If you follow the current case, this is a FEDERAL case which has to do treatment which almost never releases anyone. And, yes, there is an offender who was incarcerated in 2009 for acts committed when he was between the ages of 10 and 14 (Eric Terhaar). He was a juvenile committed to an adult facility. There was, until recently, one female housed with the men. As of 2014, according to a federally appointed panel, there are 62 persons that should be eligible for release. Note that this would not be a massive release of all sex offenders in MN, which appears to be frightening the public.

When you think logically, there are 700 committed, and hardly any offender has ever been released. I am not in defense of releasing all of these offenders, but one must admit that perhaps in all the years of the program's existence, more than two or three have successfully completed treatment and should be given a chance. The program is set up like treatment w/o ever allowing anyone to leave.

Other states do not do this so maybe it's better to see the larger picture, since it is a federal case.

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/02/06/court-case-changes-sex-offender-program

 

[ThePhantom]

We know not all police are arrogant, not all community members are resigned and don't care, not all agencies entrusted with oversight are on the slap on the back and handshake dole, and not everyone who could help has had his/her allegiance bought in some way. Certainly Stearns county is far from being the only locale in which various trust issues with certain entities are to be had.

If one is an advocate for a family who has not been and continues to not be treated with sufficient consideration, disdain and cynicism can set in. I have often felt this way in the Guimond case. I can speak for myself and say that many of the roads I've traveled (figuratively speaking) in this region have not been productive -- or positive. So what are the options? Stand behind an unmoving wall of silence and take it like a man, or find another route to knowledge? Sit mute on the sidelines with feigned hope that the truth is forthcoming? I respect authority, but I also am of the mind that authority is not omnipotent. Sometimes the citizenry must engage in a methodical, appropriate way to find answers, when little to none have been forthcoming. (all my opinion only)

I am grateful for ELOC's extensive efforts in researching and writing his forthcoming book about Jacob's case. I admit to being concerned about whether the public at large will be able to discern who is who due to fictional names -- but -- maybe that's not the key here. Maybe the purpose is to get people thinking about details and information about which they were not aware. Also, memories might triggered about an incident, something seen or heard, courage could be kindled and helpful information heretofore unspoken could be transmitted to LE. Wouldn't that be nice.

 

[scotgirl]

I see what you're saying Trino but i really have grave doubts that rehabillitation is possible with these kinds of people, it's just that as a society we feel we have to try to treat and eliminate the cause of the offending rather than just locking everyone up. It's a noble idea but as to how effective it is i'm not sure.

 

[ELOCsoul]

We know not all police are arrogant, not all community members are resigned and don't care, not all agencies entrusted with oversight are on the slap on the back and handshake dole, and not everyone who could help has had his/her allegiance bought in some way. Certainly Stearns county is far from being the only locale in which various trust issues with certain entities are to be had.

If one is an advocate for a family who has not been and continues to not be treated with sufficient consideration, disdain and cynicism can set in. I have often felt this way in the Guimond case. I can speak for myself and say that many of the roads I've traveled (figuratively speaking) in this region have not been productive -- or positive. So what are the options? Stand behind an unmoving wall of silence and take it like a man, or find another route to knowledge? Sit mute on the sidelines with feigned hope that the truth is forthcoming? I respect authority, but I also am of the mind that authority is not omnipotent. Sometimes the citizenry must engage in a methodical, appropriate way to find answers, when little to none have been forthcoming. (all my opinion only)

I am grateful for ELOC's extensive efforts in researching and writing his forthcoming book about Jacob's case. I admit to being concerned about whether the public at large will be able to discern who is who due to fictional names -- but -- maybe that's not the key here. Maybe the purpose is to get people thinking about details and information about which they were not aware. Also, memories might triggered about an incident, something seen or heard, courage could be kindled and helpful information heretofore unspoken could be transmitted to LE. Wouldn't that be nice.

My intentions, exactly!! If the Paynesville cases were forgotten, what else may have been??

 

[Trackergd]

A very, very sweeping statement to be made about police leadership when you have not meet them. But, I believe that there is some truth to it.

I have communicated with a large number of LE departments over the last 40 some odd years and they do talk about each other, even more so at local levels and between districts within the same state. Must make for some uncomfortable moments at State and County/Parish Chiefs Meetings. You never get the dirt directly from the subject, just like you never get the dirt from the family of the person you are looking for, it comes out from other sources in time. Getting intel about a department I am going to or are working with helps me to be more effective in my mission. Goes to knowing the culture of the land you are in, as it were.

 

[Sasquatch321]

If Jared has a certainty that his man is in Moose lake, what does this mean for Jacobs case? Either we have also now found Jacobs abductor, or if not, the whole coincidence of "run, dont look back or I'll shoot" becomes completely dismantled and the arrow points even harder at Feeney, Kevin, and Rassier.

 

[nmogren]

I have to wonder how accurately Jared is able to remember the perp decades later. It seems the optimum time would have been closer to the crime. But he was so young and in shock -- it's possible he blocked parts of the nightmare out, to the point where getting an accurate portrayal of the perp might have been difficult.

It's also challenging for us to have a clear grasp on why POI's were seemingly eliminated as potential suspects since we don't know LE's specific reasons for eliminating them.

Jared stated that some POIs were just released for lack of concrete evidence.


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[human]

Re: MN Sex Offender Program

Without a doubt, there are creeps at Moose Lake, and I am not, at all, defending them. However, somehow WS'ers are failing to realize that MN is not the only state with sex offenders. Every state, of course, has them, and every other state has a treatment program, which includes release.

If you follow the current case, this is a FEDERAL case which has to do treatment which almost never releases anyone. And, yes, there is an offender who was incarcerated in 2009 for acts committed when he was between the ages of 10 and 14 (Eric Terhaar). He was a juvenile committed to an adult facility. There was, until recently, one female housed with the men. As of 2014, according to a federally appointed panel, there are 62 persons that should be eligible for release. Note that this would not be a massive release of all sex offenders in MN, which appears to be frightening the public.

When you think logically, there are 700 committed, and hardly any offender has ever been released. I am not in defense of releasing all of these offenders, but one must admit that perhaps in all the years of the program's existence, more than two or three have successfully completed treatment and should be given a chance. The program is set up like treatment w/o ever allowing anyone to leave.

Other states do not do this so maybe it's better to see the larger picture, since it is a federal case.

http://www.mprnews.org/story/2015/02/06/court-case-changes-sex-offender-program

Um, no.

Do the victims get release?

As a teacher, I saw students who to this day years later are traumatized, some to continue to be victimizers themselves.

The monsters give a life sentence to their victims.

When someone drinks and drives, which is not OK, and they hit a tree and become paralyzed, there is no do over. When a sex offender chooses to molest, too bad. There should be no do over .

And I do not care what other states do. Other states have horrible education systems, for instance. Should we start emulating that , too?

 

[shergal]

Just listened to Joy and Jared. Sounds like Jared has done a lot of work in therapy. I wish he would have said more about two logical questions;
1) why didn't you recognize DAH in the lineups or through police questioning earlier?
2) if you were the same age as most the Paynesville victims (300-400) and went to the same school, why didn't you know anything about it?

Finally, I can't wait for the Dan and Kevin podcast! She is definitely trying to build a media profile.

I wondered about that second question also. It was in the papers at the time. LE warned parents to not let their kids out alone after dark. How could you have missed all that if you were living there and the same age as boys being attacked?

 

[nmogren]

I wondered about that second question also. It was in the papers at the time. LE warned parents to not let their kids out alone after dark. How could you have missed all that if you were living there and the same age as boys being attacked?

Jared lived in Cold Spring when he was attacked, the family later moved to Paynesville to get away from the site, but I believe by that time it was years after the attacks there so they may not have known anything about it.


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[human]

Jared lived in Cold Spring when he was attacked, the family later moved to Paynesville to get away from the site, but I believe by that time it was years after the attacks there so they may not have known anything about it.


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It is so strange. If that happened to your child, wouldn't you be worried he was going to come after your child? Or at least wouldn't you be watching everything to see if the puke could be found?

 

[human]

Jared stated that some POIs were just released for lack of concrete evidence.


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Tthat is so strange, as well. There had to be a ton of information on Jared. But DNA did not start being used until 1989 so maybe there was nothing they could use? But criminals got convicted before DNA. So I do not get it

 

[chaplain1]

Jared lived in Cold Spring when he was attacked, the family later moved to Paynesville to get away from the site, but I believe by that time it was years after the attacks there so they may not have known anything about it.


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It was four years, by no means a lifetime. Joy has attacks cataloged in 89 too, I think--on phone

 

[Trackergd]

If Jared has a certainty that his man is in Moose lake, what does this mean for Jacobs case? Either we have also now found Jacobs abductor, or if not, the whole coincidence of "run, dont look back or I'll shoot" becomes completely dismantled and the arrow points even harder at Feeney, Kevin, and Rassier.

I can't help but agree with this.

 

[shergal]

One thing I didn't understand in the podcast. If Joy and Jared are convinced the perp was DAH, then why did they keep mentioning being afraid because the perp was still out there? Joy mentioned "the Paynesville attacker is still out there" and how she was scared for Jared and herself. But DAH has been locked up at Moose Lake for years. So, some discrepancy there, IMO.

 

[Trackergd]

A very, very sweeping statement to be made about police leadership when you have not meet them. But, I believe that there is some truth to it.

I wish to clarify a bit on my last response to this. It may not be corruption or sexual misconduct on the part of LE, it is very possible it is the threat of loss of favor with the church, kids not getting into Catholic School or College or outright excommunication in the extreme, lest we forget the power the Catholic Church welds within the community. There have been so many examples of this, it has even been illustrated in TV crime shows and sitcoms like Law and Order where Stabler was pressured by the Bishop not to report a molestation incident. It's a little hard to ignore the influence.

 

[human]

O

One thing I didn't understand in the podcast. If Joy and Jared are convinced the perp was DAH, then why did they keep mentioning being afraid because the perp was still out there? Joy mentioned "the Paynesville attacker is still out there" and how she was scared for Jared and herself. But DAH has been locked up at Moose Lake for years. So, some discrepancy there, IMO.

Seriously, what in the heck???

 

[chaplain1]

I wish to clarify a bit on my last response to this. It may not be corruption or sexual misconduct on the part of LE, it is very possible it is the threat of loss of favor with the church, kids not getting into Catholic School or College or outright excommunication in the extreme, lest we forget the power the Catholic Church welds within the community. There have been so many examples of this, it has even been illustrated in TV crime shows and sitcoms like Law and Order where Stabler was pressured by the Bishop not to report a molestation incident. It's a little hard to ignore the influence.

I have found this true everywhere. Well said.

I have yet to understand what they would have had to lose in prosecuting DAH somewhere in his 300-400 attacks, he is most definitely not an elite (unless the cops were all Nam vets). I tend to believe he was a groomer of victims with low social status.

 

[Fukiyama]

I wish to clarify a bit on my last response to this. It may not be corruption or sexual misconduct on the part of LE, it is very possible it is the threat of loss of favor with the church, kids not getting into Catholic School or College or outright excommunication in the extreme, lest we forget the power the Catholic Church welds within the community. There have been so many examples of this, it has even been illustrated in TV crime shows and sitcoms like Law and Order where Stabler was pressured by the Bishop not to report a molestation incident. It's a little hard to ignore the influence.

I have to disagree with this a little. Others in the parish may be upset by seeing someone rock the boat and your idea of those in power at a school or college possibly holding a grudge after seeing a friend/colleague sent to jail is very very possible, but something official like excommunication isn't going to happen. That stuff is on TV only.

If you can show someone who has been excommunicated for cooperating with police, I'm all ears.

 

[chaplain1]

I have to disagree with this a little. Others in the parish may be upset by seeing someone rock the boat and your idea of those in power at a school or college possibly holding a grudge after seeing a friend/colleague sent to jail is very very possible, but something official like excommunication isn't going to happen. That stuff is on TV only.

If you can show someone who has been excommunicated for cooperating with police, I'm all ears.

There would possibly be some priests that did not honor the seal of confession, but performing a gay marriage or a Bishop ordaining a female priest would be the most likely excommunications. As a lifelong Catholic, no one I know has ever been fearful of excommunication.