MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #3

[concentric]

Here's another thing I've been thinking about all the way through this. Let's say the perp. is someone who knew the parents of DR, and knew that they were away in Europe, as I have suggested earlier. Is it possible the perp. thought there was no one at the farm that night and no reason to worry that anyone would see him, oblivious to the fact that DR was there. And, in turn DR, oblivious that the perp. was there. Therefore, the perp. thought he had no worries, until the boys got home, and figured that would take X amount of minutes, plus factor in the time to alert parents/authorities. This would give him ample time.

 

[concentric]

Or, let's say that DR wasn't the kidnapper, which would make his statement about not being involved in the act of abduction true. However, that doesn't mean he couldn't be involved with another person in facilitating or allowing this to happen.

We have no idea about the number of people involved.

 

[shergal]

Jogging for the better part of the day? Which part(s) and why!? Was this his normal pattern?

You're 33 years old. Your parents are gone on a trip to Europe. You have the place to yourself. Would you really spend the whole day jogging? Or would you be out jogging past a polka fest and around the area to see if you could see anything or anyone interesting? Unless this guy was a total hermit, you'd think he might have been out scoping out any possible fun activity. Or just listening to the music since he was a music teacher.

And maybe he did see something that seemed odd later, but then why hasn't he been more forthcoming about it in interviews? To me, if I was innocent and constantly being accused of something I didn't do, I'd be shouting from the rooftops who else I saw out and about that day. (I'm not buying his claim that he didn't want to warn the real perp after this many years.)

If LE heard his claims (and he says he told them what he witnessed) they must have researched them and ruled them out by now.

 

[shergal]

If the dog lost the scent because of the dryness of the ground then I don't think the only place to carry him would be the farmhouse. Could the perp. have carried him through the woods to another road?

Didn't the boys say that the man was taking Jacob toward a wooded area?

Yes, and if you look at a google map with DR's parent's address, most of the woods around there are on the same side of the road as the farm, and out behind the farm. Here's the address to plug into google maps: 29748-91st Ave. St. Joseph, MN

It looks to be quite a way to any roads at all going east through the woods. I suppose someone strong could knock Jacob out and carry him through the woods to a car back on a road way out there, but it would be quite a walk.

 

[Lotus]

Yes, and if you look at a google map with DR's parent's address, most of the woods around there are on the same side of the road as the farm, and out behind the farm. Here's the address to plug into google maps: 29748-91st Ave. St. Joseph, MN

It looks to be quite a way to any roads at all going east through the woods. I suppose someone strong could knock Jacob out and carry him through the woods to a car back on a road way out there, but it would be quite a walk.

Also, a lot of the streets and houses around the farm were not even there in 1989.

 

[human]

I actually was there on site the weekend after it happened.

Because of that, I know what the area looked like.

From the Tom thumb to the edge of the DR property, there were houses. Not real close together, but not very far apart. Just some more space than a typical suburban lot.

Then there was NOTHING but the DR property. Nothing.

There is no way someone could have run through the yards ahead of the boys.

There is no way a car could have passed them on the way there or on the way back without them noticing. This was a very narrow dirt road.

So where did this perp come from?

The perp had to be there .

So who is the perp? How did the perp know that the boys would be returning?

He may have not known for sure, but he was prepared in case they did.

 

[Trino]

Yes, and if you look at a google map with DR's parent's address, most of the woods around there are on the same side of the road as the farm, and out behind the farm. Here's the address to plug into google maps: 29748-91st Ave. St. Joseph, MN

It looks to be quite a way to any roads at all going east through the woods. I suppose someone strong could knock Jacob out and carry him through the woods to a car back on a road way out there, but it would be quite a walk.

Unless there was more than one person.

Wouldn't DR have struggled with J, too? If he walked him to the house, wouldn't footprints have been visible somewhere? That's a long driveway to carry someone.

 

[Lotus]

Unless there was more than one person.

Wouldn't DR have struggled with J, too? If he walked him to the house, wouldn't footprints have been visible somewhere? That's a long driveway to carry someone.

It would have been quicker/easier to pick J up and walk off the driveway and cut through the grass and into the house instead of walking the whole length of the driveway IMO.

 

[margaret_diane]

My theory is the police keeping going back to DR because they have no other place to go. I totally agree that there could have been a car somewhere the terrified boys didn't notice. Or, the perp could have walked J before they got into a car.

Logically, DR is an educated man. Certainly, if he abducted J, he would not have kept him on the property. If DR didn't leave that night, and dogs only traced J's scent minimally onto the property, it seems to me there is a very reasonable possibility that DR is not involved.

As previous said, if the police came to my door at night looking for a lost child, I don't think I would leave my home at night and search. DR chose that path, which has been highly criticized, but IMO that's the job of the police. Who would want to be out at night with LE possibly pointing guns at you? DR has said if LE had searched his house that night, this would all be over.

It also seems that a man cannot live with his parents anymore w/o criticism, which is unfortunate because I have a friend in his fifties who has never left his mother's home. He's not gay. He's social. He just lives with his mom.

My view is Stearns Co Sheriff is ruining DR's life. DR doesn't (and hasn't) had an attorney, yet he's been interviewed several times.

I'm wondering what makes you think that LE would have their guns pointing at you if you were out searching with them? I think I'm just seeking clarification - did you mean this literally or figuratively or both? Forgive me, but without the benefit of being able to see you face to face, the statement lacks the context which might have otherwise been provided by your facial expression, body language and tone of voice. How do you mean their guns would be aimed at you?

In regards to living with his parents, I don't think he has to (or should have to) justify this to anyone! If the set up works for that family, then I don't see what the big deal is. Sure it goes against the social norms, but I don't think this speaks to any criminal behaviour, any more than I would say that NOT living with one's parents would lend itself to a LACK of criminal behavior! I wonder how many serial murderers lived with their parents at the time of their crimes, or in the years following?

In regards to ruining one's life...... It seems to me that at this point, DR might do well to hire both a lawyer, and a spokesperson! Each time he talks to the media what he says leaves people wondering more and more... much like when he has talked to police, his answers have left LE uncomfortable (thats a loose quote from previous articles I've read, which I will find and cite should anyone require a reference for this). Getting a lawyer might be useful because a lawyer could advise the family what their legal rights and responsibilities are in this matter, and might be able to apply pressure to Le to investigate other leads, even those that might stem from whatever DR saw/heard etc earlier during that day, and in the days leading up to the abduction. This guy could just be a shy fellow, and have a difficult time articulating his thoughts in an easy, sincere manner -- a spokesperson with experience dealing with the media might really assist him in this task.

 

[margaret_diane]

Couldn't he get one? I would seriously consider it if my ife was being unfairly ruined and I can't imagine that he hasn't considered it. He's employed and has an income so maybe it's just a choice.

Where I'm from, teachers are allowed legal consults (for sure with Family Lawyers, not sure in criminal matters) with actual lawyers -- its part of their collective benefits package. I wonder if his employer offers such a program, and whether he might even consider obtaining a consult? Just a thought.

 

[margaret_diane]

That seems to me to be such a huge risk, but clearly there was someone willing to take a big risk. Allowing two boys to run meant that the perpetrator was certain he could get away in a very short time before the police arrived.

Snipped with respect by me for clarity.

You make a great point! The perp HAD to be familiar with the area in order to know he would have time to get away before help arrived, after letting the other two boys go!!

This means:
- He must have known the boys did NOT live at DR's farm. Had he known that, he might have been more worried parents were home, or babysitter etc. He may not have known WHERE they lived, but he knew it wasn't THERE.
- HOW did he KNOW that? There is no other home PAST DR's farm. The next stop up the road was a distance away and it was the store the boys went to.
- So the perp had to KNOW that once released, they'd run a good distance to A home, ANY home, even if not THEIR home. HOW did he know that? He must have known the area very well.

- Could the perp have known that DR was home alone that night? Was he an opportunist? Did he think that it was likely that DR would end up being the prime suspect given it was his property, and given that he was home alone? How ballsy was the perp -- given that DR was home and MIGHT have seen something? Did he think DR was NOT home (out running, away, etc?). Should DR have been elsewhere at the time (at a friends etc?).

The perp was confident that this could happen at the end of someone's long driveway, and that he could
a) attack 3 boys
b) have time to have them lie down, roll them over, look at faces and ask their ages
c) tell them to run
d) complete the abduction --

ALL before the police arrived on the scene! This guy KNEW the kids were going to race to alert police -- and he still let them go, and found a way out of there with Jacob (?) without being caught!!?

I'd say someone knew the area and DR's schedule / routines (maybe he always went to bed around 9-10pm?) and took the opportunity as it presented itself.

I'd still like to know where DR's other family were that night, and friends. And I'd like to know more about what DR saw going on around him in regards to polka dancing that day leading up to the abduction? Did he see someone photographing kids randomly? Did he overhear some discussion? Did he see a car at the dance hall that matched the one he claims he saw in his driveway?

 

[margaret_diane]

Just wondering -- when the sweatsock was found in the time following abduction (not sure how long after!) -- HOW was it found?

Did a searcher find it? What condition was it in? Very clean, very dirty? Been in the weather awhile... wet? Dry?

When it was found, was it thought to belong to Jacob? Why? Which DIRECTION was the toe pointing in? Was it in a ball? Laid out flat, Crinkled up? Did the dogs come and sniff the area again??

was this prooven to belong to Jacob or ruled out as his?
Was it forensically tested for transfer evidence (Locard's Theory of Transfer). I hope these steps were taken then, but if not, then I hope they go back and double check that damn sock! Even transfer evidence on that sock (bits of dirt, leaves, gravel) etc might help identify where it was in the moments / days before it was located!!

Thats a decent clue, if forensics can figure out if it was Jacob's, and how long it was likely to have lay where it was discovered!! Please LE, if you're reading, we all want to help -- a little more information released might really help solve this! We work better as a team when we're all sharing the same info!!

Hey -- a girl can dream, can't she?

 

[margaret_diane]

(Snipped by me for this portion.)

Do you have a link stating that DR passed his polygraph? I have never seen that stated - only him stating that he did a polygraph. I don't believe LE has ever said whether he passed or not. This could be why he's still a POI.

Also, on your theory of a car being further up the drive and rolling or driving back down, this isn't possible, because they have photos of Jacob's last footprint facing into DR's property on his road, and it's all alone with only Kevin's (the car that pulled in and turned around) tire prints next to it. No other tire prints coming out of the driveway from further up. You can view this photo here on WS in earlier threads on Jacob.

I would like to see those photos - and will look for those shortly (thanks for letting us know of their availability!).

I wonder if Kevin's car then might have destroyed other prints that might have been evident prior to his arrival?

 

[margaret_diane]

You're 33 years old. Your parents are gone on a trip to Europe. You have the place to yourself. Would you really spend the whole day jogging? Or would you be out jogging past a polka fest and around the area to see if you could see anything or anyone interesting? Unless this guy was a total hermit, you'd think he might have been out scoping out any possible fun activity. Or just listening to the music since he was a music teacher.

And maybe he did see something that seemed odd later, but then why hasn't he been more forthcoming about it in interviews? To me, if I was innocent and constantly being accused of something I didn't do, I'd be shouting from the rooftops who else I saw out and about that day. (I'm not buying his claim that he didn't want to warn the real perp after this many years.)

If LE heard his claims (and he says he told them what he witnessed) they must have researched them and ruled them out by now.

Hey, I'm in my 30's... and honestly, I live a dull life -- I'm not normally out looking for fun, or a party! Typically, I'm home tidying up, doing laundry, maybe on the internet (me? the internet? nooo? really? who knew!? LOL). I don't think that his actions that day so far are cause for concern (the jogging part -- since he was as Trino reminded me, a marathon runner).

I think though that I too would be screaming about any other possible lead if i were innocent, and I'd be getting a damn good lawyer to FORCE police to investigate any other lead, even one I'd provided! Infact, I'd be demanding them to proove they'd exhausted my lead!! I'd be a lot more vocal than DR is being / has been....

Now with that said... i'm not DR. and I've no idea what its like to live his life every day since this crime happened! I have no real concept of what he saw / heard / experienced in the time leading to the crime, or what he has shared with police. No idea either what steps he has taken to ensure that other information was followed up with (if any!).

In regards to his journal -- is it that strange really? We around here obsess over this case (some of us... ok maybe just me....lol)... check in daily for new info, or new ideas / discussion regarding this case. I bet some of us know the timeline as well as or better than some of the LE who have worked this case live!! I wonder if there are others in his community who also have saved the clippings etc. I guess I do wonder which clippings he kept, and how come though. Were some more significant to him than others? Why?

Once again I wish we had more information!!

 

[margaret_diane]

Yes, and if you look at a google map with DR's parent's address, most of the woods around there are on the same side of the road as the farm, and out behind the farm. Here's the address to plug into google maps: 29748-91st Ave. St. Joseph, MN

It looks to be quite a way to any roads at all going east through the woods. I suppose someone strong could knock Jacob out and carry him through the woods to a car back on a road way out there, but it would be quite a walk.

Ok, so maybe not a car? Maybe an ATV 4 wheeler thing? Maybe some other motorized vehicle? ATVs are common in farmland -- my parents lived on a 100 acre farm, we had two at one point... and I think most in the area had them.....?? Sure, they're noisy, but I don't recall hearing it loudly once it was about 100 feet away?? could the getaway vehicle have been... a tractor? A rider mower?? Why does it have to be a car...?? Just wondering out loud again.

 

[margaret_diane]

Still pondering...
No car...
How about a farm animal as the means of getaway? A horse? Donkey? Camel? Llama?
Do we know if DR's family had livestock? If so, what kind? Were any unaccounted for at the time of the crime? Bet no one thought to ask / check that one out at at the time -- they were busy looking for JW...!!

I'm trying to think outside the box here -- but how impossible would it be to use a horse as the means to getaway? Or another animal? Perhaps even from a neighboring farm? Anyone else in the area have livestock?

Come on LE...humor me! Could livestock have been the means to get away to a car waiting somewhere?? Or a tractor or ATV? Anyone have any thoughts on this??

 

[margaret_diane]

Does anyone have a link to where I can view the photo of Jacob's footprint at the scene of the crime? I checked around, but came up empty (some sleuther eh?). I googled it, and couldn't find it there either... thanks in advance.

 

[human]

Where I'm from, teachers are allowed legal consults (for sure with Family Lawyers, not sure in criminal matters) with actual lawyers -- its part of their collective benefits package. I wonder if his employer offers such a program, and whether he might even consider obtaining a consult? Just a thought.

I think the only way he could get an attorney would be as a member of a teacher's union.

Then he could get an attorney to defend him against any charges brought because of his actions as an employee.

My understanding is that a teacher gets an attorney through the union, but if the teacher is found guilty, the teacher pays out of pocket.

 

[shergal]

Does anyone have a link to where I can view the photo of Jacob's footprint at the scene of the crime? I checked around, but came up empty (some sleuther eh?). I googled it, and couldn't find it there either... thanks in advance.

I did try locating it again earlier and couldn't find it, but I've run into it a few times. It's on here somewhere - altho search didn't help me, and it's on one of those big major sites about Jacob that had the photos and maps of the area and comments from Patty, Aaron, etc. I'm thinking it was a Twin Cities link - Mpls. Tribune, maybe? I'll search some more. It was a really clear picture of his shoe print in the sand and the tire track ending right next to it, so Kevin could very well have driven over whatever other prints were there.

 

[shergal]

I did try locating it again earlier and couldn't find it, but I've run into it a few times. It's on here somewhere - altho search didn't help me, and it's on one of those big major sites about Jacob that had the photos and maps of the area and comments from Patty, Aaron, etc. I'm thinking it was a Twin Cities link - Mpls. Tribune, maybe? I'll search some more. It was a really clear picture of his shoe print in the sand and the tire track ending right next to it, so Kevin could very well have driven over whatever other prints were there.

Still looking for the shoe print, but I did locate the other crime scene photos I remembered here:
http://www.sctimes.com/section/wetterling

(click on "on the scene" and then click on "abduction site" on the map pictured) There are also pictures of the dogs searching and LE making the footprint mold under "Timeline." But there is a better footprint pic.
I'll have to search some more tomorrow for the footprint.