MN - Jacob Wetterling, 11, St. Joseph, 22 Oct 1989 - #3

[shergal]

NEW IDEAS:
- > What if.... what if someone at the party the Wetterlings attended overheard (or was told by the parents) that JW and his brother and friend were going to be riding their bikes to rent a video that evening? Did anyone leave that party early? Did anyone make a phone call from the party to anyone else in the area, and tip off our perp (any perp) that the kids would be at such and such a place at such and such a time? Did someone knowingly or unknowingly (in idle conversation) set these kids up as sitting ducks?
- > I'd like to know if LE ever checked the guests from the party to see who was there, who left early, and the phone records of calls made OUT of that residence that evening? that might (have) been a very interesting way to go with endless possibilities for suspects, or those assisting (knowingly or not) a suspect. Were party guests interviewed regarding who they talked to during the party and about what??

IDEA TWO:
- > Is it POSSIBLE that the Wetterling's telephone line was somehow bugged in the days / weeks / hours prior to abduction? Could Someone have been listening in and known where the kids were going to be at which time that night? I read an article recently wherein Patty noted that she was mad at Jerry for a long time for letting the boys go, but then realized they didn't know whether it would have happened anyhow, even if the kids had been IN the house at that time. She implied (in my view) her family / the kids could have been stalked.

IDEA THREE:
- > what if Aaron was the intended target? What if someone was watching HIM or HIS family? Did his family have anyone in their lives to be concerned about? Was there anyone we should be concerned about from HIS life? Just a thought.

Have to go, having a movie night with my family tonight, but just thought I'd post my ideas out there for debate. Thanks in advance for considering them, no matter how crazy they might seem -- stranger things can and have happened.

On idea 3, in that interview with Aaron, he said himself he wondered for a long time if he was the intended target. He and Jacob were both 11, both blonde. I always wondered why the perp would let Aaron go after only hearing his age - it implies to me that the perp knew Jacob's voice and that that wasn't it.
Also, on Jacob screaming or not. If you read that part about Aaron after they got back to the Wetterling's house and how he was crouched in a corner in the kitchen between 2 cupboards scared to death and totally quiet - think how much more frightened Jacob would have been since he was the one taken. he was probably too scared to say anything.

 

[Donjeta]

http://www.immelman.us/news/jacob-wetterling-rassier-search/

snipped bits and pieces of the transcript:

Trish Van Pilsum: “Did you have anything to do with Jacob’s disappearance?”

The Man: “I didn’t have anything to do with it.”

The Man: “They needed to check me out. They said they had to check me out.”

The Man: “That morning when I left, I had a car full of …”

Trish Van Pilsum: “Boxes. Big boxes.”

The Man: “… and they never looked in my car. I mean it was that bad.”

They searched his property, too. But not until five days later.

The Man: “They didn’t come in the house that night. It could have been over with.”

The Man: “I’m not worried. I’m thinking they’re going to figure out I couldn’t, I wouldn’t have been able to do something like that.”

Investigators questioned him as recently as two weeks ago, February 7th [2004]. They took a sample of his DNA. Five days later they questioned his family and searched his computer files at home.

The Man: “I just have to hope they make sense out of it and not wreck my life.”

Remember he is the witness who placed a car at the scene. Later that night he heard a commotion. It was the search and it was in his yard. He went back to bed.

Trish Van Pilsum: “Why would you go to bed when a kid had just disappeared?”

The Man: “I wanted to get some sleep. I wasn’t going to waste my time.”

The man FOX 9 talked with may never be connected with the Jacob Wetterling kidnapping case.

These quotes are interesting to me. I notice that the only time he says he didn't do it is in direct reply to the reporter's straight question and he just copies her words. He repeats himself when he says the police had to check him out which makes it look like a sensitive issue. First he says they needed to check him out, then adds or corrects himself that this is what they said they had to do. They should really have done a bit more checking whether he did it or not.

When he talks about leaving that morning his sentence trails off and the reporter has to supply the words big boxes, and it makes me wonder what he really had his car full of. Then he says the police never came to his house that night and it could have been over with. Wonder just what he was thinking about. Did he take Jacob to his house?

When he says he's not worried the police are going to figure out it's not him, he doesn't say that they're going to figure out he didn't do it, he says they're going to figure out that he couldn't or wouldn't do something like that which is not the same thing at all if you go by statement analysis principles.

Then he hopes that the police make sense out of it and do not wreck his life. This might have been a good time to hope that they find Jacob and the person who really did it but he doesn't, his thoughts are centered on his own life being wrecked by these suspicions. It might be natural to be most concerned for oneself and not so much for the victim or closure for the family but an innocent person would have selfish reasons as well for wanting them to catch the real perp because that's really the only thing that could definitely clear him 14 years later after a haphazard initial investigation. Just hoping that the police are going to realize that he's a good guy who wouldn't do it isn't going to cut it.

The comment about sleep and not wanting to waste his time is very cold and unconcerned. How did he know the search was going to be a waste of time?

 

[Trino]

I don't know if it's just me, or is there a resemblance between DR and the cold spring perp sketch?

Snipped...


Lotus, see private message. The sketches are no longer valid, although they are still online everywhere.

http://www.sctimes.com/section/wetterling
Look under Suspect Sketches.

 

[Trino]

http://www.immelman.us/news/jacob-wetterling-rassier-search/

snipped bits and pieces of the transcript:

These quotes are interesting to me. I notice that the only time he says he didn't do it is in direct reply to the reporter's straight question and he just copies her words. He repeats himself when he says the police had to check him out which makes it look like a sensitive issue. First he says they needed to check him out, then adds or corrects himself that this is what they said they had to do. They should really have done a bit more checking whether he did it or not.

When he talks about leaving that morning his sentence trails off and the reporter has to supply the words big boxes, and it makes me wonder what he really had his car full of. Then he says the police never came to his house that night and it could have been over with. Wonder just what he was thinking about. Did he take Jacob to his house?

When he says he's not worried the police are going to figure out it's not him, he doesn't say that they're going to figure out he didn't do it, he says they're going to figure out that he couldn't or wouldn't do something like that which is not the same thing at all if you go by statement analysis principles.

Then he hopes that the police make sense out of it and do not wreck his life. This might have been a good time to hope that they find Jacob and the person who really did it but he doesn't, his thoughts are centered on his own life being wrecked by these suspicions. It might be natural to be most concerned for oneself and not so much for the victim or closure for the family but an innocent person would have selfish reasons as well for wanting them to catch the real perp because that's really the only thing that could definitely clear him 14 years later after a haphazard initial investigation. Just hoping that the police are going to realize that he's a good guy who wouldn't do it isn't going to cut it.

The comment about sleep and not wanting to waste his time is very cold and unconcerned. How did he know the search was going to be a waste of time?

DR did not say the search was going to be a waste of time. He said he did not want to waste his time. Different statements.

I may be incorrect re: boxes for festival. However, it was DR who stated he had big boxes in his car that were never checked. The police did not say this. In fact, they may not have even realized it.

The para-professional assigned to DR's classroom has been removed.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S1765250.shtml?cat=0

 

[margaret_diane]

DR did not say the search was going to be a waste of time. He said he did not want to waste his time. Different statements.

I may be incorrect re: boxes for festival. However, it was DR who stated he had big boxes in his car that were never checked. The police did not say this. In fact, they may not have even realized it.

The para-professional assigned to DR's classroom has been removed.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S1765250.shtml?cat=0

I have added bold, colored red and italicized one important word in the above quote (with respect) for clarity.

If you watch the video with the female reporter talking to DR in this link,

http://www.immelman.us/news/jacob-wetterling-rassier-search/

...and listen to the interview closely, you will hear (and read, since its transcribed on the screen), exactly what DR said. Specifically, I want to point out that DR did not say he did not want to waste his time. He said he wasn't going waste time. Not going to waste time at all, period! I feel this difference is very important!! It wasn't that he didn't want to waste HIS time -- so WHO'S time did he not want to waste?

I can ask this in other more open ended ways to help illustrate my point:
-> What would have been a waste of time?
-> What about assisting in the search would have been a waste of time?

I'm not saying he is guilty. But, perhaps it was his OWN time he did not want to waste that evening? This could be true if Jacob were in his home, or on the property at all -- perhaps in another building locked and hidden away?

If police only searched the OUTSIDE of the property, and did not enter buildings on the property (did they?) then the statement COULD mean DR was busy doing something to / with JW that searching (pretending to search), would have detracted from.

I cannot fathom how awful it could have been for Jacob, this experience as a whole! I have wondered if he was nearby, did he HEAR investigators out looking for him, but was unable to provide them any assistance via shouting, or any other action that would give away his whereabouts? What if JW was sitting in the farmhouse somewhere the whole time, and LE missed him because they failed to search that house?

Of course, its unlikely. A smart kidnapper would KNOW that police were coming. And if the kidnapper lived in the house at the end of the driveway from where the kid disappeared from, he'd expect police to come to his door immediately and begin asking questions! So would he REALLY have hidden this child in his home (even in state forcing the child's silence?). Wouldn't he be petrified the LE would find him in that home?

I'd like to know:
- > when police arrived, how did they discover that DR was home? Did they knock on his door?
-> What was his demeanor and physical appearance? What was he wearing?
- > Was he shocked? Surprised? Demonstrate any alarm or concern?
- > Did he give police permission to openly search any structure / building inside and out for this child? Was such permission even requested by police? If not, WHY THE HELL NOT?? And if they asked, and DR declined, why didn't police obtain a warrant on the spot while holding DR in a squad car?
->Where was his car that night? Did they even check for it, or look in it? If they noticed it, what shape was it in? Any marks on it to be concerned about? Where is that car NOW?? Can this car be tracked down?? I doubt they'd find anything of evidence in it if they could find it, but all it takes is one microscopic shred of DNA from JW to definitively tie DR to the abduction (unless he has some other good reason why they would find JW's DNA in that car?)
-> Did DR have an ATV at the time? Where was it that night? What shape was it in? Where is it now (again, IF he had one at the time?).

Again I ask,
-> what about DR assisting in a search would have been a waste of time? And who's time would it have wasted specifically??

 

[human]

Trino, I have read your posts of the past as you seem to have a lot of information.

It appears way back,, that you felt DR was suspicious. Now you have changed your mind.

What made you change your mind.

 

[Trino]

Trino, I have read your posts of the past as you seem to have a lot of information.

It appears way back,, that you felt DR was suspicious. Now you have changed your mind.

What made you change your mind.

You are very correct. At that time, I had little to go on but the fact that DR seemed suspicious. However, he's never had an attorney, has been interviewed w/o charges three times, has given DNA, has been hypnotized, has welcomed the police onto the property, and has given media interviews. I see no reason he is involved.

DR, too, has criticized the SC sheriff/police, asking why didn't they initially THAT NIGHT ask to come inside the home, why didn't they search his parent's property and home (waited 5 days), why didn't they question the boxes he had in his car? (Would he really take J's body out in a box with police all over the place?)

I, as well as others, see an incompetent investigation. Now with two new investigators who pushed the latest investigation, Stearns Co wants to show they have solved the case. The recent warrants showed no evidence to incriminate DR. SC is saying they are keeping some items to further test, but you can sure there's nothing, or DR would be jailed.

I could, of course, be completely wrong. DR could be the culprit, but right now my feelings are that DR is being harrassed. If Stearns Co has no evidence, IMO they owe DR an apology and need to stop the POI incrimination. What they are saying is they have no evidence, but they think DR did it - reminiscent of the Elizabeth Smart case IMO.

 

[margaret_diane]

I'm still undecided about DR and whether he was involved in any way, shape or form. Regardless though, I do have sympathy for the fact that circumstances being what they are have caused a great deal of upheaval in his own life. I've said before that DR is essentially euchred. He can't proove that he had nothing to do with it (how could he, with no one to verify his alibi that he was home alone that night?), and police have been unable thus far to prove his involvement! Its a catch 22 for him.

I also agree investigators made many mistakes were made early on that could have severely impacted this case (eg: the guy Kevin who beat police to the scene, talked to a cop... and yet no record of his being there existed ---- meant they looked for a getaway car for 14 years before the guy came forward on his OWN!).

 

[Trino]

There are also postings implicating DR in the Cold Springs attack, which doesn't pan out IMO. The Cold Springs boy who was abducted and raped did not identify Rassier as his attacker. Note, his attacker did not wear a mask and they were together for 3 hours. Rassier was also a teacher in the school this boy attended. He described his assailant as a white man, 40 to 50 years old, about 5'8," wearing military-style fatigues and a baseball cap.

Also, neither J's brother nor friend have identified DR as the abductor.

 

[Donjeta]

DR did not say the search was going to be a waste of time. He said he did not want to waste his time. Different statements.

I may be incorrect re: boxes for festival. However, it was DR who stated he had big boxes in his car that were never checked. The police did not say this. In fact, they may not have even realized it.

The para-professional assigned to DR's classroom has been removed.
http://kstp.com/article/stories/S1765250.shtml?cat=0

I'll rephrase that. How did he know that his time would be wasted if he'd gotten involved in the search? For all he knew he could have been able to help find Jacob somehow.

 

[margaret_diane]

There are also postings implicating DR in the Cold Springs attack, which doesn't pan out IMO. The Cold Springs boy who was abducted and raped did not identify Rassier as his attacker. Note, his attacker did not wear a mask and they were together for 3 hours. Rassier was also a teacher in the school this boy attended. He described his assailant as a white man, 40 to 50 years old, about 5'8," wearing military-style fatigues and a baseball cap.

Also, neither J's brother nor friend have identified DR as the abductor.

Are we sure the Cold Spring boy saw the perp's face?! I read perp pulled the kids hat over his (kid's) face to ensure kid didn't see him? Am I mistaken?

 

[margaret_diane]

There are also postings implicating DR in the Cold Springs attack, which doesn't pan out IMO. The Cold Springs boy who was abducted and raped did not identify Rassier as his attacker. Note, his attacker did not wear a mask and they were together for 3 hours. Rassier was also a teacher in the school this boy attended. He described his assailant as a white man, 40 to 50 years old, about 5'8," wearing military-style fatigues and a baseball cap.

Also, neither J's brother nor friend have identified DR as the abductor.

Just out of curiosity, have any of the three boys said it ws NOT DR with any degree of certainty? Just wondering.

 

[margaret_diane]

I'll rephrase that. How did he know that his time would be wasted if he'd gotten involved in the search? For all he knew he could have been able to help find Jacob somehow.

Again I will point DR didn't say that to search would waste HIS time. He said he wasn't going to waste time. Period. Who's time? His? Jacob's? LE's? The perp (perhaps he knew or suspected someone And didn't want them caught for some reason?).

 

[Mandy113]

I live in a small town, quiet neighborhood. On the few occasions something has been going on resulting in police or ambulance calls ... it's not at all unusual to see people standing on their porches or the sidewalks watching (and some chatting) the activity.

It just strikes me as odd DR would go back to sleep knowing police & searchers were all over that farm & his family's property that night. He certainly wasn't required to do so, but I think most people would have been at least watching what was going on. But being odd in itself, proves nothing. The footsteps so abruptly ending and the dogs losing the scent ... where could he have gone? Some good theories have been presented here.

 

[human]

The thing that I just CANNOT comprehend is as a teacher, he had no interest in a child that was kidnapped on his driveway by a masked gunman.

That defies any logic .

 

[Trino]

Are we sure the Cold Spring boy saw the perp's face?! I read perp pulled the kids hat over his (kid's) face to ensure kid didn't see him? Am I mistaken?

One would think when the boy approached the car (perp asked directions) that the young man would have seen his face. He asked the boy if he recognized him.

 

[Trino]

I live in a small town, quiet neighborhood. On the few occasions something has been going on resulting in police or ambulance calls ... it's not at all unusual to see people standing on their porches or the sidewalks watching (and some chatting) the activity.

It just strikes me as odd DR would go back to sleep knowing police & searchers were all over that farm & his family's property that night. He certainly wasn't required to do so, but I think most people would have been at least watching what was going on. But being odd in itself, proves nothing. The footsteps so abruptly ending and the dogs losing the scent ... where could he have gone? Some good theories have been presented here.

There's no front porch, no sidewalks. The area was very rural. The house is situated at the end of a long drive - not really a place to stand and see what was going on.

Maybe at the time DR didn't realize the implications of the abduction. We don't know how much the police said to him when they came to his door.

 

[Mandy113]

Very true, we don't know what DR was told that night. I do realize this is a very rural area and neighbors would not be congregating & chatting about the events of that evening. I should have stated my point more clearly.

I was thinking about how I, or others I know, might react to in a similar situation. I simply meant to imply, DR's apparent lack of curiousity struck me as odd

While it may appear I know little about the area or this case, I have done considerable reading, looked at maps & watched many videos to learn what I can.

 

[Trino]

Just out of curiosity, have any of the three boys said it ws NOT DR with any degree of certainty? Just wondering.

Would it be logical if the boy in Cold Springs or the boys with J said it was DR that DR would have been arrested?

 

[human]

I live in a rural area almost exactly like DR. When the police come or there is a fire engine, people drive to see what is happening. And if one is stuck at home, neighbors call each other to see what they know about what is going on.

As far as Jared seeing the perp when he asked for directions, it's possible that the perp had some kind of disguise or a hat pulled down low.

As far as DR not hiring an attorney, attorneys cost a FORTUNE. DR strikes me as the kind of person who doesn't like to waste money.

After all, rather than spending money on rent or a mortgage, he lived with his parents.

That strikes me as a person who is extremely frugal.